The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[AK4]

Alright Ill think about it....actually you know what...why dont we start a new thread about this...cause to tell you the truth, id really like to discuss this with you. I've been hoping someone would like to.

What do you say?

Sure i dont mind

 

[AK4]

Sure i dont mind

yeah but let me post the new thread

 

[Heneni]

yeah but let me post the new thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/70314-rule-jesus.html

Too late lol. But you can start your own thread too. No worries.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I have never denied those things because they are true. The bible most certainly asserts that humans are thrown into the Lake of Fire, but it also states that the Lake was " Prepared for satan and his demons", not for humans. So I believe the reason for the Lake, is different for humans, as compared to what God is getting out of it for Demons.
Peace.

These are conlusions not based on tangible evidence but your own hope.

 

[mickiel]

These are conlusions not based on tangible evidence but your own hope.

Well yes, I agree, they are based on my hope, and my view of scripture. There is not much tangible evidence for there being a God, muchless that he will save everyone. There is physical evidence that there is a God, but many do not view the creation as evidence of a creator, so to them it is not tangible, just circumstancial evidence. I view scripture, which I have posted in this post, nearly 100 scriptures that I view as circumstancial evidence of the salvation of all.

But I am not trying to convince anyone, the evidence is to me personally, and I enjoy the hope it has given me for not only myself, but all of humanity.

Peace.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well yes, I agree, they are based on my hope, and my view of scripture. There is not much tangible evidence for there being a God, muchless that he will save everyone.
Peace.

I'm speaking of tangible Scriptural evidence.

 

[mickiel]

I'm speaking of tangible Scriptural evidence.

Well there is enough to suite me. In Matt. 25:41;"Jesus himself speaking;" Into the eternal fire which has been prepared FOR the devil and his Angels." This fate was prepared for the devil, reserved for the devil and created for the devil, not humans. Now what scriptures cancel out this fate for humans? In Ephesians 2:7;" In order that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his GRACE in kindness toward US in Jesus Christ." This is the future of all of humanity, to receive, without cost, the riches of Gods grace and kindness, not some eternal fate in hell.

Yet read 1:18, a humans eyes, or his mind, must be " Enlightened in order to know this Hope." Or their going to bank on there being a lava lake of eternal misery for many humans, which is a sick concept. Romans 5:18 cancels out an eternal hell. 1Tim.2:6 cancels it out. 1John 2:2 cancels it out. John 1:29 casncels it out. Acts 3:21 cancels it out. 1John 4:14 gets rid of hell, as does Col.1:20. Titus 2:11 contributes to this hope I have, as does 1Tim.4:10, 1 John 2:2 and 1Tim. 2:4.

These are the tangibles I trust in.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

What you think or I think about what God has decided is meaningless. Satan is not human, he is nuclear existance, why try to save destruction? Why try to change a bomb that was created to destroy. Your trying to give satan personality or emotion, as if he is a being worth saving. Is a roach worth saving? Is a slug worth giving eternal life? Is a maggot now something that our bleeding hearts must now ask God to give eternity to?

I wouldn't save a roach or a slug, you're right. But I wouldn't torture them for eternity either. That, to me, seems wrong. It is especially wrong if you believe what you believe, that Satan was created to do what he did. If Satan was just doing what you made him to do, why punish him forever?

Furthermore, the bible portrays Satan as having intelligence and knowledge. See the book of Job, where he converses with God about Job. So that elevates him above a roach or a slug. This isn't an insect we're dealing with here; he has rights. Even for the most heinous of criminals, I don't think that they should be tortured for the rest of their lives, let alone all eternity. The phrase "cruel and unusual" comes to mind.

So either you have to deny the bible or you have to admit that God is not a very nice guy. The argument, "It's only happening to Satan, not us, so why should we care" only works for sociopaths.

 

[AK4]

I wouldn't save a roach or a slug, you're right. But I wouldn't torture them for eternity either. That, to me, seems wrong. It is especially wrong if you believe what you believe, that Satan was created to do what he did. If Satan was just doing what you made him to do, why punish him forever?

Furthermore, the bible portrays Satan as having intelligence and knowledge. See the book of Job, where he converses with God about Job. So that elevates him above a roach or a slug. This isn't an insect we're dealing with here; he has rights. Even for the most heinous of criminals, I don't think that they should be tortured for the rest of their lives, let alone all eternity. The phrase "cruel and unusual" comes to mind.

So either you have to deny the bible or you have to admit that God is not a very nice guy. The argument, "It's only happening to Satan, not us, so why should we care" only works for sociopaths.

I agree, i wont defend satan, but God created Him for the specific purpose of being an adversary, the same way he created hitler and dalmer and the likes for their specific purpose. If God loves all His creation that would include his enemy satan and He told us to love our enemies so He must do the same.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well there is enough to suite me. In Matt. 25:41;"Jesus himself speaking;" Into the eternal fire which has been prepared FOR the devil and his Angels." This fate was prepared for the devil, reserved for the devil and created for the devil, not humans. Now what scriptures cancel out this fate for humans? In Ephesians 2:7;" In order that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his GRACE in kindness toward US in Jesus Christ." This is the future of all of humanity, to receive, without cost, the riches of Gods grace and kindness, not some eternal fate in hell.

Yet read 1:18, a humans eyes, or his mind, must be " Enlightened in order to know this Hope." Or their going to bank on there being a lava lake of eternal misery for many humans, which is a sick concept. Romans 5:18 cancels out an eternal hell. 1Tim.2:6 cancels it out. 1John 2:2 cancels it out. John 1:29 casncels it out. Acts 3:21 cancels it out. 1John 4:14 gets rid of hell, as does Col.1:20. Titus 2:11 contributes to this hope I have, as does 1Tim.4:10, 1 John 2:2 and 1Tim. 2:4.

These are the tangibles I trust in.

Peace.

Do you realize that you change subjects in mid-stream? Do you do this on purpose to deflect valid counterpoints or just because you may have exhausted your understanding of a topic and wish to move on?

 

[Heneni]

I agree, i wont defend satan, but God created Him for the specific purpose of being an adversary, the same way he created hitler and dalmer and the likes for their specific purpose. If God loves all His creation that would include his enemy satan and He told us to love our enemies so He must do the same.

So god creates the devil who roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may destroy and then tells us to love him. That would be called idolatory.

 

[mickiel]

The concept of eternal hell suffering is sick. It is evidence of a mind that has accepted a very perverted sickness. And whats more sick, is that there are people who believe that God is perverted and sick enough to torture people forever. With humans the whole head is sick and the heart faint, there is no soundness in our beliefs.

If you only had a concept of what eternity is like. Forever and ever, neverending. If you place any kind of continual punishing into eternity, that is insane. If you take a little small needle and stick a small portion of it into someones finger, it may sting for a second, but just think if you did it continually, every second of the day, and everyday of the week, on into a month and longer past a year, it would drive the person insane. If they could last a year. This is the perversion of continual pain for eternity.

Peace.

 

[AK4]

So god creates the devil who roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may destroy and then tells us to love him. That would be called idolatory.

Who ever said that?

 

[AK4]

The concept of eternal hell suffering is sick. It is evidence of a mind that has accepted a very perverted sickness. And whats more sick, is that there are people who believe that God is perverted and sick enough to torture people forever. With humans the whole head is sick and the heart faint, there is no soundness in our beliefs.

If you only had a concept of what eternity is like. Forever and ever, neverending. If you place any kind of continual punishing into eternity, that is insane. If you take a little small needle and stick a small portion of it into someones finger, it may sting for a second, but just think if you did it continually, every second of the day, and everyday of the week, on into a month and longer past a year, it would drive the person insane. If they could last a year. This is the perversion of continual pain for eternity.

Peace.

I couldnt have said it better. I dont understand people who would say a judge who gives a jay-walker a 5 year sentence in jail that the judge was unjust and that the jay-walker was overpunished, but when God judges someone for being timid and fearful for an eternity of torture its justice.

Even for the worst of people throughout history, an eternity of torture for sinning in but a vapor of time. Is that justice.

Hey Mickiel, did you see my post with the scenario of the GWT Judgement. Someone was saying this eternity in hell is justice and fair. So i gave a scenerio of it , with it being him or anyone else who believes in eternity of hell.

I have yet to get a response from it from anyone!!!......When they're "in the hot seat" its a different story.

 

[logician]

I think the concept of hell had more with keeping the poor satisfied with their lot, than anything else. Preachers could tell the poor that those sinners better off than them would suffer in hell for eternity, giving them some sort of satisfaction that there was some sort of ultimate justice.

Of course, I don't in a heaven or hell, I think they are illogical concepts.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Qura'n ch5 The table
[18] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)."

 

[Heneni]

If God loves all His creation that would include his enemy satan and He told us to love our enemies so He must do the same.

This is what you said.

Who ever said that?

You did? Or do you want to strike that from the record?

The only difference is that god does not listen to the devil, but if we listen to him he becomes our master and loving him would mean you commit idolatory.

 

[Heneni]

If we think hell is a sick concept here is another...


We would rather be ruined than change.

 

[Imagist]

I agree, i wont defend satan, but God created Him for the specific purpose of being an adversary, the same way he created hitler and dalmer and the likes for their specific purpose. If God loves all His creation that would include his enemy satan and He told us to love our enemies so He must do the same.

So what you're saying is that god created these monsters and released them on the world? That kind of god is just as bad as satan himself. In fact, that god is even worse than satan, because satan in this scenario was merely carrying out his purpose, while god had a choice whether or not to cause human suffering.

The concept of eternal hell suffering is sick. It is evidence of a mind that has accepted a very perverted sickness. And whats more sick, is that there are people who believe that God is perverted and sick enough to torture people forever. With humans the whole head is sick and the heart faint, there is no soundness in our beliefs.

If you only had a concept of what eternity is like. Forever and ever, neverending. If you place any kind of continual punishing into eternity, that is insane. If you take a little small needle and stick a small portion of it into someones finger, it may sting for a second, but just think if you did it continually, every second of the day, and everyday of the week, on into a month and longer past a year, it would drive the person insane. If they could last a year. This is the perversion of continual pain for eternity.

I don't think the issue is that we don't get it. In fact, I think constant full-body burning is a lot worse than a needle in the finger. The issue is that, according to the bible, god is going to inflict this sick eternal suffering on, at the very least satan, and, depending on your interpretation, every human who didn't believe in him.

So far there hasn't been any disagreement that this is totally sick. The issue that you're avoiding is that since god is doing this, that makes him the ultimate sick, twisted individual, less worthy of ruling all of creation than Hitler, Stalin, or Mao Zhedong.

If you discard this view of god, then you must discard the bible as false.

 

[mickiel]

I don't think the issue is that we don't get it. In fact, I think constant full-body burning is a lot worse than a needle in the finger. The issue is that, according to the bible, god is going to inflict this sick eternal suffering on, at the very least satan, and, depending on your interpretation, every human who didn't believe in him.

So far there hasn't been any disagreement that this is totally sick. The issue that you're avoiding is that since god is doing this, that makes him the ultimate sick, twisted individual, less worthy of ruling all of creation than Hitler, Stalin, or Mao Zhedong.

If you discard this view of god, then you must discard the bible as false.

I do not avoid issues, I have maintained that this is something that God willNOT do. The issue of looking at this eternal hell suffering as if it is something God will do, is just as sick as the thing God is being blamed for, allowing this sick concept of torture to even exist in Eternity. Its just as sick to believe that God will do it, as it is to believe who he will do it to. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to co-exist with misery forever. It would make God sick if he would do such a thing. I don't avoid the possibility, I just don't believe that God is dimwitted, holding power to eliminate such a thing, and not using the power. I don't view God as stupid or ignorant, thats how I view human reasonings.

Why would God co-exist in eternity with anything that he could simply will it out of existance? I would do it, and I am just human, do I hold more sense and wisdom than God? Of course not.

God is far more than what we are even able to imagine.

Peace.