The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Imagist]

conscious

consience

These words do not mean the same thing. You seem to think that they do.

 

[roli]

The "he created evil so that you will appreciate when it's fixed" argument is ridiculous because I would appreciate more if the world were perfect. God supposedly controls the concept of appreciation, so he could have made me appreciate everything from manure to genocide, but he didn't; instead he created suffering and evil, which I very much DON'T appreciate

.

Let's see, were volition is present with man. you will have carnal desires wanting to trump,surpress voice and the conviction of conscious, which is the means we know right from wrong.God even amongst evil and darkness is always speaking,guiding and teaching us, but our stubborn wills and carnal appitites drown out his soft still voice
The first man disobeyed and the goodness ,righteousness and right standing he had with God was dissolved and he became separated from God in relational union, much like a divorce and by his one act of disobedience he passed the sin nature down to all man, how Adam's sin became herititary, I'll never understand, Just watch a new born child long enough and you will soon expereince the selfish, lustful, carnal nature of this tiny creature.
Does the baby deserve or is held responsible for their carnal nature, not really, God overlooks this ignorance but will command men to repent at the age of accountability, or where they begin to undersatnd the effects and the consequences, whatever age that may be for some ,,now adays it seems kids are younger when they commit such unlawful acts, but I believe their knowledge of right and wrong is developing younger and will be accountable.
Although the child is so beautiful precious and innocent , the baby's spirit is void of God ,God is absent, therfore the abscence of righteousness will equal evil,darkness.
God departed from Adam and never came back into men until The Holy Spirit was introduced

Furthermore, god will not give good to everyone who ever lived, according to the bible. I have already disproved that by my previous bible quotes.

The very fact that the ,liars,unbelieving,wicked, immoral, covetous, muders, haters of God, violent,proud, gossipers, etc are still breathing after their evil and wicked ways, according to God's word is that His merciful ,longsufferring, patient heart is not willing that any perish but all come to repent and turn to God ,so he can save them.

We also have wrathful:

Is it that you just don't comprehend the Holiness of God and his eternal justice system, thinking God should act in accordance with your finite mind.
Your ability to know what is pure love and what is wrathful is weak in comparison to the all knowing ,all seeing God of creation.

Read Romans 1, God did not create their evil wicked ways, because they did not want to retain God in their:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

You see God gave men over to the carnal pleasures and indulgences they chose to pursue, his abscence, allowed men to carry on with what they realy desired, sin.

God came to give us new natures,to save us from the day of judgement.

Seems like I don't need to justify myself by "paint[ing] God out to be some vengeful, hating, wrathful God." He's already painted himself that way.

In your ingnorance and very finite mind, you make such a claim
It will be interesting if on the day you stand before him and attempt to justify yourself, only to become as speechlessness as will many people be when they behold his glory and his Holiness and are cut to the heart with their guilt and regret and will see the justice ,mercy ,grace and patience that God offered through their meager 70 -80 yrs on this earth.
It's kind of like this, I give you continual warning and opportunity to abstain from certain actions, but you give no heed to them or the one who issues them.
There is no recourse but that you be subject to and succumb to the consequences, but all the while pointing the accusing finger at the one who warns through your conscious, others and circumstances.

But god is not a mindless stream of water; he actively chooses to cause death, destruction, and overall suffering.

Where's your onus, you have a will and a choice.

If I harm another person, I can't blame the one who punishes me. But only a small fraction of the suffering caused by god is punishment. The most of the suffering in the world was created by god for no apparent reason.

I have seen the atrocities in other countries of the world, done not by God but by selfish, greedy violent men who strive for power, wealth and status, shall there be no responsibility on their part.

That's it .....just put it all on God and make men out to be mindless androids,without volition and your blameshifting and wilful ignorance and illogical views will avail no gain for you.

 

[AK4]

Let's see: yes, I can (and do) appreciate BOTH sweet and sour tastes. I can appreciate pleasure without knowing any pain. I can appreciate sex without... not sex... I can appreciate love (and I honestly have never really hated anyone). If I didn't have anything to make me patient, I wouldn't need to be patient. I appreciate peace and I have never been significantly affected by war. I have never died, and I have a lot of appreciation for life (really, I can't believe you thought that made any sense). Just like all of these things, I would appreciate if the world were perfect, especially since god could make me appreciate it without suffering. Oh, but he didn't do that because he's evil.

All i have to say is...1Co 1:25 - For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Really? Even if you were a scholar in this (which I sincerely doubt) why on earth would I believe your translations which are not always going to be accurate over the large group of scholars that translated the NIV or NRSV? Furthermore, can you explain to me how "lake of fire" was mistranslated? What about "eternal torment"?

I am no scholar and i never said i was. What translations did i put my stamp on? Its the large group of scholars who have done most of the damage that has people like you who are blashpeming God. They are just like the pharisees and scribes of Jesus' time. Thats why Jesus always rebuked them and talked so bad about them.

The lake of fire isnt mistranslated, its misinterpreted by the scholars and most of the churches out there. They just parrot what others parrot without doing there homework and searching for that hidden pearl/that hidden treasure which is the Truth. Look at my last post about eternal/everlasting/for ever and ever and torment/destruction/and all those other words can also mean chastisement or lost. Gee i wonder what the scholars picked to help promote their doctrine of hell--which was a tool to control the people.

Unless you know ancient Greek, Hebrew, etc. quite well, you are also reading translations which are not always going to be accurate. We're arguing based on the best information we have, and it's silly for you to claim that you have better information when we have the same information.

I dont know them that well but all you have to do is a simple word study. Pick a word i dare you!! Dont be afraid of the Truth!!! Start with hades, then go to eternal/everlasting/for ever and ever--those three they claim come the same word, which these so called scholars say it also means world,age and so on.

Its just like anything else, when you want to know if your government is telling the truth you research to find out if they're lying, now do the same about these scholars/pharisees/scribes/theologians.:slap::slap:

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well, I find it strange that atheists can believe in a hell while they don't believe in a God that could have created hell..

It's like the Jewish atheist who knows what the God he doesn't believe in expects of him.

 

[little_monkey]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball
Well, I find it strange that atheists can believe in a hell while they don't believe in a God that could have created hell..

It's like the Jewish atheist who knows what the God he doesn't believe in expects of him.

Let me guess: sarcasm is not your forte...

 

[Zophius]

Heaven and hell are not literal places or states. Neither is the afterlife. All refer to states of the spirit on the road to down to darkness or up to enlightenment. Any god who would torture his creatures for eternity is not good and therefore not God, but an impostor created by human beings.

 

[Heneni]

Heaven and hell are not literal places or states. Neither is the afterlife. All refer to states of the spirit on the road to down to darkness or up to enlightenment. Any god who would torture his creatures for eternity is not good and therefore not God, but an impostor created by human beings.

Who said god was going to do the torturing?

 

[AK4]

Heaven and hell are not literal places or states. Neither is the afterlife. All refer to states of the spirit on the road to down to darkness or up to enlightenment. Any god who would torture his creatures for eternity is not good and therefore not God, but an impostor created by human beings.

Amen. You know it amazes me that people who dont even believe in christainity or God can realise that a God who tortures His creatures for eternity isnt a loving God or a God at all. But these so called christains who say God is Love in one breath and then say God will torture/burn/barbeque/flesh rot and reform only to make it happen again and again for eternity/ worms eating your flesh over and over again for eternity/believe this is still a god of love.

Amazing absolutely amazing.:thud::faint:

 

[Heneni]

Amen. You know it amazes me that people who dont even believe in christainity or God can realise that a God who tortures His creatures for eternity isnt a loving God or a God at all. But these so called christains who say God is Love in one breath and then say God will torture/burn/barbeque/flesh rot and reform only to make it happen again and again for eternity/ worms eating your flesh over and over again for eternity/believe this is still a god of love.

Amazing absolutely amazing.:thud::faint:

Who says god is going to do the torturing?

 

[AK4]

Who says god is going to do the torturing?

Oh boy now you believe he will have the devil and demons doing all this to them for eternity--IS THAT ANY BETTER?:shout :no:Come on now!!!

 

[Heneni]

Oh boy now you believe he will have the devil and demons doing all this to them for eternity--IS THAT ANY BETTER?:shout :no:Come on now!!!

People should ask themselves why they are enjoying hell so much right now.

 

[Zophius]

Oh boy now you believe he will have the devil and demons doing all this to them for eternity--IS THAT ANY BETTER?:shout :no:Come on now!!!

Now it's my turn to say amen. But for Heneni's sake I will rephrase: any god that would employ legions of minions to torture his creatures for eternity is not good, and thus not God.

The problem with Hell is that it is a psychologically powerful idea, and the majority of people confuse the powerful with the divine. Any critical examination of the idea of literal Hell will reveal that it is powerful precisely because it is not divine in origin - because it reflects human beings' own deep-seated fantasies of punishment and retribution. But of course, if the fantasy were not so powerful, people would not cling to it so fiercely. It seems to be a vicious circle which no amount of moral or logical reasoning is likely to break.

 

[Heneni]

Now it's my turn to say amen. But for Heneni's sake I will rephrase: any god that would employ legions of minions to torture his creatures for eternity is not good, and thus not God.

The problem with Hell is that it is a psychologically powerful idea, and the majority of people confuse the powerful with the divine. Any critical examination of the idea of literal Hell will reveal that it is powerful precisely because it is not divine in origin - because it reflects human beings' own deep-seated fantasies of punishment and retribution. But of course, if the fantasy were not so powerful, people would not cling to it so fiercely. It seems to be a vicious circle which no amount of moral or logical reasoning is likely to break.

Hell is right under your feet. The fear of being sent to another one, is a fantasy. We want to rely on gods goodness to ensure we dont go to hell. But you are already in it. So the argument of a sick god sending everybody to a hell hole does not interest me. You have to deal with the fact that you are already in a hell hole. If you like it here...it should make you think about a few things. God can not be accused of being a monster, when what you are experiencing now is hell, and you love it.

The fantasy of a hellish experience awaiting us somewhere in the future, is blinding people to the fact that it is exactly what they are experiencing right now. So the question is...how hot is this place for you?

 

[AK4]

Hell is right under your feet. The fear of being sent to another one, is a fantasy. We want to rely on gods goodness to ensure we dont go to hell. But you are already in it. So the argument of a sick god sending everybody to a hell hole does not interest me. You have to deal with the fact that you are already in a hell hole. If you like it here...it should make you think about a few things. God can not be accused of being a monster, when what you are experiencing now is hell, and you love it.

The fantasy of a hellish experience awaiting us somewhere in the future, is blinding people to the fact that it is exactly what they are experiencing right now. So the question is...how hot is this place for you?

I can agree with you that this sure does feel like a hell, but you believing that it is, is not scriputural.

 

[Heneni]

I can agree with you that this sure does feel like a hell, but you believing that it is, is not scriputural.

Not?

Ok...what about this

Mark 13: 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.

 

[AK4]

Not?

Ok...what about this

Mark 13: 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.

So how is that saying this is hell right now? If you believe this is hell now, what does those who are raised to age-abiding contempt experience..



[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Daniel 12 Read This Chapter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during. (YLT)
[/FONT]
No one has been raised yet except Jesus so your "hell" right now is not scriptural.

 

[Heneni]

So how is that saying this is hell right now? If you believe this is hell now, what does those who are raised to age-abiding contempt experience..



[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Daniel 12 Read This Chapter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12:2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during. (YLT) [/FONT]

No one has been raised yet except Jesus so your "hell" right now is not scriptural.

You dont believe in re-incarnation....i do.

 

[AK4]

You dont believe in re-incarnation....i do.

Ahhhh now that explains soooo much now. Well you cant truly believe the Word because....

Heb 9:27 - Show Context Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Reincarnation contradicts that verse and any other one that mentions resurrection.

 

[herushura]

Guess how many times the word "HELL" occured in the bible, the answer is a big fat "ZERO"

Abraham, Moses, David, and all the rest of the peoples of the Old Testament only knew one place where all people went, good or bad . . . Sheol, the grave, the place of the departed.

Adam was not warned of "hell." Abraham never heard of "hell." Moses, who brought the Creator's Law into the world warned that "the wages of sin is death," Sheol, the grave. He never ever warned about being roasted, toasted, and endlessly tortured. David, when chasing after Bathsheba, suffered the consequences of his sin, but eternal torment was not on his mind. How could the Creator be so thoughtless, and not warn millions of people of a fate they did not even know awaited them? Could this be just? Could this be loving?

 

[AK4]

Guess how many times the word "HELL" occured in the bible, the answer is a big fat "ZERO"

Abraham, Moses, David, and all the rest of the peoples of the Old Testament only knew one place where all people went, good or bad . . . Sheol, the grave, the place of the departed.

Adam was not warned of "hell." Abraham never heard of "hell." Moses, who brought the Creator's Law into the world warned that "the wages of sin is death," Sheol, the grave. He never ever warned about being roasted, toasted, and endlessly tortured. David, when chasing after Bathsheba, suffered the consequences of his sin, but eternal torment was not on his mind. How could the Creator be so thoughtless, and not warn millions of people of a fate they did not even know awaited them? Could this be just? Could this be loving?

Exactly:clap:clap