The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[MidnightSun]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

I agree. I'm annoyed that the silly Christian's ruined God's reputation. That's why I don't want to be called Christian. Just A God believer.

 

[Imagist]

God doesn't put anyone in hell, they CHOOSE to go to hell by not following God's message. And they do suffer for all eternity.

God is Merciful and Fogiving, but many will not choose to believe in Him. If a person does not choose belief and nourish his/her soul then he/she cannot stand in Heaven.

We have all been warned of this in the Bible and the Quran, those who choose not to follow it do end up in hell, suffering for all eternity. We all have a fair chance to escape...

Humans don't throw themselves into hell. Saying people choose hell by doing things God doesn't like is like saying that murder victims choose to be murdered by walking down dark alleyways. Just as in the case of the dark alleyway the murder is still the murderer's fault, the eternal suffering of someone who disobeys god is god's fault.

 

[Imagist]

tumbleweed:

the quran is a scripture proven by a mathematical code. it is directly from God, not a human. no human being could produce something like this. did you have a look at the website?

This is plainly ridiculous. Humans produce metered verse with a structure all the time. It's called poetic form.

 

[Imagist]

wondered off: please tell me how do establish any beliefs at all if this is your theory...

It's simply a matter of believing that for which one has credible evidence.

tumbleweed: this is not just a bunch of numbers, not just verses. not numerology. the letters, phrases and even the amount of times your lips touch during our specific prayers all fall into multiples of 19. cannot be coincidental...

Of course it's not coincidental. Humans wrote it.

Do you think that Macbeth is divinely inspired because each line is made up of five iambs? Obviously it isn't: Macbeth was written by Shakespeare, and he wrote it using iambic pentameter so that each line intentionally had five iambs.

 

[Imagist]

I agree. I'm annoyed that the silly Christian's ruined God's reputation. That's why I don't want to be called Christian. Just A God believer.

Christian doesn't refer to everything that every Christian believes. It generally just refers to a belief that god sacrificed himself to himself to excuse us from rules that he made.

If you believe in this doctrine, you are a Christian. It's silly to label yourself as anything else.

I don't like everything atheists do, but I don't go around calling myself a non-god-believer because of it.

 

[Spiritone]

God doesn't put anyone in hell, they CHOOSE to go to hell by not following God's message. And they do suffer for all eternity.

God is Merciful and Fogiving, but many will not choose to believe in Him. If a person does not choose belief and nourish his/her soul then he/she cannot stand in Heaven.

We have all been warned of this in the Bible and the Quran, those who choose not to follow it do end up in hell, suffering for all eternity. We all have a fair chance to escape...

This is one explanation:
A lot of what Jesus said and his followers taught later, are parables. Sometimes we have to go back to the original language if we can so as not to get it wrong. Hell is used as a metaphor for those who loose their souls forever. That word 'forever' is suspect in my book as are some other words used in the interpretation of the NT. And there is what can easily be referred to as Hell here on earth. You can see it all around you if you look deeper than the facade we are kept/put ourselves behind.

 

[Imagist]

This is one explanation:
A lot of what Jesus said and his followers taught later, are parables. Sometimes we have to go back to the original language if we can so as not to get it wrong. Hell is used as a metaphor for those who loose their souls forever. That word 'forever' is suspect in my book as are some other words used in the interpretation of the NT. And there is what can easily be referred to as Hell here on earth. You can see it all around you if you look deeper than the facade we are kept/put ourselves behind.

There's one problem with this:

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

This story is very clear and not at all metaphorical: there is a place, with fire, where a bad person is suffering forever. Call it hell, sheol, or whatever you want, just as long as you admit that it's fiery and tormenting.

And the story also clearly denotes that earth, heaven, and hell are three separate places. There's a chasm between heaven and hell, and the rich man wants Lazarus sent to earth to warn his family (so hell and earth aren't the same place).

 

[Spiritone]

There's one problem with this:



This story is very clear and not at all metaphorical: there is a place, with fire, where a bad person is suffering forever. Call it hell, sheol, or whatever you want, just as long as you admit that it's fiery and tormenting.

And the story also clearly denotes that earth, heaven, and hell are three separate places. There's a chasm between heaven and hell, and the rich man wants Lazarus sent to earth to warn his family (so hell and earth aren't the same place).

Everyone has their own opinion that may change as time goes by, of course. No matter how I read it I still believe that was a moral story to direct people in a sharing direction.
The hell you are talking about is a physical fire if I understand you correctly. Where would this physical hell be? And when our physical body dies what is left is spirit. I'm sure spirit can suffer as in reincarnation here on earth or elsewhere before going on to a higher level which would be one with the Creator. imo.

 

[dvice19]

you guys are are assuming the mathematical code is numerology or rhyme sequence before even studying it. it's not:

Appendix 1​

 

[tumbleweed41]

you guys are are assuming the mathematical code is numerology or rhyme sequence before even studying it. it's not:

Appendix 1​

Studied it, read over it, analyzed it....classic Numerology.
And what do you think of the Su'na manuscripts?

 

[Imagist]

The hell you are talking about is a physical fire if I understand you correctly. Where would this physical hell be?

I'm not saying the afterlife story makes sense. I'm just saying that it doesn't say what you and mickiel think it says.

 

[Imagist]

you guys are are assuming the mathematical code is numerology or rhyme sequence before even studying it. it's not:

Appendix 1​

1. Pick any reasonably long piece of text.
2. Pick a number 2-30 inclusive.
3. Find 30 ways in which this number can be applied to the text.

With a little creativity, you will find that this is much easier than you would expect.

 

[Spiritone]

I'm not saying the afterlife story makes sense. I'm just saying that it doesn't say what you and mickiel think it says.

So do you choose to believe something that does not make sense over something that does?

Of course anything is possible and no one knows for definite so we search and try to avoid those who control others by using what was meant to be sacred.

It's a good idea to:--- Never be too sure of anything, but consider all thing as possibilities.

 

[Imagist]

So do you choose to believe something that does not make sense over something that does?

Of course anything is possible and no one knows for definite so we search and try to avoid those who control others by using what was meant to be sacred.

It's a good idea to:--- Never be too sure of anything, but consider all thing as possibilities.

Just because the afterlife story doesn't make sense doesn't mean that your belief that there is no hell makes any more sense. Neither belief makes sense. But at least the afterlife story is a bit more internally consistent - it doesn't pretend that the bible is all unicorns and rainbows: there's a whole lot of death and torture in there.

 

[mickiel]

I agree. I'm annoyed that the silly Christian's ruined God's reputation. That's why I don't want to be called Christian. Just A God believer.

Well yes, not only have they ruined Gods reputation, they have somehow gotten to believe that they represent God. Nothing could be further from the truth. Christians think that God is playing some kind of sick game of cat and mouse with humans. That he is being selective of his gift of salvation, but God is not a respector of persons, he Loves all of us the same, and we all will get the same benefits from Christ death. Christians believe that only they will.

They seem to think that Christ came only for them, you know, the righteous.

They are dead wrong, he came for sinners, and all have sinned, so he came to save all.

Peace.

 

[kjw47]

Hi Friends, One would have eternal life if hell were real. God would be a sadist if hell were real. The lake of fire destroys eternally. The Hebrew word Sheol and the greek word Hades translate== The common grave of mankind. And on top of all that How much hapiness will you find, say if your child, or spouse, etc were calling out to you suffering in hell like in the story of Lazurus. Gods word teaches that hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire. They cannot suffer eternally, they can be destroyed eternally.

 

[Spiritone]

Just because the afterlife story doesn't make sense doesn't mean that your belief that there is no hell makes any more sense. Neither belief makes sense. But at least the afterlife story is a bit more internally consistent - it doesn't pretend that the bible is all unicorns and rainbows: there's a whole lot of death and torture in there.

There's a whole lot of death and torture on this earth. I don't follow any particular religion but I'm constantly reading/studying about all things spiritual and different religions. I never "argue" with anyone but I do try to let people see other possibilities.
I do believe that Jesus was a great spiritual leader, maybe the best, and contemplate his words a lot. If Jesus could have seen what happened to his teachings after his time I'm sure he would have wept again.

 

[Imagist]

Hi Friends, One would have eternal life if hell were real. God would be a sadist if hell were real. The lake of fire destroys eternally. The Hebrew word Sheol and the greek word Hades translate== The common grave of mankind. And on top of all that How much hapiness will you find, say if your child, or spouse, etc were calling out to you suffering in hell like in the story of Lazurus. Gods word teaches that hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire. They cannot suffer eternally, they can be destroyed eternally.

Thank you for clearly stating what I have been saying all along:

1. God would be a sadist if hell were real.

2. According to the bible, hell IS real.

3. Therefore, according to the bible, God is a sadist.

Mickiel's argument this entire time has been completely backward:

1. I like God.

2. Therefore, he can't be a sadist.

3. God would be a sadist if hell were real.

4. Therefore, screw what the bible says: hell isn't real.

 

[Imagist]

There's a whole lot of death and torture on this earth. I don't follow any particular religion but I'm constantly reading/studying about all things spiritual and different religions. I never "argue" with anyone but I do try to let people see other possibilities.

It's good to be open minded and look at many possibilities. But it is wrong to assume that all possibilities are on even footing: some possibilities are obviously wrong. In this case, it is very clear: one cannot both believe in the bible and not believe in hell.

I do believe that Jesus was a great spiritual leader, maybe the best, and contemplate his words a lot. If Jesus could have seen what happened to his teachings after his time I'm sure he would have wept again.

I agree, Jesus was an exceptional person with ideas hundreds of years ahead of his time. But thousands of years later, many (not all) of his ideas have become outdated. As Sam Harris says to Andrew Sullivan:

Rather than pick over the carcass of Christianity (or any other traditional faith) looking for a few, uncontaminated morsels of wisdom, why not take a proper seat at the banquet of human understanding in the present?

 

[mickiel]

Thank you for clearly stating what I have been saying all along:

Mickiel's argument this entire time has been completely backward:
quote




My assertions are not backwards, the beliefs of people are.

Peace.