The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[tumbleweed41]

Yes everlasting destruction, not Hellfire there is a difference. Gehenna is a place of everlasting destruction, not burning for eternity in a pit of fire.
Again it does not say, everlasting torment in a fiery hell dimension poked with hot pokers and pain all the time. It says everlasting destruction. Destruction, non-existance. thats what it is.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Mathew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mathew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mathew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Imagist]

The real threat to Salvation, is the misunderstanding of christians, they are the threat. They will push hell unto the end. The " Gates of Hell", or a mind open to the belief of hell, shallNOT prevail against Gods true Church, which everyone Jesus died for is destined to be a part of.

But christians are trying to " Limit Salvation", teaching that God has created it to be a " Free Will decesion", so that they can glory in their decision, and condemn others who have not made that choice. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13;" But woe to you, scribes and pharisees, ( which really is what modernday christians are, Pharisees) because you " SHUT OFF the Kingdom from men." They are trying to limit salvation to " Only christians." Which I think is evil. Jesus call tyhese self righteous believers, " Twice the sons of hell", vs. 15. They are children of hell because they believe in it with all their hearts.

Once a christian enters into a conversation, a very astute deception also enters. And they will start to condemn nonstop.

Peace.

You are simply doing the same thing you have done all along with this post:

1. Ignore the bible verses which prove you wrong.
2. Restate your position with some misinterpreted/misquoted verse.
3. Blame it on Christians, despite the fact that you are a Christian.

 

[lockyfan]

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Its actually fire and Sulphar. The same stuff that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. They are no longer in the land of the living, it is tormenting to them to know that they will no longer exist.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/quote]
Again destruction. Fire consumes and destroys. It does not torment at all, it destroys. Leaves no trace of.

Mathew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

THe fire is everlasting because it is everlasting destruction.

Mathew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Or Everlasting cutting off, depending on what your version weants to say. Cutting off = destruction

Mathew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

They will be going do their eternal death. thats why they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, they have had judgement poured out on them and they will know that destruction lies ahead for them. Once they die they wont be feeling anything.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Burns with fire and sulphar. Again the same stuff that destroyed Sodom and Gommorah



Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all

Psalms 116:17
The dead themselves do not praise Jah, Nor do any going down into silence

Psalms 146:4
His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish

John 11:11
He said these things, and after this he said to them: “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep

As you can see death is the opposite of life. Life being existance and death being non-existance.

There is no Hell. That is the truth. If you want to believe that a loving God wants you to burn forever in eternal torment, then go ahead I am not stopping you. But a God that IS LOVE would not want that for you.

Remember by using your idea on hell, all humans even the second being ever created go to hell. Does that make sense? Or does it make sense for a Catholic or an Anglican who believes in the trinity to believe that God went to hell for three days?

I see no logic in this thinking. I see it as the devil trying to twist the truth to mislead many peoples in the nations. Just as he mislead Eve in the Garden of Eden, he is doing it today.

 

[SpiritualBeing]

lockyfan, I must applaud you, for even with the surmountablr evidence against you, you still seem to argue your case well. These passages that have been given to you are those of Hell. Jesus went into Hell to open tha gates of Heaven, and it does say somewhere in the Bible, as I remember the Chaplain reading it, that says Jesus did suffer in Hell to save us all from our sin.

:candle:

 

[tumbleweed41]

Lockyfan,
I personally do not believe in hell, as I am a Deist.
I was merely pointing out verses that, although interpreted differently by yourself, can be used to prove the existence of hell and eternal suffering by other Christians. Such as SpiritualBeing.

 

[Imagist]

lockyfan, I must applaud you, for even with the surmountablr evidence against you, you still seem to argue your case well. These passages that have been given to you are those of Hell. Jesus went into Hell to open tha gates of Heaven, and it does say somewhere in the Bible, as I remember the Chaplain reading it, that says Jesus did suffer in Hell to save us all from our sin.

:candle:

Actually, I've read the bible cover to cover seven times (I was once a devout Christian) and nowhere in the bible does it say that.

 

[lockyfan]

lockyfan, I must applaud you, for even with the surmountablr evidence against you, you still seem to argue your case well. These passages that have been given to you are those of Hell. Jesus went into Hell to open tha gates of Heaven, and it does say somewhere in the Bible, as I remember the Chaplain reading it, that says Jesus did suffer in Hell to save us all from our sin.

:candle:

Can you please find the scripture that you are refering to.

The definition of Sheol and Hades

they both equal death.

One is the Hebrew word and the other is from the Christian Greek scriptures, they both actually mean

The common grave of mankind.

This is death.

We die, because we sin. Its human nature as most say, I look at it as a hereditory plague that was passed down from Adam.

 

[LittleNipper]

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all

Psalms 116:17
The dead themselves do not praise Jah, Nor do any going down into silence

Psalms 146:4
His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish

John 11:11
He said these things, and after this he said to them: “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep

As you can see death is the opposite of life. Life being existance and death being non-existance.

There is no Hell. That is the truth. If you want to believe that a loving God wants you to burn forever in eternal torment, then go ahead I am not stopping you. But a God that IS LOVE would not want that for you.

Remember by using your idea on hell, all humans even the second being ever created go to hell. Does that make sense? Or does it make sense for a Catholic or an Anglican who believes in the trinity to believe that God went to hell for three days?

JESUS did go to hell for three days and liberated the Old Testament saints from Abraham's bosom, as HE preached so that even those across the great chasm likely heard HIM. Obviously, the rich man heard Lazarus and visa versa.

As for those other verses, they simply indicate to me that when a person is dead, he/she has no idea what is happening here in the world of the living.

 

[SpiritualBeing]

Can I say that this has gotten quite out of hand. This debate has now become a Scriptural debate, and has very loose relevance to the topic. If you want to argue the Holy Bible, then please start up a new thread. This thread is for the "sick concept of eternal hell suffering", with concept being the operative word.

If this scriptural debate carries on, then I will be notifying a member of staff. I don't mean to be a snitch or whatever, but I just think that this threads topic has been sidetracked.

Blessings,

:candle:

 

[lockyfan]

JESUS did go to hell for three days and liberated the Old Testament saints from Abraham's bosom, as HE preached so that even those across the great chasm likely heard HIM. Obviously, the rich man heard Lazarus and visa versa.

As for those other verses, they simply indicate to me that when a person is dead, he/she has no idea what is happening here in the world of the living.

Can you please quote this scripture, in another thread if need be. thanks

Can I say that this has gotten quite out of hand. This debate has now become a Scriptural debate, and has very loose relevance to the topic. If you want to argue the Holy Bible, then please start up a new thread. This thread is for the "sick concept of eternal hell suffering", with concept being the operative word.

If this scriptural debate carries on, then I will be notifying a member of staff. I don't mean to be a snitch or whatever, but I just think that this threads topic has been sidetracked.

Blessings,

:candle:

its not sidetracked, just hijacked by scriptures to prove our point. Mine being that there is no such thing as Hell,

It is sick, twisted and perverted idea to think that the God that loves you would want you to burn forever in torment.

It is taught by most religions so that you give more money to the church.

I have a story to share with you all.



There was a woman in the Catholic Church who had just lost her husband. When they handed the collection plate around that day, she had hardly any money and put in only what she could.

the Priest saw how much she put in and went to talk to her afterwards, he told her, that her husband was hanging on by strands of his hair on his head in purgatory and that to save him from Hell, she had to give more money to the church.

Her husband was bald........................... This is a true story people.




I have one more thing to say. I will Scream it from the mountain tops if I have to, from now until Armageddon. There IS NO HELL

 

[Imagist]

Can you please quote this scripture, in another thread if need be. thanks



its not sidetracked, just hijacked by scriptures to prove our point. Mine being that there is no such thing as Hell,

It is sick, twisted and perverted idea to think that the God that loves you would want you to burn forever in torment.

It is taught by most religions so that you give more money to the church.

I have a story to share with you all.



There was a woman in the Catholic Church who had just lost her husband. When they handed the collection plate around that day, she had hardly any money and put in only what she could.

the Priest saw how much she put in and went to talk to her afterwards, he told her, that her husband was hanging on by strands of his hair on his head in purgatory and that to save him from Hell, she had to give more money to the church.

Her husband was bald........................... This is a true story people.




I have one more thing to say. I will Scream it from the mountain tops if I have to, from now until Armageddon. There IS NO HELL

That's a very unfortunate story, but in fact has nothing to do with this debate. Purgatory and hell are two different concepts (in fact, purgatory lacks biblical basis, and was recently declared nonexistent by the Catholic Church in a striking reversal of hundreds of years of dogma).

Hell, on the other hand, is mentioned many times and is well-described in the bible. If hell does not exist, then how do you explain the verses which describe hell?

 

[lockyfan]

Yeah so if they went and changed their ideas on that piece of Dogma, how can you believe the rest of it?

Ok, so again describe Hell.

If you describe it as fire and brimestone, then that actually describes the lake of fire in Revelation

If it is a place of suffering please show me the scriptures in the bible that prove you suffer there

There is NO HELL

 

[mickiel]

Yeah so if they went and changed their ideas on that piece of Dogma, how can you believe the rest of it?

Ok, so again describe Hell.

If you don't mind, I will try to describe hell, from what I understand it to be in their belief. Its eternal, meaning it will go on past 1 billion years, into 777,777,777 trillion years, on into infinity. And us sinners will be alive and conscious every second along the way. I don't think they will allow us any breaks in the suffering, we must suffer without reprieve, no breaks, no days or hours off. I mean, we know God is merciful, but there will be no mercy in this hell. Which means no sleeping will be allowed, why punish someone while they are sleeping, thats no fun.

So then, it stands to reason, if you consider hell reasonable, that God, in his brillance, must then compensate for this, and give the human sufferers, much more than what is humanly able to endure. If I am to suffer for eternity, then God MUST give me a new mind, a very powerful brain that willnot go insane during this untold of misery. A " Super brain", designed to endure much more than the average human can bear. So then it is reasonable to give me a status, which before this, is just unheard of. A " Super Sufferer", so to speak. Equip me to endure this perminent pain.

Now then, what must I need? Well along with a super mind, I will no doubt need a super body. One that will not break down, or combust and burn up. Well then, make me like the Human Torch, a body that will mix and blend in with the Fire. And yet not burn up, that makes sense. Now what about my position in hell, if I am to stand up on my feet for all these untold of eternitys, then I will need legs like the incredible Hulk, unless God will allow us to lay down during this Misery. Now since we will be in a Lake of Fire, then give me the ability to swim in it, or stay afloat, so make me an " Aquaman", able to go under the water of Fire, and breathe air while I am under. This is starting to sound like a " Super hero sufferer", so God had better post guards around this lake, we wouldnot want any of these newly created super beings getting out, now would we! You know they would probally be mad after what, 188,999 trillion years of this incredible pain and torture. They might just think about escapeing. But perhaps not, misery has a way of making humans submissive.

Well why waste Gods time placing Angels at guard, thats not a good job, these Angels wouldnot enjoy that, so God could create a different dimension, a " Hole in Space", that no one could get in or out. Yes, that sounds reasonable. But would hell still require maintinance? Will we need to be fed? Or can we just starve? Yes, yes , thats it, just make us so super, we willnot require to be nourished, why feed a dirty sinner? Just make us so endurable, we will not need nourishment for all of eternity.

Can we suffers talk to each other? Or will there be a code against that? Only screams and sounds of misery will be allowed. Yes, yes thats it, no entertainment, just continual pain. No eating, no bowel movements, no waste, for these human waste. What about clothes? Inflamable clothes, or just naked bodies? Well that may cause lust, after all , these are sinners, they may try to have sex in hell, with no guards, whats to stop that? A little pleasure to take away the misery?

Which brings to question, will there be laws in hell? Whats to stop one of these Super Sufferers from trying to rule hell? Ganging up on each other, because they may be driven madd after 999, 777 quadrillion years.

Perhaps this is what hell will be like.

I just can't see God doing this.

Peace.

 

[lockyfan]

Where in the bible does it tell us we will be tormented day and night forever in hell?

the gnashing of their teeth, is them when htry realise that they arec destined for destruction, but the "lake of fire and sulphar (brimstone depending on your version of the bible) is a place of eternal destruction, not torment

 

[jrbogie]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

when i ponder this question, i often think about a german concentration camp guard at auschwitiz in 1944. he's a devout christian, attends church with his loving family each sunday and donates his share when the collection plate is passed. on this day he is leading jews, among whom is a family, mother, father, daughter, son, into the gas chamber. the nazi, if he asks forgiveness for his sins after the war, he will enjoy raising his children, playing with his grand children and otherwise basking in the warmth we call life. and when that ends he'll ascend to heaven where he'll meet his loved ones. the jewish family on the other hand, not believing precisely as the german that jesus is the son of god, will burn in hell for eternity. that's just sick man.

 

[A Truth]

Lucifer and Herne are the only Gods to have ever shown benevolence towards humans.

 

[SpiritualBeing]

Can you please quote this scripture, in another thread if need be. thanks



its not sidetracked, just hijacked by scriptures to prove our point. Mine being that there is no such thing as Hell,

It is sick, twisted and perverted idea to think that the God that loves you would want you to burn forever in torment.

It is taught by most religions so that you give more money to the church.

I have a story to share with you all.



There was a woman in the Catholic Church who had just lost her husband. When they handed the collection plate around that day, she had hardly any money and put in only what she could.

the Priest saw how much she put in and went to talk to her afterwards, he told her, that her husband was hanging on by strands of his hair on his head in purgatory and that to save him from Hell, she had to give more money to the church.

Her husband was bald........................... This is a true story people.




I have one more thing to say. I will Scream it from the mountain tops if I have to, from now until Armageddon. There IS NO HELL

This is a very sad story indeed, but you must take into consideration that the priest in question was a single being.

I mean, if every single priests conciousness was connected by a single telekinetic link, then I would believe that it was the entire fault of the Catholic priesthood, yet they are not.

That story has got one preist in it, who has his own conciousness, and the entire Catholic Church cannot be condemned by it. Just because one corrupt priest goes and does something like that doesn't mean there is no such thing as Hell.

:candle:

 

[Imagist]

Yeah so if they went and changed their ideas on that piece of Dogma, how can you believe the rest of it?

I don't. I'm an atheist. My argument is merely that the bible says there is a hell and that god will eternally punish people there.

If you describe it as fire and brimestone, then that actually describes the lake of fire in Revelation

If it is a place of suffering please show me the scriptures in the bible that prove you suffer there

I have quoted these scriptures multiple times on this thread, and have not had a single response to them from the people who claim that hell does not exist. It is becoming tiresome to post the same thing over and over, so if you want these scriptures, please look back over my previous posts.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Where in the bible does it tell us we will be tormented day and night forever in hell?

the gnashing of their teeth, is them when htry realise that they arec destined for destruction, but the "lake of fire and sulphar (brimstone depending on your version of the bible) is a place of eternal destruction, not torment

By your interpretation, however others interpret it differently.
I already quoted verses used by many Fundamentalists to endorse their view of Hell.
If you interpret these differently, then no one will be able to show you what you ask for.

You already asked for them, you got them, then you interpret them.
Beating a dead horse here you know.

By your definition, those who do not accept Jesus as their savior will be destroyed eternally. Although "eternal destruction" seems a bit redundant, it is still a punishment without end. And therefore serves no purpose in rehabilitation.
It is a threat to be carried out upon those who failed to see things your (or your Gods) way.
Thus it is still a "sick concept".

 

[mickiel]

when i ponder this question, i often think about a german concentration camp guard at auschwitiz in 1944. he's a devout christian, attends church with his loving family each sunday and donates his share when the collection plate is passed. on this day he is leading jews, among whom is a family, mother, father, daughter, son, into the gas chamber. the nazi, if he asks forgiveness for his sins after the war, he will enjoy raising his children, playing with his grand children and otherwise basking in the warmth we call life. and when that ends he'll ascend to heaven where he'll meet his loved ones. the jewish family on the other hand, not believing precisely as the german that jesus is the son of god, will burn in hell for eternity. that's just sick man.

It is sick, and most christians just cannot see this. They actually believe that Jesus was beaten to death, in order for many humans to be beaten for eternity. Just because they don't " Know God." As if God is some kind of " Ego Maniac", who tortures those who disagree with his way, but he holds the power to change them, help them see the light. But christians act like its a " Sin for God to use his power to change an unbelievers mind." Because their stuck on this doctrine of " Free Will." They actually think its fair for God to NOT intervene with a humans will, and just let them condemn themselves by choice. Its insane. They think God will allow his children to free will themselves into this hell, just because they don't have enough sense on their own, to believe in him.

The seduction of the christian mind is a deep study in deception.

Peace.