The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

Humans will be delivered from any kind of oncomming evil or death and punishment, by the creator himself, our only Hope. Acts 2:23;" This Man, delivered up by the " Predetermined Plan and Foreknowledge of God." Its looking more like to me that God has already predetermined the outcome of all of human history.

He, in no manner, would have preplanned for billions to go to some eternal firey pit of eternal misery. Not when it is within his power to preplan complette deliverance of the totality of created humanity.

I just only wish he would give me this knowledge, this understanding, in complette assurance.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

Humans will be delivered from any kind of oncomming evil or death and punishment, by the creator himself, our only Hope. Acts 2:23;" This Man, delivered up by the " Predetermined Plan and Foreknowledge of God." Its looking more like to me that God has already predetermined the outcome of all of human history.

He, in no manner, would have preplanned for billions to go to some eternal firey pit of eternal misery. Not when it is within his power to preplan complette deliverance of the totality of created humanity.

I just only wish he would give me this knowledge, this understanding, in complette assurance.

Peace.

Of course it is within his power. He is all-powerful.

 

[mickiel]

Of course it is within his power. He is all-powerful.

Being an Atheist, you saying that is quite different.

Hope you find your defining belief.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

Being an Atheist, you saying that is quite different.

Hope you find your defining belief.

Peace.

You still don't get proof by contradiction?

I'll spell it out for you.

1. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that belief in the bible is true.
2. The bible says that god is a loving god.
3. The bible says that god sends people to hell.
4. A loving god could not send people to hell.
5. Therefore, our initial assumption that the bible is true must be false.
6. Therefore, the bible is not true.

 

[mickiel]

You still don't get proof by contradiction?

I'll spell it out for you.

1. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that belief in the bible is true.
2. The bible says that god is a loving god.
3. The bible says that god sends people to hell.
4. A loving god could not send people to hell.
5. Therefore, our initial assumption that the bible is true must be false.
6. Therefore, the bible is not true.

Because of 3 and 4, I can only conclude that the parts of the bible that mention God sending people to a hell, are either misunderstood, or simply inncorrect translation, or downright added forgery. A Loving God wouldnot send people to hell, I agree wholeheartedly with that, so somebody has got some things wrong somewhere.

I need not dismiss my belief in God because people have got things wrong. Why should I let others belief effect mine? Some believe that cows are sacred, some believe that one race is superior over others, some believe that christmas and easter are holy days, some believe that evil created itself or evolved from nothing, and others believe that God will only take the best of us with him and to hell with the rest.

None of these things affect my belief or erode it in any manner. The bible is not flawless, and this hellfire eternity is proof of that.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

Because of 3 and 4, I can only conclude that the parts of the bible that mention God sending people to a hell, are either misunderstood, or simply inncorrect translation, or downright added forgery. A Loving God wouldnot send people to hell, I agree wholeheartedly with that, so somebody has got some things wrong somewhere.

I need not dismiss my belief in God because people have got things wrong. Why should I let others belief effect mine? Some believe that cows are sacred, some believe that one race is superior over others, some believe that christmas and easter are holy days, some believe that evil created itself or evolved from nothing, and others believe that God will only take the best of us with him and to hell with the rest.

None of these things affect my belief or erode it in any manner. The bible is not flawless, and this hellfire eternity is proof of that.

Peace.

So how do you separate the good from the bad? If you have some way of knowing what's right and wrong that isn't the bible, why do you need the bible at all?

 

[mickiel]

So how do you separate the good from the bad? If you have some way of knowing what's right and wrong that isn't the bible, why do you need the bible at all?

My only need right now is God himself, I don't need the bible, I just see it as a very good book. And I really don't think its possible to seperate the good from the bad, they are just too intertwined. We have them far too mixed up, and I think it was God himself who started this. He created a tree, or established a system of reproducing knowledge, and put both good and evil knowledge in that tree, and human civilization has sprouted both together ever since.

Only God can undo what he has done. And only he can satisfy a humans personal need for him. I only hope one day he gets around to me.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

My only need right now is God himself, I don't need the bible, I just see it as a very good book. And I really don't think its possible to seperate the good from the bad, they are just too intertwined. We have them far too mixed up, and I think it was God himself who started this. He created a tree, or established a system of reproducing knowledge, and put both good and evil knowledge in that tree, and human civilization has sprouted both together ever since.

Only God can undo what he has done. And only he can satisfy a humans personal need for him. I only hope one day he gets around to me.

Peace.

Good luck with that. Personally, I think you're better off finding ways to fulfill your own needs than waiting for an invisible guy in the sky to fulfill them for you. If you ever see things my way, I'm sure the atheist community will welcome you with open arms.

 

[mickiel]

Good luck with that. Personally, I think you're better off finding ways to fulfill your own needs than waiting for an invisible guy in the sky to fulfill them for you. If you ever see things my way, I'm sure the atheist community will welcome you with open arms.

Well I have tried it my way, for 54 years now and counting. I mean I have worked all my life, educated myself, endulged in much wine, women and song, always taken care of myself, never been a burden on anyone. I have tasted of the good and the bad, and I am sick of them both.

Only because I believe the version of the good and bad in my life has come from humanity, not from God. Now I want to know directly from him what life is and whats going on. Its just that I have discovered that God responds only when and how he is ready to. He cannot be rushed, cannot be manipulated, and really all you can do is wait and hope.

Or like you say, you can join an athiest community.

Peace.

 

[TheAceOfKnaves]

You still don't get proof by contradiction?

I'll spell it out for you.

1. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that belief in the bible is true.
2. The bible says that god is a loving god.
3. The bible says that god sends people to hell.
4. A loving god could not send people to hell.
5. Therefore, our initial assumption that the bible is true must be false.
6. Therefore, the bible is not true.

Ok, but your forgetting one very important attribute of God. He is also completely just. We all deserve to be thrown into hell because of our sins, but God allows us too choose Him instead. So if God chooses to send someone to Hell, that is not unjust, because He has no obligation to save us at all. It's like if I walked into a room of 20 people and gave 5 of them $20,000. The 15 that are left out have no right to complain to me, because I did not have to give anyone any money, I chose to. God has the right to save us, because He made us, but He has given us a way to salvation anyway, but He has the right to condemn us to Hell as well. Paul makes the case (for the sake of argument, not because he believed it, and neither do I) that God could arbitrarily decide who is saved and who is punished forever simply by virtue of His being our creator. This is the key to an understanding of why Hell exists, not because God wants to punish us, but because we all deserve to be punished. It is by His miraculous and unbelievable grace that some of us are saved.

 

[TheAceOfKnaves]

I am not a christian and I do not worship their God.

Peace.

If you are not a Christian and do not worship our God, why do you keep using the Christian Bible as evidence and proof for your beliefs?

 

[mickiel]

If you are not a Christian and do not worship our God, why do you keep using the Christian Bible as evidence and proof for your beliefs?

The Bible is the Word of God, not something owned by Christians. The word of God has not been labeled " The Christian bible in Heaven", only certain earthly people believe that. John 1:1, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, but most bibles call it the Revelation of John. Its not the revelation of John, its the Revelation of Jesus to John.

The bible, or the word of God, is for " The World", not for christians. Christians are just trying to usurp it as their own. Its their selfish pride of Life.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

The Bible is the Word of God, not something owned by Christians. The word of God has not been labeled " The Christian bible in Heaven", only certain earthly people believe that. John 1:1, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, but most bibles call it the Revelation of John. Its not the revelation of John, its the Revelation of Jesus to John.

The bible, or the word of God, is for " The World", not for christians. Christians are just trying to usurp it as their own. Its their selfish pride of Life.

Peace.

Sorry Mickiel, but your beliefs aren't any different from Christian beliefs, so you are just a Christian.

 

[mickiel]

Sorry Mickiel, but your beliefs aren't any different from Christian beliefs, so you are just a Christian.

I am no such thing, and you cannot make me one. You can interpit me as being one, but I live by my interpitation of my identity, not yours. This just shows that you pay little attention to my beliefs, they are FAR different than christians; and yours.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

I am no such thing, and you cannot make me one. You can interpit me as being one, but I live by my interpitation of my identity, not yours. This just shows that you pay little attention to my beliefs, they are FAR different than christians; and yours.

Peace.

My statement that you are a Christian passes the duck test.

Does it quack like a duck? Waddle like a duck? Swim, fish, lay eggs, care for its ducklings, and fly like a duck? If so, it's probably a duck.

I am not trying to make you a Christian any more than I am trying to make a duck a duck.

 

[mickiel]

My statement that you are a Christian passes the duck test.

Does it quack like a duck? Waddle like a duck? Swim, fish, lay eggs, care for its ducklings, and fly like a duck? If so, it's probably a duck.

I am not trying to make you a Christian any more than I am trying to make a duck a duck.

Its just not within your power to make me anything, christian, gay, a duck, it does not matter, you simply do not define me and who or what I am. What comes out of your mouth cannot define who I am, because its not possible for you to do, but yet you try to do impossible things, because you do think you hold the power to define. I disagree with christians more than I do Atheist, because I view them as more harmful to the truth.

Atheist cannot harm the truth, because they hold no real power in this world. This is not so with christians, they hold influence.

Peace.

 

[challupa]

Well I have tried it my way, for 54 years now and counting. I mean I have worked all my life, educated myself, endulged in much wine, women and song, always taken care of myself, never been a burden on anyone. I have tasted of the good and the bad, and I am sick of them both.

Only because I believe the version of the good and bad in my life has come from humanity, not from God. Now I want to know directly from him what life is and whats going on. Its just that I have discovered that God responds only when and how he is ready to. He cannot be rushed, cannot be manipulated, and really all you can do is wait and hope.

Or like you say, you can join an athiest community.

Peace.

Have you heard of a course in miracles? If not maybe check it out. It's not for me, but many people seem to have found what they were searching for in it.

 

[mickiel]

Have you heard of a course in miracles? If not maybe check it out. It's not for me, but many people seem to have found what they were searching for in it.

Miracles have therir place, I am sure, but others experiences are not for me, so I agree with you there. God has done things for me, things that seemed " Other Worldly", but those things can happen to anyone, its not " the kind of proof I need to install complette confidence in me." So I don't look to install it in others who do not believe.

I need more from God, and he knows it. I need rock solid mind accepting, inner being knowing that I really know. Its not that God couldnot provide that, he could, but God, is God, he has his own agenda. His own ways, his own will and timetable. And NOTHING anyone can think or do will change that. Why should God, who is infinte and all powerful, try to explain something to an finite being he created, that would open their mind to whats really going on? How could a being with no power, understand things that are off their scale of even comprehending? God knows this,

And I have discovered that he is in no hurry to do things, hes got all the time in our world, and his.

His patience is just like that.

Peace.

 

[challupa]

Miracles have therir place, I am sure, but others experiences are not for me, so I agree with you there. God has done things for me, things that seemed " Other Worldly", but those things can happen to anyone, its not " the kind of proof I need to install complette confidence in me." So I don't look to install it in others who do not believe.

I need more from God, and he knows it. I need rock solid mind accepting, inner being knowing that I really know. Its not that God couldnot provide that, he could, but God, is God, he has his own agenda. His own ways, his own will and timetable. And NOTHING anyone can think or do will change that. Why should God, who is infinte and all powerful, try to explain something to an finite being he created, that would open their mind to whats really going on? How could a being with no power, understand things that are off their scale of even comprehending? God knows this,

And I have discovered that he is in no hurry to do things, hes got all the time in our world, and his.

His patience is just like that.

Peace.

Okay, just thought I'd mention it cause it seems different somehow and people seem to like it. It's actually called "A Course in Miracles" and is supposed to be interesting.

 

[mickiel]

Okay, just thought I'd mention it cause it seems different somehow and people seem to like it. It's actually called "A Course in Miracles" and is supposed to be interesting.

Well I understand the intrest, Miracles would be interesting. The bible foretells of a time that God will send them again on into our future, I just think its something he has not done for this present age, at least not in abundance, not to say none are occuring. I just think those kinds of things will be made evident for " All to see", not just a few. Like the moon turning into blood, or whole lakes and rivers turning into blood. Something nobody could deny.

Like 50 people being killed, and come back to life days later.

Peace.