The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[challupa]

Well I understand the intrest, Miracles would be interesting. The bible foretells of a time that God will send them again on into our future, I just think its something he has not done for this present age, at least not in abundance, not to say none are occuring. I just think those kinds of things will be made evident for " All to see", not just a few. Like the moon turning into blood, or whole lakes and rivers turning into blood. Something nobody could deny.

Like 50 people being killed, and come back to life days later.

Peace.

Yes, okay, I see what you mean. I hope you find what you seek!

 

[whatistruth07]

Webster’s unabridged dictionary tells us that hell corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades. It also says that hell comes from the English word helan, meaning “to conceal.” So we have found that the early meaning of the word “hell” carried no thought of any kind of heat. It merely meant “concealed.” We have found, too, that the original Hebrew word, usually translated “hell” in English Bibles, is Sheol. Now what does Sheol mean? It simply means “a hollow place.” So the original Hebrew word perfectly corresponds with the original or early meaning of the English word “hell.”

Now that the clergy have put fire into the word “hell,” the vital question is, Did the inspired Hebrew Bible writers say that conscious life and red-hot activity exist in Sheol or hell? No, quite the opposite! Instead of blazing fire it is described as a “land of darkness.” (Job 10:21) Instead of a place of soul-chilling shrieks it is described as a place of “silence.” (Ps. 115:17) The Catholic Douay Bible, at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, says: “The living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more. Neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge, shall be in hell [Sheol, AS], whither thou art hastening.” So, since the “dead know nothing more,” or as the King James Version says, “the dead know not any thing,” it would be impossible for them to know conscious torment. And since there is no work in hell, how can there be activity, red-hot or otherwise?

JACOB, JONAH, JOB AND JESUS

Now let us examine what Jacob said concerning hell. After hearing that his son had seemingly been killed by a beast, Jacob said: “I will go down to my son into hell [Sheol, AS], mourning.” (Gen. 37:35, Dy) Did Jacob visualize his son in a steaming, scorching fire? And did Jacob expect to go to such a place? Clearly, Jacob did not view hell as being red-hot.

After the prophet Jonah had been swallowed by a big fish, Jonah prayed: “I cried out of the belly of hell [Sheol, AS]: and thou hast heard my voice.” (Jonas 2:3, Dy) Was it red-hot where Jonah was? No, it must have been damp and dark, although warm at fish-body temperature. Jonah spoke the way he did because he understood hell or Sheol to be the grave. For, had not Jehovah delivered him, the fish’s belly would certainly have become Jonah’s grave. If hell were eternal, Jonah would not have gotten out.

Job was a faithful servant of God. Trying to break Job’s integrity, the Devil placed Job in a miserable state of affairs. So the suffering Job prayed to God: “Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [Sheol, AS], and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?” (Job 14:13, Dy) Since Job was already being tormented by the Devil, would he pray to be “protected” in, of all places, a Devil-managed compartment of red-hot coals? Hardly! Job would not pray to go from the frying pan into the fire! Job understood hell to be the common grave of mankind where he would rest until the resurrection.

The prophet Amos records Jehovah’s words to those who would try to escape the Almighty’s wrath: “Though they go down even to hell, thence shall my hand bring them out.” (Amos 9:2, Dy) Would the wicked, trying with all their might to flee from the wrath of God, dig into a place that would bring them only red-hot torture?

Jehovah said: “They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded not, neither came it into my mind.” (Jer. 7:31, AS) Fiendishness does not even enter the mind of the Creator. And no wonder, for “God is love.”—1 John 4:8.

 

[mickiel]

Webster’s unabridged dictionary tells us that hell corresponds to the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades. It also says that hell comes from the English word helan, meaning “to conceal.” So we have found that the early meaning of the word “hell” carried no thought of any kind of heat. It merely meant “concealed.” We have found, too, that the original Hebrew word, usually translated “hell” in English Bibles, is Sheol. Now what does Sheol mean? It simply means “a hollow place.” So the original Hebrew word perfectly corresponds with the original or early meaning of the English word “hell.”

Now that the clergy have put fire into the word “hell,” the vital question is, Did the inspired Hebrew Bible writers say that conscious life and red-hot activity exist in Sheol or hell? No, quite the opposite! Instead of blazing fire it is described as a “land of darkness.” (Job 10:21) Instead of a place of soul-chilling shrieks it is described as a place of “silence.” (Ps. 115:17) The Catholic Douay Bible, at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, says: “The living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more. Neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten. Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge, shall be in hell [Sheol, AS], whither thou art hastening.” So, since the “dead know nothing more,” or as the King James Version says, “the dead know not any thing,” it would be impossible for them to know conscious torment. And since there is no work in hell, how can there be activity, red-hot or otherwise?

JACOB, JONAH, JOB AND JESUS

Now let us examine what Jacob said concerning hell. After hearing that his son had seemingly been killed by a beast, Jacob said: “I will go down to my son into hell [Sheol, AS], mourning.” (Gen. 37:35, Dy) Did Jacob visualize his son in a steaming, scorching fire? And did Jacob expect to go to such a place? Clearly, Jacob did not view hell as being red-hot.

After the prophet Jonah had been swallowed by a big fish, Jonah prayed: “I cried out of the belly of hell [Sheol, AS]: and thou hast heard my voice.” (Jonas 2:3, Dy) Was it red-hot where Jonah was? No, it must have been damp and dark, although warm at fish-body temperature. Jonah spoke the way he did because he understood hell or Sheol to be the grave. For, had not Jehovah delivered him, the fish’s belly would certainly have become Jonah’s grave. If hell were eternal, Jonah would not have gotten out.

Job was a faithful servant of God. Trying to break Job’s integrity, the Devil placed Job in a miserable state of affairs. So the suffering Job prayed to God: “Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [Sheol, AS], and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?” (Job 14:13, Dy) Since Job was already being tormented by the Devil, would he pray to be “protected” in, of all places, a Devil-managed compartment of red-hot coals? Hardly! Job would not pray to go from the frying pan into the fire! Job understood hell to be the common grave of mankind where he would rest until the resurrection.

The prophet Amos records Jehovah’s words to those who would try to escape the Almighty’s wrath: “Though they go down even to hell, thence shall my hand bring them out.” (Amos 9:2, Dy) Would the wicked, trying with all their might to flee from the wrath of God, dig into a place that would bring them only red-hot torture?

Jehovah said: “They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded not, neither came it into my mind.” (Jer. 7:31, AS) Fiendishness does not even enter the mind of the Creator. And no wonder, for “God is love.”—1 John 4:8.

Ahhhh. Its so refreshing to read the truth from time to time. Very well written.

Peace.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Ahhhh. Its so refreshing to read the truth from time to time. Very well written.

Peace.

As whatistruth07 did not provide the source to his "well written" post... allow me...
http://www.johnsussewell.com/Death&HadestoGiveUptheDead_IsHellHot.doc.

 

[mickiel]

I like it when people attack the truth, its structure, its real meaning, its power, its glory. It brings all kinds out of the woodwork. It grows characther, it gives opportunity to share even more truth.

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering needs to be attacked with a very strong oppisition, nothing wavering. Serious disagreement with it, not weak scarcasm. Its an evil doctrine which looks to effectively doom much of humanity, and teach that its Gods will to do so. A passive approach to this hellish belief is like allowing poision to mix into the water system of a city.

Peace.

 

[TheAceOfKnaves]

The Bible is the Word of God, not something owned by Christians. The word of God has not been labeled " The Christian bible in Heaven", only certain earthly people believe that. John 1:1, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, but most bibles call it the Revelation of John. Its not the revelation of John, its the Revelation of Jesus to John.

The bible, or the word of God, is for " The World", not for christians. Christians are just trying to usurp it as their own. Its their selfish pride of Life.

Peace.

Throughout the entire New Testsment, at the very least Paul makes many references to his and others believing in Christ and the Bible as being Christians. True, this is because they follow Christ, but why would you choose to believe only parts of any[/I] holy book? You have to accept the whole Bible as truth, or none of it, because partial belief is nonsensical. And yes, Christians have claimed the Bible as our holy book, because it is the book that is the story of our God, the one true God of the universe. It is to lead unbelievers to Him, but once you believe part of the Bible, it logically follows that you must believe all of it, and are therefore a Christian.

 

[logician]

Throughout the entire New Testsment, at the very least Paul makes many references to his and others believing in Christ and the Bible as being Christians. True, this is because they follow Christ, but why would you choose to believe only parts of any[/i] holy book? You have to accept the whole Bible as truth, or none of it, because partial belief is nonsensical. And yes, Christians have claimed the Bible as our holy book, because it is the book that is the story of our God, the one true God of the universe. It is to lead unbelievers to Him, but once you believe part of the Bible, it logically follows that you must believe all of it, and are therefore a Christian.

My way or the highway beliefs are fundamentally illogical.

 

[TheAceOfKnaves]

My way or the highway beliefs are fundamentally illogical.

It's not about "my way or the highway". It's about choosing to believe only what you want to believe out of a complete text. It would be like reading a history book and accepting that WWI happened, but not WWII, just because you think WWII was atrocious. That kind of belief, taking some of what a source says as truth and discarding the rest, is illogical.

 

[TheAceOfKnaves]

I like it when people attack the truth, its structure, its real meaning, its power, its glory. It brings all kinds out of the woodwork. It grows characther, it gives opportunity to share even more truth.

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering needs to be attacked with a very strong oppisition, nothing wavering. Serious disagreement with it, not weak scarcasm. Its an evil doctrine which looks to effectively doom much of humanity, and teach that its Gods will to do so. A passive approach to this hellish belief is like allowing poision to mix into the water system of a city.

Peace.

That's a very militant view, and yet at the end of each post you wish "Peace". Do you really?

 

[challupa]

I like it when people attack the truth, its structure, its real meaning, its power, its glory. It brings all kinds out of the woodwork. It grows characther, it gives opportunity to share even more truth.

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering needs to be attacked with a very strong oppisition, nothing wavering. Serious disagreement with it, not weak scarcasm. Its an evil doctrine which looks to effectively doom much of humanity, and teach that its Gods will to do so. A passive approach to this hellish belief is like allowing poision to mix into the water system of a city.

Peace.

Well I have to agree that hell is one of the more negative teachings religions condone and preach. I would like to see them let that go for sure.

 

[Enoch07]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Dante's book "Divine Comedy", is partially to blame. For some reason people accept it as almost Holy scripture when even the title is very tongue and cheek if you ask me. Hell is not a place of eternal torture. That is just a scare tactic people use to keep their congregations full. To be judged to Hell is to be consumed by God. You simply cease to exist. Retroactively as well. Your memory is blotted out from anyone that ever knew you. It is like you never existed. Why does God do this? Because He loves you so much that He would rather instantly put you out of your misery than allow you to suffer any longer.

 

[challupa]

Dante's book "Divine Comedy", is partially to blame. For some reason people accept it as almost Holy scripture when even the title is very tongue and cheek if you ask me. Hell is not a place of eternal torture. That is just a scare tactic people use to keep their congregations full. To be judged to Hell is to be consumed by God. You simply cease to exist. Retroactively as well. Your memory is blotted out from anyone that ever knew you. It is like you never existed. Why does God do this? Because He loves you so much that He would rather instantly put you out of your misery than allow you to suffer any longer.

So what happens to the person after that? Are they annihalated or are they God's themselves because they were consumed by God?

 

[mickiel]

Dante's book "Divine Comedy", is partially to blame. For some reason people accept it as almost Holy scripture when even the title is very tongue and cheek if you ask me. Hell is not a place of eternal torture. That is just a scare tactic people use to keep their congregations full. To be judged to Hell is to be consumed by God. You simply cease to exist. Retroactively as well. Your memory is blotted out from anyone that ever knew you. It is like you never existed. Why does God do this? Because He loves you so much that He would rather instantly put you out of your misery than allow you to suffer any longer.

Well I think it would be better for God to wipe out a person he does not want to exist, yes. Rather than torture them for eternity, such would be merciless dribble, and I don't see God as doing that. God judges that all humans must die, he has even appointed the time of their death. But what he will do after that, is what is confusing to people. Certain believers think that the lake of fire, is hell, which it is not. Hell is a grave, a place for the dead, but the lake of fire is a real place, but it is not for dead people. The bible is clear that " Live humans" are put into this lake. Death itself is put there, and certain angels who are demons.

The second death, is simply the death of the first death, death will be no more, it will cease to exist. So one purpose of this arcane lake , is to eliminate. Then the bible suggest that this lake was created for satan and his angels, and seems to suggest that they will remain alive in this lake forever. Now what of the humans obviously thrown into it?

Well the bible really is not clear on this, its just not. Barring devine revelation from God to understand it, its just not clear. So we must then rely on other things in scripture, to explain to us, just what is going to happen.

I think the " Key", is to focus on God himself. A righteous being like him, MUST hold other plans that we simply are missing. God is the key. Why did he create this great lake of fire? I only wish I knew, but I suspect it is more of a " Renewing and cleansing thing for humans, not destruction, because God has shown a tendency to forgive humans totally, complettely undeserved.

Never count out his incredible grace, it CAN save us all.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

Well I think it would be better for God to wipe out a person he does not want to exist, yes. Rather than torture them for eternity, such would be merciless dribble, and I don't see God as doing that. God judges that all humans must die, he has even appointed the time of their death. But what he will do after that, is what is confusing to people. Certain believers think that the lake of fire, is hell, which it is not. Hell is a grave, a place for the dead, but the lake of fire is a real place, but it is not for dead people. The bible is clear that " Live humans" are put into this lake. Death itself is put there, and certain angels who are demons.

The second death, is simply the death of the first death, death will be no more, it will cease to exist. So one purpose of this arcane lake , is to eliminate. Then the bible suggest that this lake was created for satan and his angels, and seems to suggest that they will remain alive in this lake forever. Now what of the humans obviously thrown into it?

Well the bible really is not clear on this, its just not. Barring devine revelation from God to understand it, its just not clear. So we must then rely on other things in scripture, to explain to us, just what is going to happen.

I think the " Key", is to focus on God himself. A righteous being like him, MUST hold other plans that we simply are missing. God is the key. Why did he create this great lake of fire? I only wish I knew, but I suspect it is more of a " Renewing and cleansing thing for humans, not destruction, because God has shown a tendency to forgive humans totally, complettely undeserved.

Never count out his incredible grace, it CAN save us all.

Peace.

Mickiel, your argument is basically, "God seems like a nice guy; he wouldn't do that."

How many times have neighbors of serial killers said the exact same thing? Just because someone seems nice doesn't mean they ARE nice. You have to look at the evidence. And in this case, the evidence clearly shows that god tortures people eternally.

 

[Enoch07]

So what happens to the person after that? Are they annihalated or are they God's themselves because they were consumed by God?

To be consumed by God is to be erased completely. You cease to exist your own mother does not remember you, your kids will not remember you, it is like you never existed to begin with.

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel, your argument is basically, "God seems like a nice guy; he wouldn't do that."

How many times have neighbors of serial killers said the exact same thing? Just because someone seems nice doesn't mean they ARE nice. You have to look at the evidence. And in this case, the evidence clearly shows that god tortures people eternally.

Well your close to being right, I do think God is a nice being. My senses about the whole thing is that God Loves us all, simply because he can't help himself, thats just how he is. And his Love will save us all.

Peace.

 

[Imagist]

Well your close to being right, I do think God is a nice being. My senses about the whole thing is that God Loves us all, simply because he can't help himself, thats just how he is. And his Love will save us all.

Peace.

Does it occur that just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true?

 

[challupa]

To be consumed by God is to be erased completely. You cease to exist your own mother does not remember you, your kids will not remember you, it is like you never existed to begin with.

Do you remember God and does he remember you?

 

[mickiel]

Does it occur that just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true?

I am going to go by my feelings, nobodyelses. If its one thing I trust more than anythingelse, its my own feelings.

Peace.

 

[bluZero]

Does it occur that just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true?

It was found out that you and your ppl do have a Holiday. It is April 1!

(Pss 14:1) To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David. The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.

Do not bother to thank me. Just a heads up.: