The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mohammed_beiruti]

to avoid God's displeasure you have to know the consequences of doing so.

 

[Muffled]

Well thats what I am saying, he helped you without punishing you. Don't you think with all the power God has, that if he was fear monger, wanting to strike fear in his creations, he could scare us all in seconds like never before. He could lash out pure unadulterated dead kill fear, but God is not like that. In Romans 2:4, it is Kindness, forbearance and Patience with Goodness that God uses to lead those to repent that he is ready to grant them that. This is what God uses to change people, and its what he is going to use to change this world.

Peace.

I sincerely believe that God prefers positive motivation but the reality is that it doesn't work for everyone. It worked for me because I sought good but not everyone is seeking good. In truth before I was saved I wan't actively seeking good. It was only when bad things started happening to me that I was motivated to seek good. So it makes a lot of sense for God to allow bad things to happen so something good can come of it. However some evils have to be eliminated and God does that. Worshipping idols was an evil that God worked hard to eliminate and it appears He has succeded. If His methods seem a bit drastic, so does a doctor's methods when he amputates a leg to save the the person's life. (Jesus mentioned this)

 

[mickiel]

I sincerely believe that God prefers positive motivation but the reality is that it doesn't work for everyone. It worked for me because I sought good but not everyone is seeking good. In truth before I was saved I wan't actively seeking good. It was only when bad things started happening to me that I was motivated to seek good. So it makes a lot of sense for God to allow bad things to happen so something good can come of it. However some evils have to be eliminated and God does that. Worshipping idols was an evil that God worked hard to eliminate and it appears He has succeded. If His methods seem a bit drastic, so does a doctor's methods when he amputates a leg to save the the person's life. (Jesus mentioned this)

The bible is clear that this world will end in some horrible 7 sealed destruction heaped on humanity, but thats just those of us who are alive at that time, the vast majority of humanity that has ever lived, is now dead. They will not have to suffer the pains of those comming last days. Why would God ressurect billions of humans, just to torture and punish them? What kind of being do you think God is?

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The bible is clear that this world will end in some horrible 7 sealed destruction heaped on humanity, but thats just those of us who are alive at that time, the vast majority of humanity that has ever lived, is now dead. They will not have to suffer the pains of those comming last days. Why would God ressurect billions of humans, just to torture and punish them? What kind of being do you think God is?

Peace.

First, when Jesus takes action (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15) it is against the wicked -Psalm 92:7. The destruction is by the words from Jesus mouth described as being like an executioner's sword against those against him. Please notice the great crowd of people from all nations at Rev 7:9,10,14 are saved or delivered from the great tribulation. (Matt 24:21). So destruction is not 'heaped' on all humanity otherwise it would not be good news for the humble meek that will inherit the earth. -Psalm 37:11,29,38.

Plus, please don't forget Romans 6:7. Since death is the price we pay for sin then as Romans 6:7 says the one that has died is freed or acquitted from sin. (with only the small exception of Matthew 12:32;Hebrews 6:4-6) Freed or acquitted does not necessarily mean innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person would mean the charges no longer stick.

Even though the sin charges no longer apply, no one can resurrect oneself or another so we need Jesus to do that for us and he will. (Acts 24:15) Who did Jesus punish or torture after he resurrected them? We know it was no one, so why think Jesus would be different during his thousand-year reign?

First, recall until God resurrected him Jesus was buried in hell. Acts 2:27,31.
What did Jesus believe he would be doing in hell? Jesus believed the Hebrew OT Scriptures and often referred to them. King Solomon wrote the dead are Not conscious of anything at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10. Jesus would have known that. The Psalmist equated death to deep sleep- Ps 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.
That is why Jesus also likened death to sleep- John 11:11.


Please notice, at what point, hell and death are destroyed in symbolic second death at Revelation 20:13,14 Hell and death are destroyed only after those buried in hell are delivered up. So it is after hell (the common grave of mankind) is 'emptied out' that hell (gravedom) is destroyed. One can have a resurrection from a first death (death do to imperfection), but there is no resurrection or further existence from second death.

Please notice verse 13 B because the dead are judged according to their works 'after' the resurrection. In other words, works done after they are resurrected. Not works done before the resurrection because Romans 6:7 shows they paid the price for those works, and now have a clean slate, so to speak, to do works based on the knowledge they gain after their resurrection.

Torment, not torture, in Scripture is linked to being jailed. Compare Rev 20:10 with Matthew 18:30,34. So the torment for Satan is forever meaning jailed in second death forever. It is another way of saying that Jesus (Hebrews 2:14B) destroys Satan with a fatal bruise to his head in fulfillment of Genesis 3:15.

Those resurrected on earth like Abel will experience curing for the nations as Revelation 22:2 says in fulfillment to the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed.- Genesis 12:3; 22:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

to avoid God's displeasure you have to know the consequences of doing so.

Good point. For some reason some can't be reached because they can't be informed or be made aware so they are destitute of knowledge and information.They would be invincibly ignorant due to no fault of their own imperfection.
Whereas others are blameworthy because they are culpably ignorant because they choose to deliberately ignore. Hebrews 10:26; 6:4-6.

It would appear with with perfection, both angelic and human perfection, that they could have an instant discernment to be able to make up their mind immediately, and once they do sin they never change back or repent or show remorse or sorrow for sin.

Apparently since Matthew (24:14) says the good news of God's kingdom will be proclaimed world wide (globally) before the end of all badness on earth comes, then there will be no one left that was not warned or reached in some way. Ezekiel (3:18-21) brings to our attention even the righteous will be warned before Jesus takes action.
-Isaiah 11:4; Revelation 19:11,15.

 

[mickiel]

First, when Jesus takes action (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15) it is against the wicked -Psalm 92:7. The destruction is by the words from Jesus mouth described as being like an executioner's sword against those against him. Please notice the great crowd of people from all nations at Rev 7:9,10,14 are saved or delivered from the great tribulation. (Matt 24:21). So destruction is not 'heaped' on all humanity otherwise it would not be good news for the humble meek that will inherit the earth. -Psalm 37:11,29,38.

Plus, please don't forget Romans 6:7. Since death is the price we pay for sin then as Romans 6:7 says the one that has died is freed or acquitted from sin. (with only the small exception of Matthew 12:32;Hebrews 6:4-6) Freed or acquitted does not necessarily mean innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person would mean the charges no longer stick.

Even though the sin charges no longer apply, no one can resurrect oneself or another so we need Jesus to do that for us and he will. (Acts 24:15) Who did Jesus punish or torture after he resurrected them? We know it was no one, so why think Jesus would be different during his thousand-year reign?

First, recall until God resurrected him Jesus was buried in hell. Acts 2:27,31.
What did Jesus believe he would be doing in hell? Jesus believed the Hebrew OT Scriptures and often referred to them. King Solomon wrote the dead are Not conscious of anything at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10. Jesus would have known that. The Psalmist equated death to deep sleep- Ps 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.
That is why Jesus also likened death to sleep- John 11:11.


Please notice, at what point, hell and death are destroyed in symbolic second death at Revelation 20:13,14 Hell and death are destroyed only after those buried in hell are delivered up. So it is after hell (the common grave of mankind) is 'emptied out' that hell (gravedom) is destroyed. One can have a resurrection from a first death (death do to imperfection), but there is no resurrection or further existence from second death.

Please notice verse 13 B because the dead are judged according to their works 'after' the resurrection. In other words, works done after they are resurrected. Not works done before the resurrection because Romans 6:7 shows they paid the price for those works, and now have a clean slate, so to speak, to do works based on the knowledge they gain after their resurrection.

Torment, not torture, in Scripture is linked to being jailed. Compare Rev 20:10 with Matthew 18:30,34. So the torment for Satan is forever meaning jailed in second death forever. It is another way of saying that Jesus (Hebrews 2:14B) destroys Satan with a fatal bruise to his head in fulfillment of Genesis 3:15.

Those resurrected on earth like Abel will experience curing for the nations as Revelation 22:2 says in fulfillment to the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed.- Genesis 12:3; 22:18.

All life will be preserved by God, no human is destined to be lost.

Peace.

 

[LittleNipper]

All life will be preserved by God, no human is destined to be lost.

Peace.

This is true, some will be preserved in the lake of fire and others in the new heaven and new earth. GOD will always know where everyone is.

 

[mickiel]

This is true, some will be preserved in the lake of fire and others in the new heaven and new earth. GOD will always know where everyone is.

All humans are destined to be with God, he wants all of us to be with him. We all are part of him, human Consciousness is actually the inner parts of God that he brought out of him. And his gift will be individual life consciousness to every human. That consciousness can never die, because it came from God.

Peace.

 

[shadze]

This is true, some will be preserved in the lake of fire and others in the new heaven and new earth. GOD will always know where everyone is.

This is not what scripture teaches as I have debated in the last few pages.

God saves ALL. Wether you like it or not. You stop at the punishment and have no care after the the lake of fire. The lake is to purify all beings . God will is that all men are to be saved. Stupid people think that God created creation so most of it will go up in smoke. What a Joke . After all God is not that foolish. From the beggining his plan was to save all. He accomplished this by the sacrifice Of christ Jesus. This is the only reason he allowed adam and eve to leave the garden. If God knew most of his creation would be destroyed he would of simply destroyed foolish adam and eve and created a another perfect pair. There was a lot of dust and spirit. It was Adam and eve that brought sin in this world not thier children. They deserved to die for thier sins not thier children. If we were born without sin as adam and eve maybe you might have a point. But no we were victims of thier sin. We had NO CHIOCE to be born into
Sin as we have NO Chioce that we will be saved. As scripture teaches sin enter through the world by one man and thru another the world is saved.

 

[mickiel]

In matt. 25:41, Jesus said the lake of fire was " Prepared for the devil and his demons." Why is Christianity preparing it for humans? The lake was conceived for demons, humans are not demons. But Christianity likes to treat humans as if they are demons, and desire for humans to share the same fate as demons. Why would God prepare something for a demon, then turn around and expose humans to it?

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What is the definition of the lake of fire?_____________

According to Revelation the lake of fire is not literal fire but death: The second death.

What is the first death we all experience?

Jesus believed the dead experience 'sleep' (RIP) because Jesus equated death with sleep at John 11:11.

Jesus knew the Hebrew OT Scriptures. King Solomon wrote the dead know nothing (Ecc 9:5). The Psalmist wrote the dead sleep and don't have thoughts (Ps 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4)

Fire is used to symbolize 'second' death because second death is the punishment of destruction. 2nd Thess 1:9 equates punishment with everlasting destruction.

Doesn't Jesus 'destroy' Satan at Hebrews 2:14 B?

Doesn't Jesus deal Satan's head a fatal death bruise? Genesis 3:15.

Death is the price or wages sin pays. Isn't Satan a sinner? So Satan is not death proof or immortal but will pay the price for his sins in the 'second' death of no returning.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

All life will be preserved by God, no human is destined to be lost.

Peace.

How do you explain the unforgivable sin that will Not be forgiven in the world to come as Matthew 12:32 says?

How do you explain the impossibility of renewing to repentance those of Hebrews 6:4-6?

How do you explain those that are destroyed with capital punishment by the words from Jesus mouth that will act as an executioner's sword at Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15 ?

 

[shadze]

you still preaching that unforgivable sin rubbish. Do you just quote it as it is the heart of your doctrine. Knowing that your God is weak justifys your belief. You spout paganism.
As I quote again the unforgivable sin is just a sin. In Gods eyes all sin is sin. Thier are no big sins or little sins why. Quite simply sins wages is Death .Throw away your beliefs they are cruelty and waste and embrace the true word. Christ came to save all.

 

[mickiel]

How do you explain the unforgivable sin that will Not be forgiven in the world to come as Matthew 12:32 says?quote

I think the sin willnot be forgiven in this age, because this age is set to continue in sin. Not in the age to come because those sinners willnot be alive in the next planned age. But in the age after that, all sin will be eliminated, which is just another way of saying " Forgiven."

How do you explain the impossibility of renewing to repentance those of Hebrews 6:4-6? quote

By knowing and accepting that with God, All things are possible.


quote
How do you explain those that are destroyed with capital punishment by the words from Jesus mouth that will act as an executioner's sword at Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15 ?

That the same mouth can still forgive sin anytime he so " Pleases." But thats the greater question, how much sin will Jesus forgive? Is there a limit to his forgiveness, and, if its based on " What he Pleases", then I think that gives sinful humanity a chance to be forgiven, because I think he " Pleases to do that."

Peace.

 

[dragynfly0515]

You spout paganism.

What's wrong with paganism?

Throw away your beliefs they are cruelty and waste and embrace the true word.

How does one ascertain what the true word is?

:candle:
Crys

 

[Brother2]

Well hi guys and gals.

Glad to see you equate death with Sleep:sleep:...yeah Biblical and Words of our Lord Jesus!
Which in turn leads to the First Resurection at the Second Coming and then the Second resurection at the end of the millenium or thousand years... :sad4:

I think I prefer to be in the 1st one guys? What about you? :yes:

unforgivable sin? Well when One has no more desire to accept Christ as Ones Saviour and harden Ones heart til One has Chosen 'no more hope'...... ...course while there is life there is Hope....:yes:

 

[Muffled]

The bible is clear that this world will end in some horrible 7 sealed destruction heaped on humanity, but thats just those of us who are alive at that time, the vast majority of humanity that has ever lived, is now dead. They will not have to suffer the pains of those comming last days. Why would God ressurect billions of humans, just to torture and punish them? What kind of being do you think God is?

Peace.

I will grant that this isn't everybody alive at the time because then there wouldn't be a resurrection of the dead.

More than likely thousands of times but the large population of the earth at present suggests that most people are now living.

That sounds like a self explanatory statement.

Loving and just.

What is lacking in your view of the end times is The Rapture which gets people off earth before it is destroyed. It is one last chance for people to repent and go with God before the end.

 

[Muffled]

In matt. 25:41, Jesus said the lake of fire was " Prepared for the devil and his demons." Why is Christianity preparing it for humans? The lake was conceived for demons, humans are not demons. But Christianity likes to treat humans as if they are demons, and desire for humans to share the same fate as demons. Why would God prepare something for a demon, then turn around and expose humans to it?

Peace.

The whole verse: Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

In case you didn't read the whole thing the people on the left hand aren't the devil or his angels. So this simply is saying those who do not choose Jesus as Savior share the same fate as the devil.

 

[Brother2]

Hi y'all...we serve a Wonderful Creator Saviour God folks!!:bow:

Bible been so Misinterpreted as regards Hell and Hellfire...Yes that Wicked, the devil and Satan that deceived the Whole World and all those who Choose to follow him and reject the Free Gift of Salvation offered by our Lord Jesus...How could Anyone of Us refuse that Eternal Wonderful Gift of 'life more Abundantly' in this world and Eternal Happiness in the New World our Lord Jesus is Ready to RE Create?? Say:yes:

Hell is NOT Eternal folks...yes the Punishment is Eternal...but NOT the Punishing folks!!:shout
Praise His Name we serve a God of Love...everyone won't be saved because we have Free Will and Free Choice...but He would never Allow his Prodigals to Burn Forever and Ever...so much Misinterpretation by the father of lies...the fallen archangel:angel2:...who is already defeated by our Lord at the Ressurection...and wants to take as many as he can with him to Eternal Punishment in Hellfire...BUT NOT Eternal Punishing folks..........:shout

Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2

 

[dragynfly0515]

Hi y'all...we serve a Wonderful Creator Saviour God folks!!:bow:

Bible been so Misinterpreted as regards Hell and Hellfire...Yes that Wicked, the devil and Satan that deceived the Whole World and all those who Choose to follow him and reject the Free Gift of Salvation offered by our Lord Jesus...How could Anyone of Us refuse that Eternal Wonderful Gift of 'life more Abundantly' in this world and Eternal Happiness in the New World our Lord Jesus is Ready to RE Create?? Say:yes:

Hell is NOT Eternal folks...yes the Punishment is Eternal...but NOT the Punishing folks!!:shout
Praise His Name we serve a God of Love...everyone won't be saved because we have Free Will and Free Choice...but He would never Allow his Prodigals to Burn Forever and Ever...so much Misinterpretation by the father of lies...the fallen archangel:angel2:...who is already defeated by our Lord at the Ressurection...and wants to take as many as he can with him to Eternal Punishment in Hellfire...BUT NOT Eternal Punishing folks..........:shout

Shalom. May God bless all here. brother2

"Where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched" sounds pretty eternal to me. A pretty steep price to pay for picking the wrong religion. If that's the case, I choose the fire.
By the way, capitalizing everything and framing it in smilies does not make it Truth.

:candle:
Crys