The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[shadze]

What is the 'punishment' mentioned at 2nd Thessalonians 1:9?__________
Please notice that punishment is equated to 'everlasting destruction'.

There is no eternal suffering. Eternal destruction is what Adam experienced.
Adam was from dust and his punishment was returning to the dust.
From non-existence Adam returned to non-existence.

Doesn't Psalm 92:7 mention that the punishment for the wicked is being destroyed forever?______ When Jesus promised the humble meek would inherit the earth he referred to Psalm 37:11. That Psalm also says in verse 29 the righteous (not wicked) will dwell therein forever. Verse 38 shows the end of the wicked will be cut off. Proverbs (2:21,22) shows the upright remain but the wicked are cut off and rooted out. Prov (10:30) says the righteous will not be moved, but the wicked will not inherit the earth. Verse 7 even mentions the name of the wicked one will rot, and verse 27 the life of the wicked will be shortened. The wicked do not inherit everlasting life anywhere either in heaven or earth, but end in everlasting death in destruction. Even wicked Satan does not have everlasting life but according to Hebrews (2:14 B) Jesus destroys Satan. So sinner Satan is not death proof. Proverbs (21:18) says the wicked will be a ransom for the righteous.

So the definition of hell in harmony with Scripture is the common grave where as Jesus believed is a sleeping place. See John 11:11; Acts 2:27,31.
God IS love and love does not torture endlessly. The living know we will die but the dead according to Ecclesiastes (9:5,10) know nothing. Like Adam the wicked will be destroyed and know nothing ever again. The resurrection according to Acts (24:15) is for the just and unjust, not the wicked. Those alive or living when Jesus takes action (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:15) will be separated as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. See Matthew (25:32,46) and the goat-like ones go away into everlasting punishment, or as 2nd Thess 1:9 calls punishment: everlasting destruction. On the other hand, the sheep-like ones into everlasting existence.

We are not debating punishment we are debating salvation. Yes poeple will be punished for sin yet after punishment they will be saved. Also you have ignored
thier is no everlasting in Greek or hebrew they both mean a period of time.

More on Hell as part of the saving of all men:
(A lot of pain with unexpected love.)

1 Cor 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Each man shall eventually be saved by passing through the lake of fire, a purifying but very painful experience. You will have nothing to show for the time you spent on earth. All will have been wasted and for nothing. Luke 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Notice some receive less quantity of stripes, (figure of speech, describing punishment), than others - defining less time of pain - defining an end to pain - defining an end to Hell for an individual; the time in the fire based what they did while on earth. And how does one get out of Hell? by long, long pleading to the Lord Jesus Christ, (the savior of all men) to purify them, after the last penny, ( figure of speech describing penalty), has been paid.... Everyone will be taught of God. Every knee will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

But, people who don't find holiness in this life "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Th 1:9. Notice he does not say destruction of life or torture, just from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his power - that is the eternal punishment. There is the Kingdom of Heaven, and the heaven after hell, but a heaven isolated from the presence and glory of the Lord. Stephen Crisp, an eminent early Quaker minister said: "The outward court of the temple was for representing the church of God in general, from the particular; the outward court was not measured, that the gentiles might come in; the unbaptized [did not have the baptism of death by fire, resulting in a circumcised heart] people, who were never regenerated, they might come so far as the outward court, but this did not entitle them to the privileges of the house of God, nor to any worship or sacrifice that was accepted upon God's altar."
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mat 10:28. The Him is God. Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come; and worship him that made heaven, and earth, Rev 14:7.

 

[shadze]

Those not purified, those dying in their sins, all must pass through the lake of fire, commonly called Hell; (but not really Hell, because Hell and death are also cast into the lake of fire)*; but the spirit lives forever and eventually leaves Hell to a much better life than earth. To lose your soul is to lose that part of God within every man, Christ the Light, that could have been united with the fullness of Christ, to have become a Son of God.

*Notice! Hell, (or Hades) itself is cast into the lake of fire, to be done away with, like death, Rev 20:14 ; so the Lord is going to do away with Hell (or Hades) itself, once it serves its purpose of purification.
​

The soul having been united with Christ, then lives in a higher dimension of love and Life than to live in spirit only. The Lord names this reward "the kingdom of God;" it is a reward that is beyond man's imagination, beyond the words of earth to describe. Man must give up his entire life to God; in exchange God gives man himself - the greatest gift imaginable, but without our understanding until God is fully known.

Everyone will deeply regret forever that they did not obtain purification while living on earth, for two reasons: 1) the pain of Hell, that will seem like forever, and 2) the loss of their soul with the eternal loss of the kingdom. Those with the deepest regrets will be those who called themselves Christians, had the promise before their eyes continually, and who did not seek the righteousness of God and his Kingdom as their highest priority in life - those who thought Jesus was an excuse for sin rather than He who would destroy the sin in them - those who ignored his command to be perfect as your Father in heaven in perfect - those who were content to live in their flesh, worshiping in the false church of Babylon.

What you may not know is that you are now living on the earth in a cursed existence, the curse of Adam's fall, cut off from union with God; everything is relative. So your life can be better than earth after Hell, but nothing like it could have been; and you will see those who are enjoying the higher dimension; therefore, even after Hell, you will be continually aware that you live in a comparative state of punishment, which you will understand to be totally just and fair.
Yes, there is a Hell. It is very uncomfortable, to say the least. It is not like Dante's inferno. It is not physical fire and brimstone; these are physical symbols of the spiritual, for example: "Our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:29. There is also a burning within you to do something; the burning of lust, as described in Romans 1:27, but in a burning intensity greater than you have ever known. It is raging obsession. It is hyper sin city - complete mutual rage, complete mutual lust, etc. The brimstone, sulphur, (when burned sulphur produces sulphur dioxide, used for purification and bleaching), symbolizes a spiritual purification agent. I was taken there because I prayed, sincerely doubting there was a Hell. This is what I felt and saw:

1) I was in a cavern underground. It was totally dark. I knew I was being hunted by someone else. I knew I was hunting him. It was kill or be killed. There was a lot of fear and adrenalin. Suddenly it was light, and in front of me was the person I was hunting and who had been hunting me. We clubbed each other frantically. The light went out. I was in a cavern underground. It was totally dark. I knew I was being hunted ........ a loop that I felt like was going to go on forever.
2) I was then immediately transferred to a lighted cavern, escorted, with hallways and rooms off to the side. In each room was a nude woman and a bed. The only woman I saw was still somewhat attractive, but looked very tired and used to the point that her skin was beginning to dry and ripple slightly. I knew, without having to participate, that this was perpetual sex with someone in each room. I knew that this would go on, over and over and over and would at least seem like "forever." It was not appealing. It was not sickening. It just was. That was the end of my experience in Hell. It was enough to convince me it was real.
​

The Lord once told me "if one man's sin can curse the whole human race, then how much more just is it for one man's righteousness to pay for the sins of the whole world." Sounds logical doesn't it? HE IS LOGICAL. And the scriptural proof of his statement to me is:

Well then, as one man's trespass [one man's false step and falling away led] to condemnation for all men, so one Man's act of righteousness [leads] to acquittal and right standing with God and life for all men. Romans 5:18
​

In the presence of the Father, I was told by Him: "every man and woman is precious; every person will be brought back to Him in reconciliation; every word spoken, every action taken by everyone leads them to God." I could see and feel the infinite wisdom of God and how all ways led to God; and I could see and understand how this life was an illusion because it was nothing but a way to God for each and all; it was overwhelming; it was the greatest experience of my life to date. I could only see a cloud, but I could feel his mighty streams of power; it was like stepping into a strong river of wisdom, seeing clearly the infinite truth, logic, and reality of everything he told me. I also found the Father to be full of joy, happy, forgiving, and in control beyond what we can at best imagine. What we are learning in this life, all of us, will eventually lead each of us back to God - some obviously a longer, more difficult process than others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....it will Not be forgiven him, neither in this world , neither in the world to come... Matt 12:32

...For it is impossible...if they should fall away to renew them again to repentance...Heb 6:4,6

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Definition: Lake of Fire according to Revelation 20:14 is: second death.

Jude 12 talks of 'twice dead' being barren, fruitless, no vitality.

Is there vitality in death? According to King Solomon, who was known for his god-given wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes (9:5,10) that there is no vitality in death because the dead are Not conscious of anything. The dead know nothing.

Jesus believed the condition of the dead is like sleep- John 11:11
Jesus then believed what the Psalmist wrote that the dead sleep (Ps 6:5; 13:3; 115:17) Psalm 146:4 at death don't thoughts perish?

So, whoever is cast into the lake of fire (second death) of Rev 20:15 are cast into second death or no future life, because they are not in the 'book of life'. It is only after, who is not recorded in the book of life, that Rev 21:4 says there shall be No more death. Wouldn't that be No more death for those written in the book of life, and not for those not written in the book of life? Wouldn't No more death equate to life that is always lasting?

 

[shadze]

Are the Dead Destroyed?

In one sense, the dead are destroyed. In another sense they are not.
Physical body destroyed like a seed

The physical body of man returns to the dust of the ground, because it is made of dust (the elements of the soil) and like the bodies of animals and trees it is destined to return to the earth from which it came (Gen 3:19).
Although a most wonderful creation, the bodies of Adam and Eve were bodies suitable for this natural world, not for a spiritual, immortal, heavenly, eternal world.
The same is true of our bodies, which we have inherited from Adam and Eve by procreation. Earthly bodies are incompatible with heavenly glory. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1Co 15:50).
God promises new and immortal bodies, which are to our earthly bodies as a beautiful plant is to the seed that was buried to produce it. No dead person yet has such a body, but will receive it at the resurrection on the last day (1Co 15:51-54).
The only exception to that rule is the man Jesus. He has already been resurrected and become "the firstfruits of those who sleep". So Jesus has become the second Adam. Just as we have inherited our earthly bodies from the first Adam, so our heavenly bodies will become our inheritance through the second Adam (1Co 15:42-49).
The soul is not destroyed




The spiritual part of man is not destroyed at death. A person's soul or spirit, returns to God. Only God can destroy the soul, and for that reason we rightly fear Him and the everlasting fire he has prepared. However, he has prepared the everlasting fire for devil and his angels. He never intended it for mankind. Yet those who reject the second Adam will enter into that fire (Mtt 25:41).
Jesus knew that death does not destroy the spirit, and so he referred to death as a "sleep" (Jhn 11:11-14)..

Are the Dead Conscious?

Some people think that because the Bible speaks of death as a "sleep" that the spirit becomes unconscious of its surroundings. They point out that Solomon said, "The dead know nothing" (Ecc 9:5-6).
However in the same verse Solomon said that the dead "have no more reward" and yet we know the dead in Christ have an inheritance reserved in heaven (2Tm 4:8, 1Pe 1:4). This inheritance is the only thing a person can take out of this world. Solomon was speaking of that which is "under the sun" (Ecc 9:3), meaning that which is in this world.
The dead have no more reward in this world, and they know nothing of what is happening in this world "under the sun" because they no longer exist here. But they most certainly exist elsewhere. In fact the very point to be gained from the Bible's reference to dead people as being "asleep" is that they still exist and have not been annihilated. The question is simply whether or not they are conscious of their existence and surroundings in hades. The answer is simple too: We do not really know.


Are the Dead in a Final State?

The "final state" for some people will be eternal life in heaven. For others it will be eternal death in hell. We are asking whether the dead are now in their final state. For all intents and purposes, and for all the difference it makes, the answer could be yes. But in the correct order of "last things", the answer is no. The following chart is pertinent.

No Man Yet in Heaven or Hell

The saved are not yet in heaven

The saved will go to heaven at the second coming of Christ when the resurrection and the rapture take place (Jhn 14:1-3, 1Th 4:13-18).
The unsaved are not yet in hel

The unsaved will go to hell when the saved go to heaven. This becomes clear when we compare the "whens" with the "thens" in the passages about the second coming and the day of judgment (eg 2Th 1:6-10 Mtt 25:31,34,41,46).

Where Are the Dead?

The dead are in an obscure place called Hades or Sheol (cf Acts 2:27,31, Psa 16:10). The Bible pictures this place as the temporary abode of the dead until the resurrection.
The few mentions of this place in scripture are not very enlightening as to the nature of this place. The Greek name ´αδες hades may come from the prefix a- (meaning not) combined with oida (meaning "see" or "know"). Thus, Hades might mean "unseen" or "unknown" which is not much help!
The story of the rich man and Lazarus takes place in Hades (Lke 16:19-31). But our Lord pictures people there as having bodies, when we have already learned that the dead have lost their natural bodies, and do not yet have their immortal bodies. This raises speculation about how literal a picture Jesus intended to give us in the setting he provided for the story.
The point of telling the story, is not to inform us about what it is like to be dead, or what Hades looks like, but to show us that in Hades there is no opportunity to change one's eternal destiny (Rev 20:11-15). This life is the time to hear, believe, and obey God's word. It is issues like that which ought to be foremost. Questions of mere curiosity have a place. But don't let them distract you from the real life and death issues.

 

[shadze]

....it will Not be forgiven him, neither in this world , neither in the world to come... Matt 12:32

Christ has never said that the unforgivable sin wont ever be forgiven. He actually in this statement confirms a time that the unforgivable sin wont be forgiven. By doing this
he has confirmed there will be a time of unforgiveness - that unforgiveness is not forever.Becuase we dont really know what time Jesus is talking about or what the world to come is. The world to come could be our current age. Christ never said the NEW World to come or Kingdom come or even in his kingdom to come. So it is more correct to say he means at a future time in our history.

...For it is impossible...if they should fall away to renew them again to repentance...Heb 6:4,6

How on earth can someone repent after they died. Eventually they shall be judged -
Punished then redeemed .

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A person can repent after they are resurrected. Remember Romans 6:7 says the dead are freed or acquitted from sins. That does not mean innocent but as a governor can pardon someone that means the charges no longer stick.

Isn't 'death' the punishment (wages/price) that sin pays?

Yes, Jesus did teach us to pray for God's kingdom to come. Jesus did not say to pray to be taken up to the kingdom, or be taken away to the kingdom, but for the kingdom to come "Thy kingdom come". Then Jesus added God's will (purpose) to be done here as it is in heaven. God's will for heaven is peace. No one goes to heaven to be sick there, commit crimes, pollute heaven, etc. Since God's will for heaven is good conditions there, then aren't we praying for those same good conditions to be here?

Besides Jesus mentioning a world to come, Paul at Hebrews 2:5 also does.
What kind of world or system? 2nd Peter chapter 3 gives a clue by mentioning three (3) worlds or earths. In verse 5 Peter mentions the 'old' earth or world of Noah's day.
Verse 7 mentions our earth or world of 'now' or society that we live under 'now'
and verse 13 mentions the 'new' earth or world system where righteousness will dwell.

How can righteousness dwell then? Verse 7 shows the judgment or punishment is for the perdition or destruction of the ungodly. Jesus indicated that by his words at Matthew 5:5 that the meek would inherit the earth. That was not a new thought Jesus was presenting because Jesus was referring to old Psalm 37:11. There it brings out not only will the meek inherit earth but verse 29 indicates the length of time, and verse 38 that the wicked will be gone. Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30 also shows the upright 'remain' and the ungodly or wicked will be cut off from the earth.

Yes, this is future but with conditions being what they are that is not a distant future that we have to look forward. See Psalm 92:7.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew (13:34) says Jesus would not address the multitude without an illustration or parable.
So when Jesus was talking with the people he used illustrations or stories.

Luke 16:14 shows the Pharisees heard what Jesus was saying and derided him.
In verse 19 Jesus starts his parable or illustration that they could hear.
Since the story was a parable or illustration then it was Not literal.

Those Jews were to be part of Jesus 'bride' of Revelation. Verse 18 shows they were like an unfaithful bride or wife. The Pharisees were like the rich man, and beggar Lazarus was like the humble people that the Pharisees hated. There was a 'great gulf fixed' as verse 26 says, because in order to be Christ's bride or wife they would have to released from the Mosaic law and they would not do that in order to become part of the new covenant with Christ.

At John (11:11-14) Jesus did not make reference to Luke chapter 16 but his words were in harmony with the Hebrew OT Scriptures of Ecc. 9:5, Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.

 

[shadze]

Matthew (13:34) says Jesus would not address the multitude without an illustration or parable.
So when Jesus was talking with the people he used illustrations or stories.

Luke 16:14 shows the Pharisees heard what Jesus was saying and derided him.
In verse 19 Jesus starts his parable or illustration that they could hear.
Since the story was a parable or illustration then it was Not literal.

Those Jews were to be part of Jesus 'bride' of Revelation. Verse 18 shows they were like an unfaithful bride or wife. The Pharisees were like the rich man, and beggar Lazarus was like the humble people that the Pharisees hated. There was a 'great gulf fixed' as verse 26 says, because in order to be Christ's bride or wife they would have to released from the Mosaic law and they would not do that in order to become part of the new covenant with Christ.

At John (11:11-14) Jesus did not make reference to Luke chapter 16 but his words were in harmony with the Hebrew OT Scriptures of Ecc. 9:5, Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.

Why on earth would Christ speak of a parable that is contrary to scriptural beliefs and upsets your so called harmony.You can figuratively explain anything away to fit your incorrect beliefs. At the End of the Day the fruit your doctrine creates is monstriuos and impractical.

NFORGIVABLE SIN and God saving all It is often brought up by sincere Christians that if one commits the unforgiveable sin
that they therefore cannot be saved and thus, God cannot save all mankind.
But is this the case? Let us look at the facts.

There is no need for the Universalist to twist scripture to get God to save all.

Let us look at the time frame our Blessed Lord puts on this sin:

Matthew 12:31-32 CLV Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and
blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall
not be pardoned." (32) And whosoever may be saying a word against
the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying
aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in
this eon nor in that [eon] which is impending."


Mark 3:28-30 CLV Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned
the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming, (29) yet whoever should be
blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is
liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" (30) for they said, "An unclean
spirit has he."

One thing is certain, the person who committs this sin is not being pardoned for the eon
or the eon which is to come and in fact is liable to the eonian penalty which is the penalty
pertaining to the eons or ages.

The reason the Concordant Literal Version uses "pardon" here is because a pardon is
given by a high executive such as a governor or king. Even in our day if a person is in prison
and gets pardoned, he is released. If he is not pardoned then he is liable to fulfill the
remainder of his time until his release.
Thus it is with the unpardonable sin. It just will not be pardoned. It will not be pardoned in this eon/age
or the eon/age which is impending. So the person who committs this sin must do the full time for the crime.

So God can and will still save all mankind.

Oh, one more thing: these same sincere Christians who really want to honor God by believing
what He says really do believe: "Every sin and
blasphemy shall be pardoned men." I don't know of anyone who has committed this sin.
The hooker down the street or the whino. Every sin they committed will be pardoned. Christ said it.
I'm glad the sincere Christian believes it.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...givable-sin-god-saving-all.html#ixzz0Ue4ozdK9
​

 

[TheGodless1]

since I have only skimmed through these posts I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it but modern version of "hell" comes from Dante's Inferno. Since then many sermons in many churches use this vision of a fiery pit to distill fear into its constituents to make them lead better lives by God's words... In church once when I was 7 we watched a movie about the end of days where a men were beheaded if they were found not to be of the final 42,000.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Godless-

First, the end of days (2Tim 3:1-5,13) are the end days or last days of badness on earth before Jesus ushers in peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

Revelation (14:1) talks not of 42,000 but 144,00. They are pictured with the Lamb aka Jesus and they are pictured on Mount Zion. This Mount Zion according to Hebrews (12:22) is not old earthly Jerusalem, but new heavenly Jerusalem located in the heavens of course. Revelation (5:9,10) shows they have been bought or redeemed from earth to serve with Jesus as both kings and priests. They are 'firstfruits' as Revelation (14:3,4) calls these redeemed ones. They are part of the first resurrection of Rev. (20:5,6)

Since they have an earlier resurrection which is a 'heavenly resurrection' they serve as kings that will take care of governmental duties, and they serve as priests who will take care of spiritual duties. Earthly Jerusalem was the seat of government in Jesus day, and during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth heavenly Jerusalem's rule being part of God's heavenly kingdom (Daniel 7:13,14;2:44; Isaiah 9:7) will bring benefits down to earth (Rev 3:12; 21:2). They will have as 'earthly subjects' to God's kingdom the resurrected humble meek that will inherit the earth after Jesus destroys all wickedness on earth. (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:15) besides the living great multitude on earth that survive or are saved through the last days of badness on earth as Revelation (7:9,10,14) describes.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1st Thess (4:13-18) is talking about those who are 'asleep' in the grave.
(Ecc 9:5,10; Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4)

Verse 16 says Jesus will shout with the loud voice of the one and only archangel (Jude 9) and the dead in Christ will be resurrected first. (Firstfruits) (Rev 3:12;20:5,6) Those that are alive when Jesus takes action those firstfruits are the ones to serve as kings and priests with him in heaven. 1st Cor, (15:23) says every man in his own order. Christ the firstfruits, then those at his coming that will be part of the firstfruits of Rev 20:6.

Doesn't John (5:26) say that God grants or gives Jesus to have life in himself?
To be gifted with life in oneself one would need to be granted immortality.

Adam was Not given or granted immortality (Life within himself) Adam was gifted with everlasting life. Adam was Not immortal, he only became a living soul (Gen 2:7) after Adam received the breath of life. Adam was made to live forever on earth.
Like the angels Adam was not immortal but dependent on eating breathing, etc and dependent on obeying his Creator. At death Adam became a dead soul- Ezekiel 18:4,20.

John (3:16) promises that those that do not perish (destroyed) will have Not immortality, but everlasting life. Life as Adam originally had before his sin. Whereas those that are Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew (25:40) will 'put on' immortality (1Cor 15:53,54) or life within self because they will be resurrected to rule in heaven. (Rev 14:1; Hebrews 12:22). That 'little flock' (Luke 12:32) along with Jesus will fulfill the promise to Abraham (Gen 12:3; 22:18) that all the families of the earth will be blessed, and all the nations of earth will be blessed. Blessed as Rev (22:2) says with healing or curing of the nations for the 'other sheep' (John 10:16; Matt 25:33). From the loss of the paradise garden of Eden to paradise restored by Jesus.

 

[shadze]

ok folks has been great to debate with you on this sublject
Mickeil the lord continiously be with you ,
And Uravip2 me been a pleasure to debate with you.

See you all again as real life catches me up
I dont seem to have rthe time for things.
God bless you all.

 

[mickiel]

ok folks has been great to debate with you on this sublject
Mickeil the lord continiously be with you ,
And Uravip2 me been a pleasure to debate with you.

See you all again as real life catches me up
I dont seem to have rthe time for things.
God bless you all.

And with you also. Good debate.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

Why are you so bent on viewing punishment as motivation to do right? Can you see God using any other forms of motivation, or is he limited to this punishing that you see so clear? Is it possible for God to motivate without using punishment?

Peace.

Because it is context with this thread.

Absolutely. And the preference is more likely for the positive persuasion IMO.

Positive: I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior because I believed He was the only posiibility of having a good life. Granted that this was based on the fact that life was not very good when I was in control of it but the motivation was that of something positive happening.

Negative: During my teen age years I considered suicide because of girl problems. I refrained from doing so because I was afraid of God since I would be breaking one of His commandments. However I was saved from future thoughts about this by a positive in the form of a dream from God showing me a future with a wife in it.

 

[mickiel]

Because it is context with this thread.

Absolutely. And the preference is more likely for the positive persuasion IMO.

Positive: I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior because I believed He was the only posiibility of having a good life. Granted that this was based on the fact that life was not very good when I was in control of it but the motivation was that of something positive happening.

Negative: During my teen age years I considered suicide because of girl problems. I refrained from doing so because I was afraid of God since I would be breaking one of His commandments. However I was saved from future thoughts about this by a positive in the form of a dream from God showing me a future with a wife in it.

Well thats what I am saying, he helped you without punishing you. Don't you think with all the power God has, that if he was fear monger, wanting to strike fear in his creations, he could scare us all in seconds like never before. He could lash out pure unadulterated dead kill fear, but God is not like that. In Romans 2:4, it is Kindness, forbearance and Patience with Goodness that God uses to lead those to repent that he is ready to grant them that. This is what God uses to change people, and its what he is going to use to change this world.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well thats what I am saying, he helped you without punishing you. Don't you think with all the power God has, that if he was fear monger, wanting to strike fear in his creations, he could scare us all in seconds like never before. He could lash out pure unadulterated dead kill fear, but God is not like that. In Romans 2:4, it is Kindness, forbearance and Patience with Goodness that God uses to lead those to repent that he is ready to grant them that. This is what God uses to change people, and its what he is going to use to change this world.

Peace.

Isn't God going to use the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6,7) to change this world ?

Didn't Jesus promise that the humble meek would inherit the earth at Matthew (5:5)? Will little by little people become meek and mild ? or, as Isaiah (11:4) writes that Jesus will have to intervene and smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips Jesus will slay the wicked?

Decades after Jesus was in heaven at Revelation (19:11,14,15) John writes that out of Jesus mouth (Rev 2:16) goes a sharp sword to smite the nations against him.

Jeremiah (25:31-33) writes God will give the wicked to the sword and the slain will be from one end of the earth to the other and they will not even be buried.
This will be happening at the time according to Psalm (92:7) when the wicked spring up as the grass (cover the earth as vegetation covers the earth) .....it is that they will be destroyed forever. Or as Psalm (145:20) states....all the wicked will God destroy.

Proverbs (2:21,22; 10:30) agrees that the upright remain on earth, but transgressors and the wicked will be cut off from earth.... This is also what Psalm (37:9,38) says that evildoers will be cut off and transgressors destroyed. Verses 11 and 29 say not only will the meek inherit the earth as Jesus promised but they will be the ones to inherit and dwell on earth forever.

Satan, according to 2nd Corinthians 4:4, is the god of this world of badness and this world reflects not meekness nor mildness but the attitudes and actions of the god of this world- Satan. ( 2nd Timothy 3:1-5, 13)

God desires all to repent. (2Peter 3:9) but the willful unrepentant ungodly men as verse 7 says are reserved for: perdition or destruction.

If all are repentant there would be no need for divine intervention by God and Jesus and for Jesus to carry on righteous war (Rev 19:11) against the wicked.
Matthew chapter 25 shows Not all are repentant before Jesus takes action because the goat-like ones do not show themselves to be righteous but go into everlasting punishment. That punishment according to 2nd Thess (1:9) is the punishment of destruction. The benefit for the sheep-like meek ones (that have responded to God's kindness, forbearance, patience with goodness Matt 25:40) is the opposite of destruction. The sheep have the reward of everlasting life either to rule with Jesus in heaven or be part of the meek to inherit the earth.

 

[mickiel]

I am not into the destruction of humanity, and neither do I believe God to be.

Peace.

 

[LittleNipper]

I am not into the destruction of humanity, and neither do I believe God to be.

Peace.

GOD is into an end of sin.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And how does God be into an end to sin? Doesn't the sinner need to repent?
2nd Peter 3:9 B.

What if one refuses to repent such as the ones committing the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 that will not be forgiven in this world or the wonderful new world to come under Jesus thousand-year reign over earth where righteousness will dwell. -2nd Peter 3:13.