Isn't this a 'religious' forum? What religious book would a religious person use except the one they had confidence in? Jesus had confidence in using the Hebrew Scriptures to support his comments by often saying, "It is written" before he made his comments. Since Jesus did not think using the Hebrew Scriptures to support his arguments as stupid, by way of extension I think that also of the Christian Greek /Aramaic Scriptures is not stupid.
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Isn't this a 'religious' forum? What religious book would a religious person use except the one they had confidence in? Jesus had confidence in using the Hebrew Scriptures to support his comments by often saying, "It is written" before he made his comments. Since Jesus did not think using the Hebrew Scriptures to support his arguments as stupid, by way of extension I think that also of the Christian Greek /Aramaic Scriptures is not stupid.
we are talking about the word aion or aoinion which means ages of ages or age enduring. how on earth can you have more than forever , saying forever and ever. Its like saying forever and a day. also what you quote as forever in the old testment doesnt exactly mean forever. heres a link to look at.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
Translation of scripture has been going on for centurys and the reality of the matter is many versions of the bible have been created.
once all people used the latin vulgate now today we use other modern versions.The link below shows bibles that dont read forever and
know that the word aoinia has been mistrnaslated. Not only have i given scripture to support salvation to mankind . I also give bibles
that support this view of temporary punishment. One version as old as the 18 century.So in reality this view is not new and was
the initial view of the church. I would think any sensible person would embrace a concept of God and saviuor of all creation.
One who justly punishes for a time but not forever. To annihilate or torment forever is extreme and very unjust. I can agree
that those who disobey God will deserve tempory discipline but non existance and eternal torment is really abominable.
It is a waste and has no real benefit to the Creator.My God Wins all nothing less is the price for Christ sacrifice.
Nothing is impossible to God.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
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OGMIOS6666
Member
Firts of all there is nosuch thing as My God, there is Only One God.
It seems to me that you all have not been able to grasponto the gravity of the situation of the blazing fire. Yes satan will abide therein, and so will mankind and Jinn. You have all been sent onto this earth merely to worship God, that is all you were supposed to do, and of course carry out your daily affairs, you were told in previous scriptures, ie the Torah, Ingell,Quran, what to do and what not to do, yet the obstinate creatures that you all are, you have all rebuked the true messge of God, and have quite conveniently set your own parameters,so that you may continue in your transgression.
No doubt by now many of you have a repulsion to what I say, but it is normal, the truth truly hurts, and I am a patient person, who is willing to witness all ofyou slowly following the correct path. HELL is there be warned!
It seems to me that you all have not been able to grasponto the gravity of the situation of the blazing fire. Yes satan will abide therein, and so will mankind and Jinn. You have all been sent onto this earth merely to worship God, that is all you were supposed to do, and of course carry out your daily affairs, you were told in previous scriptures, ie the Torah, Ingell,Quran, what to do and what not to do, yet the obstinate creatures that you all are, you have all rebuked the true messge of God, and have quite conveniently set your own parameters,so that you may continue in your transgression.
No doubt by now many of you have a repulsion to what I say, but it is normal, the truth truly hurts, and I am a patient person, who is willing to witness all ofyou slowly following the correct path. HELL is there be warned!
richardlowellt
Well-Known Member
OOOOOhh, now your just being plain scary!!!
If there is no such thing as "My God" then why does Jesus call God as his God when Jesus says "my God" at Revelation (3:12) and John (20:17)?
Yes hell is there. Jesus was in hell (Acts 2:27,31) but Jesus believed hell was a sleeping place. Even the word cemetery means sleeping place.
Jesus believed the dead sleep- John (11:11). Hell is the common grave of mankind and those in hell (gravedom) according to Revelation (20:13) are delivered up from hell.
Satan will be destroyed (Hebrews 2:14b) Satan is not blessed with everlasting life. Satan is a sinner and sinners die. Since Satan was a perfect spirit creation he is not worthy of any resurrection after he dies by being destroyed by Jesus. (Genesis 3:15).
But isn't the Hebrew OT word 'ohlam 'adh ?
The Greek meaning ages of the ages?
God will reign into the ages of ages. Now and future.
Mark (3:29) guilty of agelong, perpetual, eternal sin. Never to be canceled out.
Also, isn't there a difference between everlasting life and immortal life?
God granted Jesus to have life within himself or immortality as John (5:26) says, but Adam was created to have eternal life or everlasting life because his life was conditional on obedience and conditional on eating and breathing, etc?
We are not debating on Christ immortality we are debating on what is eternal and what is. The link I left earlier shows you the use of ohlam and it was used for only a temporary time.
If olam/aionios simply means “forever” (as it is rendered in the KJV), Moses clearly said that the Egyptians who drowned in the Red Sea would never (Heb. "ad olam") be seen again:
And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever (Ex. 14:13.).
If olam/aionios means everlasting, fleshly circumcision is still binding today:
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (Gen. 17: 13-14.)
And Hebrew slaves, born thousands of years ago, must still serve their earthly masters today:
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. (Ex. 21:5-6.)
If "ad olam" must necessarily mean "for ever," and there is any life beyond the grave for any of these slaves, they must still serve their former master
Note: The above obsrvations are equally true of the Latin "aetas" (age) and it's cognatess ("aeternus," "aeternum," etc.)
Olam is consistently translated aion/aioios in the LXX, and aionios is used of a finite period of time in Romans sixteen verse twenty five:
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began (Greek: aionios chronos.)
Immediately after this (next verse, same sentence), aionios is used of God (who is eternal):
but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God[SIZE=+1] (Greek: aionios Theos.)
It should be obvious from it's usage in the above examples that olam/aionios is broad in meaning, and that it’s basic meaning is that of a prolonged, indefinite, undisclosed, unknown, or unknowable period of time. It would seem we could all agree that only such a definition is broad enough to include all of it's occurrences--Israel was not told how long the covenant of circumcision would last, The loyal Hebrew slave did not know how long he would live, and eternity is presently beyond our comprehension .
Tom Talbott and Dean Farrar both suggest another meaning of olam/aionios--that it may sometimes have more to do with quality than duration (quality as in "of God," or "Divine"), and I believe that this is also true.
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shadze-
Yes, context does come into consideration. Also, one Jewish professor said when the 'ever' is added to forever (forever and ever), not just forever alone, the 'ever' underscores the permanence.
True, the loyal Hebrew slave did not know how long he would live as time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all (Ecc9:11), but he did know he would only be a slave for No more than seven years, or the death of the high priest, whichever came first.
For each day that we can think of we can think of one day more, or one more day, so why would eternity be presently beyond comprehension? Ecc 3:11 A.
Yes, context does come into consideration. Also, one Jewish professor said when the 'ever' is added to forever (forever and ever), not just forever alone, the 'ever' underscores the permanence.
True, the loyal Hebrew slave did not know how long he would live as time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all (Ecc9:11), but he did know he would only be a slave for No more than seven years, or the death of the high priest, whichever came first.
For each day that we can think of we can think of one day more, or one more day, so why would eternity be presently beyond comprehension? Ecc 3:11 A.
The sad part is when we change the context from forever to temporary we then have a different perspective on what doctrine says. If people are then only punished for a temporary time then after this they gain salvation. It is only grace that causes the rebirth of mankind the elitist doctrine was sufficent at the times when the world was run by elitism. the church who created such doctrines new no better. They created a doctrine that fit thier elitist world view. By tidying it up, to the us - them logic this atrocity was born. Thier is no real sense for both a omniscient God to create mankind so only a few could be saved. Someone with such ability would win all not a few. :yes:
When I read posts such as this I'm never really sure whether it's just a wind-up, someone just having a bit of fun. I find it difficult to believe that someone is really taking himself that seriously and presuming to speak for God (whether or not there is such an entity). It seems hugely arrogant but comical the way the writer assumes special knowledge, setting himself apart from the ordinary to preach and proselytise to the masses. A religious stalker, I think!
OGMIOS6666
Member
The only reason all of you feel like this is that you have all not been introduced to the truth, Like I tell you all if you search hard enough you will discover the truth, there is no comic in my words, it is you who are in a flood of confusion by not truly understanding the concept of spirituality and the next stage of our lives after our souls exits our throats.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Your just another human being that has been deceived, and does not know it. Your the brother of the prodical son who likes to tell his father not to welcome home sinners.
Peace.
OGMIOS6666
Member
Trust me old chap I know exactly what I utter from my words, and I know exactly what I profess is the manifest truth, how can you even think in this manner when I hold a secret which it seems all of you are still completely blinded by it, it maybe that a screen has been put over your hearts and that you are blinded, so that you cannot yet be allowed to lift the veils from your eyes.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
OGMIOS6666
Member
My freind you truly need to be saved, if there is no truth, then why don't you gaze up above you and see the perfect artistry of the Creator, do you see any flaws in the creation, do you not see how the seven levels of heaven are held above each other without any pillars??
OmarKhayyam
Well-Known Member
Remarkable.
Seven pages of the most illogical and illiterate gibberish I have ever wasted time on.:yes:
You guys can't write any better than you reason. Which is to say not at all. The ignorance displayed is just astounding. And sad.
Flash: 5th grade English. 'There' and 'their' mean different things. Patients are people, not emotions. Grasp onto (IF that was what was meant. It is not all clear.) is redundant. To grasp means to take hold of.
Nothing posted by you devout and faithful believers would pass a 5th grade exam. That alone reduces all you say to worthless scribblings. But hey, enjoy your delusions. Have at it. No one really cares. As long as you follow the 11th commandment - go for it.
Seven pages of the most illogical and illiterate gibberish I have ever wasted time on.:yes:
You guys can't write any better than you reason. Which is to say not at all. The ignorance displayed is just astounding. And sad.
Flash: 5th grade English. 'There' and 'their' mean different things. Patients are people, not emotions. Grasp onto (IF that was what was meant. It is not all clear.) is redundant. To grasp means to take hold of.
Nothing posted by you devout and faithful believers would pass a 5th grade exam. That alone reduces all you say to worthless scribblings. But hey, enjoy your delusions. Have at it. No one really cares. As long as you follow the 11th commandment - go for it.
Remarkable.
Seven pages of the most illogical and illiterate gibberish I have ever wasted time on.:yes:
You guys can't write any better than you reason. Which is to say not at all. The ignorance displayed is just astounding. And sad.
Flash: 5th grade English. 'There' and 'their' mean different things. Patients are people, not emotions. Grasp onto (IF that was what was meant. It is not all clear.) is redundant. To grasp means to take hold of.
Nothing posted by you devout and faithful believers would pass a 5th grade exam. That alone reduces all you say to worthless scribblings. But hey, enjoy your delusions. Have at it. No one really cares. As long as you follow the 11th commandment - go for it.
ahahahahaha the vocabulary police. Insult ,abuse after insult. Now if you cannot contribute to this debate I suggest you dont post. After all , you just made a statement with no theological proof. ahahahah your a joke. nice to be entertained by Coco the clown.