The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[zenzero]

Friend Mickiel,
Hell is description not only in the Bible but also finds description in the Sanatna Dharma besides others.
Yes, we as humans have eveolved beyond that stage where these stories hold no water.
Stories too should evolve and so we try and find new meanings out of the old ones.
In reality there are no heaven or hell, no god or satan. In fact they are dualities which again is what is perceived differently be each individual's mind as epr his stage in the karmic cycle.
[Agree many will find it difficult to understand this but know no other way of explaining things in its proper perspective.]
When this mind is controlling us [which most do not realise] we live in hell and when we control the Mind [enlightened people] live in heaven but both are living on this very earth at the same time.
Love & rgds

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Well that certainly is good news to me. I thank God for churchs and Christians who do as such. In John 12:32 again Jesus himself speaking what I consider an unstoppable prophecy;"If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me." Now this is Jesus expressed desire, to get all of the sheep who are lost, not just those who believe and submit to him. Certain christians are teaching that sinful humanity must " Accept Christ", or they will perish. But God is not willing, NOR HAS HE WILLED, for ANY to perish, but ALL come to repentance.

Listen, the complete Salvation of ALL of humanity is the VERY REASON God sent Jesus to this planet! This is not my opinion, or me picking or creating imaginary scriptures. Notice 1John 4:14;" And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has SENT the Son " TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!" Not just the righteous, but sinners are also included in this mission. Certain christians just selfishly don't believe this. And most of them have been taught this through their church traditions.

Peace.

I can't help but think of this scripture:

For behold... this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

 

[Green Kepi]

Idea...("I will post these scripts"...) all the verses are nice; however, if you will notice and study history...most all these references refer to the place called "Sheol". God's people in both Old and New Testament Times had no concept of the place called "Hell" that began in the Middle Ages (King James' Era).

 

[mickiel]

Idea...("I will post these scripts"...) all the verses are nice; however, if you will notice and study history...most all these references refer to the place called "Sheol". God's people in both Old and New Testament Times had no concept of the place called "Hell" that began in the Middle Ages (King James' Era).

There are too many corrupt concepts in the world of religion to even list, yet we live by them each day. We eat them, consume them and they become a part of us. Form hell to the Trinity, from evil creating itself to humans being responsible for their Salvation, speaking in tounges and titheing, its just and endless list. We are just off base and unrooted in the truth.

Peace.

 

[idea]

from Bible Dictionary, yes I am aware of "Sheol" etc....
Hell. An English translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. "Gehenna," or "Gehenna of fire," is the Greek equivalent of the "valley of Hinnom," a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28:3; 33:6; Jer. 7:31; 19:2–6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23:10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5:22, 29–30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). Expressions about "hell-fire" are probably due to the impression produced on men's minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.
In latter-day revelation hell is spoken of in at least two senses. One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life. It is between death and the resurrection, and persons who receive the telestial glory will abide there until the last resurrection (D&C 76:84–85, 106), at which time they will go to the telestial glory. In this sense the Book of Mormon speaks of spiritual death as hell (2 Ne. 9:10–12). Hell, as thus defined, will have an end, when all the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after their resurrection. Statements about an everlasting hell (Hel. 6:28; Moro. 8:13) must be interpreted in their proper context in the light of D&C 19:4–12, which defines eternal and endless punishment.
On the other hand, the devil and his angels, including the sons of perdition, are assigned to a place spoken of as a lake of fire—a figure of eternal anguish. This condition is sometimes called hell in the scriptures (2 Pet. 2:4; D&C 29:38; 88:113). This kind of hell, which is after the resurrection and judgment, is exclusively for the devil and his angels, and is not the same as that consisting only of the period between death and resurrection. The one group are redeemed from hell and inherit some degree of glory. The other receive no glory. They continue in spiritual darkness. For them the conditions of hell remain.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I love the concept of hell fire and brimstone. The thought of the arrogant and flippant attitudes having an epiphany as their day of reckoning becomes a reality is the ultimate of horrors.

Free will commands the ultimate price and the powerful become helpless. It is the ultimate hind site situation where the intellect and pride of men comes before the fall into the eternal lake of fire and damnation.

Eternal lamentation is a fascinating concept at best and an eminent reality of the possibilities of worst case scenarios of your wildest dreams and nightmares of the worst kind manifistate for ever and ever.

Unbearable pain and suffering beyond your wildest comprehension that seems unbearable will be the mainstay of normality and time as you knew it was a grain of sand upon a never ending beach of time.

Will the soul really experience physical pain for all eternity when the flesh can only withstand so much. Is this situation a mental state and will free will allow independent thought and communication and possible redemption? After how long? Is it possible the next tormentation will not be physical pain but betrayal of all hopes and dreams of a better eternal future?

 

[mickiel]

I love the concept of hell fire and brimstone. The thought of the arrogant and flippant attitudes having an epiphany as their day of reckoning becomes a reality is the ultimate of horrors.

?

As I have stated before, the uncircumcised mind of man has been led to Love concepts that they have attribited to God, that are really not of God. Its horrible to think that a mind would fall in love with the concept of eternal torture, I call such thinking " Spiritual Flatlining."

Or stuck on ignorance.

Peace.

 

[tariqkhwaja]

God created us in His image, right? So we are (or at least should try to be) reflections of God.

So with all the emphasis on forgiveness and the endless qualities it has as promoted by Christianity, how contradictory it is that Christianity tells us that the God who claims to love us more than we can ever love our mothers, that God who tells humans to forgive their greatest enemies, that God, Himself, will not forgive us, not even after sufficient amount of punishment?

Can anyone believe this?

 

[crystalonyx]

I love the concept of hell fire and brimstone. ?

Then your god is a barbaric monster.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Then your god is a barbaric monster.

Some day you may have the pleasure of meeting him.

 

[idea]

God created us in His image, right? So we are (or at least should try to be) reflections of God.

So with all the emphasis on forgiveness and the endless qualities it has as promoted by Christianity, how contradictory it is that Christianity tells us that the God who claims to love us more than we can ever love our mothers, that God who tells humans to forgive their greatest enemies, that God, Himself, will not forgive us, not even after sufficient amount of punishment?

Can anyone believe this?

It is possible to love and forgive someone and not save them... You can love and forgive your kids all you want, but you cannot really control their behavior. If God took away our free agency and forced us into anything, He would no longer be God.

Well that certainly is good news to me. I thank God for churchs and Christians who do as such. In John 12:32 again Jesus himself speaking what I consider an unstoppable prophecy;"If I be lifted up I will draw all men to me." Now this is Jesus expressed desire, to get all of the sheep who are lost, not just those who believe and submit to him. Certain christians are teaching that sinful humanity must " Accept Christ", or they will perish. But God is not willing, NOR HAS HE WILLED, for ANY to perish, but ALL come to repentance.

Listen, the complette Salvation of ALL of humanity is the VERY REASON God sent Jesus to this planet! This is not my opinion, or me picking or creating imaginary scriptures. Notice 1John 4:14;" And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has SENT the Son " TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!" Not just the righteous, but sinners are also included in this mission. Certain christians just selfishly don't believe this. And most of them have been taught this through their church traditions.

Peace.

What are we being "saved from" if hell does not exist?

 

[crystalonyx]

Some day you may have the pleasure of meeting him.

Your god does not exist, and when I die, I will not exist either.

 

[Kcnorwood]

It

What are we being "saved from" if hell does not exist?

I've asked that question many imes before & no one really has an anwser.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Your god does not exist, and when I die, I will not exist either.

The difference between us is, if I am wrong, I will never realise I was wrong. If just for a second you consider what it will be like if you are wrong, it will really suck being you.

I am man enough to acknowledge the possibility that there is a chance I may be wrong. What is cool about this is, my being wrong is painless.

You cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no possibility of you being wrong. If you do, let me ask you this.

Is there anything else in life that you are absolutely sure of? It must be nice to know everything is rock solid and absolute in your life. Do you have any stock tips you might want to share? It must be nice to know everything with no doubts.

 

[jenni_boo22]

i think that a lot of what we view hell as was not brought on by the word of god as much as it was by the artists of the medevil times who would depict hell as burning and dying and everything horrible. i dont know, does the bible really say anything about hell being torture? or just a place full of souls that have turned from god?

 

[jenni_boo22]

sorry (i always hit post then think of one more thing!)

for example, the trinity is a concept that lots of christians believe in (the father, the son, and the holy ghost) but the word trinity isnt even in the bible! its a concept made by man, not god. hell might be like that too in some ways.

 

[mickiel]

sorry (i always hit post then think of one more thing!)

for example, the trinity is a concept that lots of christians believe in (the father, the son, and the holy ghost) but the word trinity isnt even in the bible! its a concept made by man, not god. hell might be like that too in some ways.

Well hell is exactly like that, a religious concept made by men. Concepts that have grown and become so strong, that they are too deeply ingrained to be removed by anyone but God. They are now strong traditions of many churchs, hell and the trinity. People treat their traditions with more reverence than they do God himself. This is why Jesus said;" In Vain do they worship me, following their traditions." Hes talking about believers here, people who wholeheartly worship and follow him, but Jesus considers their worship as useless, because they hold to their traditions.

Peace.

 

[zenzero]

friend mickiel,

Well hell is exactly like that, a religious concept made by men. Concepts that have grown and become so strong, that they are too deeply ingrained to be removed by anyone but God. They are now strong traditions of many churchs, hell and the trinity. People treat their traditions with more reverence than they do God himself. This is why Jesus said;" In Vain do they worship me, following their traditions." Hes talking about believers here, people who wholeheartly worship and follow him, but Jesus considers their worship as useless, because they hold to their traditions.

Agree with you; Jesus like all other enlightened men wanted everyone to understand that "You too are a part of god [if one would accpet that concept - or a part of the whole] and its not a question of blind faith/belief it is there, feel it, know it, realise it. Similarly heaven/hell are concepts for an understanding in life as throbbing places HERE-NOW not after death etc. Who has seen death anyway?
love&rgds

 

[Father Heathen]

The difference between us is, if I am wrong, I will never realise I was wrong. If just for a second you consider what it will be like if you are wrong, it will really suck being you.

I am man enough to acknowledge the possibility that there is a chance I may be wrong. What is cool about this is, my being wrong is painless.

You cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no possibility of you being wrong. If you do, let me ask you this.

Is there anything else in life that you are absolutely sure of? It must be nice to know everything is rock solid and absolute in your life. Do you have any stock tips you might want to share? It must be nice to know everything with no doubts.

Rick, no. We've been over this before - Pascal's wacky wager was refuted. What if The Muslims are right? Or the Hindus? Or the ancient Norse, Greeks or Egyptians? Even if a god exists, that wouldn't necessarily make all of the things that humans have attributed to him/her/it true (like the concept of hell, for example). If you see religion as an insurance policy, you'll have to follow every religion and worship every single god simultaneously. What if I claimed to be God incarnate and claimed that you would burn in hell for not worshiping me? Even though you couldn't disprove my claims, would that mean you should believe in them and worship me just to be on the safe side? But seriously, what benevolent and understanding god would hold a persons beliefs against them anyway?

 

[logician]

The difference between us is, if I am wrong, I will never realise I was wrong. If just for a second you consider what it will be like if you are wrong, it will really suck being you.

I am man enough to acknowledge the possibility that there is a chance I may be wrong. What is cool about this is, my being wrong is painless.

You cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no possibility of you being wrong. If you do, let me ask you this.

Is there anything else in life that you are absolutely sure of? It must be nice to know everything is rock solid and absolute in your life. Do you have any stock tips you might want to share? It must be nice to know everything with no doubts.

WHat is wrong wth being confident in one's beliefs, I have no doubt death is the end of existence for me, and am not into Pascal's wager's kind of nonsense.