Heneni said:
You say that you have the ability to believe in god and did for many years, but then you turned atheist? Why? Was it easier to make god dissapear? I know that you think that you are lucky that god does not exist. But i consider myself lucky that he does. I guess you have to lump in your support somewhere.
It wasn't easier to "make god disappear" - in fact, becoming an agnostic and then an atheist has been by far the most difficult set of decisions in my life. My family and a good portion of my friends are strongly religious. Under that kind of pressure, it's amazing to me that I was able to do it. To me that demostrates the compelling logic of atheism.
The reason I turned atheist was a combination of factors. One factor relevant to this thread is that I could not reconcile the vastly different concepts of god that the bible describes. On one hand you have a loving god who protects the weak, feeds the hungry, and heals the sick. On the other hand, you have the wrathful god who burned Sodom and Gomorrah, ordered the genocide of Canaan, and will torture his flawed creations forever in fire.
Heneni said:
And this is my ACTUAL response..if god couldnt please you, i doubt i can. I dont even think you are sure about being an atheist. To be offended by god is no news to us...many people are...but to love him transcends all offense.
I am very sure about being an atheist. And I am not offended by god; how could I be offended by something/someone who I don't believe exists?
Heneni said:
Why could you not love him when you did believe he existed?
I did love him. But that love faded, obviously, as I stopped believing he existed.
AK4 said:
These two verses ARE WAY OVER YOUR HEAD for understanding so you will have no idea what it means
The argument "You can't possibly understand what would make me right, so I'm not going to say it", isn't valid. Explain how you think those verses support your argument, and I'll be happy to shoot it down.
AK4 said:
Like i said before, one of the many proofs that there is a God is the fufilled prophecies...Even the fall of the Twin Towers is in there. I could direct you to a paper where it proves that these two towers are the only towers that the Word of God could be talking about!
Okay, point me to it. Just because it's a paper doesn't mean it can't be disproven. And if you want me to explain how any of the other prophecies in the bible are either so vague that they could apply to anything, written after the events they predict, or just plain wrong, I'll be happy to do so.
AK4 said:
Right and you would also be able see the biasedness in many of the interpretations of most theologians who wanted to protect a doctrine that they believe in. It doesnt take a specialist to notice some one errors. Come on now.
True. However, I don't think there can be much argument that the translations of a
diverse group of translation experts are less biased than the literalist translations of an unqualified person pushing his own ideas on a message board. The whole point of having a large group of translators is to minimize the bias that's allowed in.
AK4 said:
I will agree in some of that and you are guilty of it too going by some of the stuff you posted (See your replies in this post). You and most people dont investigate further and just accept that the bible translation they are reading is correct because it was done by specialists "who wouldnt have any biased opinion" when translating. As for you, you just accept any specialists in whatever to be the authority. Its naive to do such.
It isn't naive, it's reality. I realize that translators have some biases. However, those biases cause LESS inaccuracies than an amateurish word-by-word literalist translation out of a dictionary. The only way to get more accuracy than a group of translators is to learn the language well enough to understand the nuances of the original text. That would take years, and frankly, I don't have the time. You haven't done this either, so your point is hypocritical and moot.
AK4 said:
Imagist said:
Obviously, god is not energy. I believe in energy; I do not believe in god.
Well since you put it that way.....oh brother!
Do you worship the sun's rays? Do you pray to motion? Do you believe that heat will take you to heaven? The proof that the concepts of god and energy are not the same is self-evident. I shouldn't need to explain this.
AK4 said:
Leaps for atheists to believe in no Creator: 1) Energy just came out of nowhere or without start 2) This energy has an order to it without any randomness that is somehow with out a Creator. 3) This order somehow has been maintained for billions of years and the evolution of things just happen to turn out right.
1) I don't pretend to know where energy or matter came from, and neither do most scientists. We have theories which are based tentatively in physics, but none of these are sure.
Just because we don't know doesn't mean that we should stop investigating and assume god did it.
2) Randomness is a fundamental concept of science. To say that I believe that energy has no randomness in it fundamentally misunderstands my beliefs.
Order is maintained by physical laws which can be demonstrated mathematically. Just because we don't know what causes all of them to work doesn't mean that we should stop investigating and assume that god did it.
3) Evolution as a concept depends on disorder more than it depends on order.
Please, keep going. I'll be happy to further correct your misconceptions about my beliefs.
AK4 said:
I would rather believe in a false god who says they will give me life again than believe that this is the only life we have and thats all we have to look forward to
There's the rub. That's your choice and your loss. Personally, I would rather have happiness in this life than hope for happiness in the next and never get it.
But even given your preference, can you tolerate that kind of duplicity in yourself? Doesn't the truth matter to you?
Heneni said:
monkey... EVOLVE... tripe...
What you are saying only makes sense if you assume that your belief in the (Christian?) god is correct.
If you assume that your belief is not correct, your statements seem like unjustified smugness.
If anything, belief in god crushes the wonder of discovery and exploration. If you believe in god, you've already discovered the easy answer to everything, and there's no reason to continue exploring. If you don't know the reason for something, all you have to do is just assume it's god and move on.
Heneni said:
Thanks for the compliment, but i seriously doubt that most people are following MY path. But i understand the need for you to feel different...to be unique...to be acknowledged...to be somebody special, and following the 95% would make you 'just another' person. No distinction. No edge.
Thanks for the compliment, but I can statistically prove that most people are not following my path. But I understand the need for you to feel different, to be unique, to be acknowledged, and to be somebody special. Following the 95% makes you 'just another' person with no distinction and no edge.
Now, if we're done bandying rhetoric, can you present any evidence for your beliefs or are you just going to act smug?
mickiel said:
The concept of eternal hell suffering, is a belief that God himself believes in issueing out pain on a continual basics, with it never ending. There are said to be Seven wonders of the World, I think it should be changed to Eight. Its a Wonder that there are people who believe this insanity about God. Its simply dumfounding that so many believe that God would do such a thing. Simply a wonder within itself to believe a Holy being like God, would do such an unholy thing.
I agree, it's a wonder that people believe in a god that causes eternal suffering. It's also a wonder that you believe most of the things in the same book that tells us about this god who causes eternal suffering. Do you really not see the inconsistency in your beliefs?
wl: Darn, I'll swear I heard an owl it sounded like "hoot"
