The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[starlite]

Jeremiah 32:35 states:

35 Furthermore, they built the high places of Ba′al that are in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Mo′lech, a thing that I (God) did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’

Does it make sense that God would not approve of child sacrifice in fire, but turn around and punish someone in an eternal fire for wrong deeds? Hell is not a place of fiery torment but the grave of common man. His Word plainly states that the payment for unrepentant sin is death.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[mickiel]

Jesus himself stated in Matthews 24:21 that the comming tribulation will be a greater period of troubles for humanity than has ever occured, " And that nothing will ever occur again that would be like it." Now if eternal hell suffering were true, Jesus certainly wouldnot have said that, because eternal misery would be far greater than a period of tribulation.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

starlite,

You are making a case for the premise of my response here. Even though mickiel will have none of it. The place of chastisement, whatever one wishes to call it, was designed by the Dark Lord in his acceptance of the way he has responded to the creation and the treatment of mankind. It is inconsistent to say it is of God's doing!

mickiel,

You wont find this stuff "clearly" explained in the scriptures... for it was his (Dark Lords) choosing that the truth be denied from mankind.

 

[mickiel]

starlite,

mickiel,

You wont find this stuff "clearly" explained in the scriptures... for it was his (Dark Lords) choosing that the truth be denied from mankind.

I disagree, it was God himself who has denied the truth from being revealed to humanity. Only God controls this, not satan. It was God who has blinded men from the truth. It was God who created satan. It was God who has held back the revelation of himself, and it will be God who changes all of this.

God is in control, not the devil.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

starlite,

mickiel,

You wont find this stuff "clearly" explained in the scriptures... for it was his (Dark Lords) choosing that the truth be denied from mankind.

I have been looking into the scriptures for years, and it grows more " Clearer to me" with each passing year. Somethingelse that grows clearer to me is the fact that the scriptures are not clear to humanity.

Peace.

 

[raybo]

mickiel,

A standard... who can measure... a measure so lofty those of us who have not known it fail to realize... by the shear lack in our imagination. What is this offering. Is all that "i am" as i am? A time for this and a time for that. A time for some to rise, a time for all things to be played out.

mickiel,

Would you deny any of this if you were creator? What should be left out? You are as deliberate in your denial as i am in my acceptance of it all. Would you deny one or the other?

Can we be brought together in any of this?

ray

 

[starlite]

I have been looking into the scriptures for years, and it grows more " Clearer to me" with each passing year. Somethingelse that grows clearer to me is the fact that the scriptures are not clear to humanity.

Peace.

You have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.—Matt. 11:25.

Perhaps this is the reason....
During Jesus’ earthly ministry, God revealed an understanding of His purpose, not to wise and intellectual ones, but to unlettered and ordinary men who were humble enough to be taught by God’s servant. They seemed like babes in comparison with those educated in the schools.

 

[Enoch07]

Force, force? Its not force, its called opening the human heart to the truth, transforming the human mind, drawing the human to him, changing the human understanding,giving them a totally different mindset, none of which a human can do on their own, or using their own will. Salvation is not a result of human will or choice, its a result of Gods will and Jesus sacrifice, nothingless than those two things. Human will or choice has nothing to do with salvation, its a free gift from God.

And you can't take credit for it.

Peace.

We are not taking credit. But God/Jesus will not save you unless you ask to be saved. Thats a no brainer. So yes you have the choice. To love God or not. It is foolish to think otherwise.

 

[mickiel]

mickiel,

A standard... who can measure... a measure so lofty those of us who have not known it fail to realize... by the shear lack in our imagination. What is this offering. Is all that "i am" as i am? A time for this and a time for that. A time for some to rise, a time for all things to be played out.

mickiel,

Would you deny any of this if you were creator? What should be left out? You are as deliberate in your denial as i am in my acceptance of it all. Would you deny one or the other?

Can we be brought together in any of this?

ray

Gods Love will bring us together, not we ourselves. It is in our destiny to be brought together. It is.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

We are not taking credit. But God/Jesus will not save you unless you ask to be saved. Thats a no brainer. So yes you have the choice. To love God or not. It is foolish to think otherwise.

It is foolish to believe that human choice is the author of salvation. We were not created to " Ask God, or be doomed", such thinking is so far off balance , that it equates only to a misunderstanding of the predestined will of God.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Perhaps one of the more depressing features about being human is our addiction to pain as a remedy or cure to our problems. We think in order to change something, that something needs to suffer some. And this is why many believers in God teach that eternal hell suffering is real, because they think God is like themselves.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

We are not taking credit. But God/Jesus will not save you unless you ask to be saved. Thats a no brainer. So yes you have the choice. To love God or not. It is foolish to think otherwise.

I would generally agree with you but I have to leave room for God's sovreignty. He is capable of saving us whether we like it or not. However in doing so he removes relationship since it isn't possible to have a personal relationship with a robot. Wouldn't it be nice if God wre willing to have a relationship with us who are His children and make robots out of the unwilling. Unfortunately, He has a no child left behind policy.

 

[Evandr]

I would generally agree with you but I have to leave room for God's sovreignty. He is capable of saving us whether we like it or not. However in doing so he removes relationship since it isn't possible to have a personal relationship with a robot. Wouldn't it be nice if God wre willing to have a relationship with us who are His children and make robots out of the unwilling. Unfortunately, He has a no child left behind policy.

You say that God is capable of saving us weather we like it or not, now that begs a few questions. Why not simply create everybody with the tools and desire to be saved and then no one is lost? Your robot analogy is a good one but I would have said "mindless animals" doing everything on instinct having no God-like attributes, not knowing good and evil, sounds like the core idea that got Lucifer cast out for rebellion because it simply would not work.

I'd like to add something to your comment, with regard to intellect and order, truth and Justice are insuperable concepts, you cannot have one without the other less they both become abstract ideas with no real meaning or consequence causing eternal organization to dissolve. Our free agency to think for ourselves is immutable, thus truth has effect and justice has claim. Given that we are all sentient beings God cannot save us weather we are worthy or not, we decide how much of commandment we will keep (or not) ergo it is the individual alone who must walk the path to salvation and the presence of god.

To interfere with that process would make God an unjust individual causing that He would cease to be God and the whole plan of happiness would be thwarted - A condition Lucifer would love to effect.

 

[mickiel]

Interesting comments. I think humanity, all of us, would choose God, with all interfering matters removed from our wills. Free will, is the ability to choose, with no outside interference. Its too much interference for me to believe God uses free will to be the basics of Salvation. Because we choose, largely based on the interference in our minds. No, God must be after somethingelse in the human experience, something that is just beyond us to comprehend.

If God be God, then he must be all powerful, I accept that to be real. If there is a God. It then falls to " Him", not us, to bring this thing we know as human life to its ultimate climax. We take far too much on ourselves to bring it to the end results. Jesus took on all that needs to be taken on, and THAT, is why I believe we all make it in the end.

Peace.

 

[AK4]

Given that we are all sentient beings God cannot save us weather we are worthy or not, we decide how much of commandment we will keep (or not) ergo it is the individual alone who must walk the path to salvation and the presence of god.



To interfere with that process would make God an unjust individual causing that He would cease to be God and the whole plan of happiness would be thwarted - A condition Lucifer would love to effect.

God cannot save us? We decide how much commandment we will keep? We find our own salvation?

Have you read your bible?

Php 2:13 -For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (So much for free will)

Jer 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (So much for free moral agency too)

Do i even need to show scriptures on salvation who it is from? It sure aint on the individual.



No with what you are saying God doesnt exist that it is all on ones "free" will and no God is needed for mankind to find happiness. God will save all so that He can be All in All. It was His plan "to give humanity an experience of EVIL to humble him by it" (ECC 1:13 Concordant Version) and it is His goal to be all in all and that He will do it because that is His pleasure

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 .... I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

And the lucifer doctrine is a hoax too.

 

[mickiel]

God cannot save us? We decide how much commandment we will keep? We find our own salvation?

Have you read your bible?

Php 2:13 -For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (So much for free will)

Jer 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (So much for free moral agency too)

Do i even need to show scriptures on salvation who it is from? It sure aint on the individual.



No with what you are saying God doesnt exist that it is all on ones "free" will and no God is needed for mankind to find happiness. God will save all so that He can be All in All. It was His plan "to give humanity an experience of EVIL to humble him by it" (ECC 1:13 Concordant Version) and it is His goal to be all in all and that He will do it because that is His pleasure

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 .... I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

And the lucifer doctrine is a hoax too.

Very well written, I agree with the whole heart.

Peace.

 

[Enoch07]

I would generally agree with you but I have to leave room for God's sovreignty. He is capable of saving us whether we like it or not. However in doing so he removes relationship since it isn't possible to have a personal relationship with a robot. Wouldn't it be nice if God wre willing to have a relationship with us who are His children and make robots out of the unwilling. Unfortunately, He has a no child left behind policy.

God can save anyone if He wants to of course. But He will not save everyone. Atheist that stay true to their beliefs till the very end, will not be saved. Anyone who stands before God and still denies Him will burn. So to say all will be saved and allowed into the Kingdom is just denial.

 

[mickiel]

God can save anyone if He wants to of course. But He will not save everyone. .

This is the ultimate of contridiction. The first part of statement , God can save everyone if he wants to, is Gods expressed will and desire, the second part of said statement, but he willnot save everyone, is human desire.

Salvation is not based on human desire, humans will condemn other humans every chance they get. We do not control salvation. God does, thats why we really have nothing to fear. Humans create fear, God creates humans so that we may have life.

Peace.

 

[AK4]

God can save anyone if He wants to of course. But He will not save everyone. Atheist that stay true to their beliefs till the very end, will not be saved. Anyone who stands before God and still denies Him will burn. So to say all will be saved and allowed into the Kingdom is just denial.

Take your bible, buy a concordance and buy some other translations like a concordant and look up those scriptures you think that God said most of humanity will burn forever or annihilated. You will then see how the distortion of man adding and subtracting the Word of God brought about these damnable doctrines you believe in.

For that fact you can download e-sword for free. Study and show yourself approve before making such unscriptural comments.

ps-- not even concordances are free from mans decietfulness. for example the words everlasting and eternal and for ever and ever are not totally correct in some concordances

 

[AK4]

Very well written, I agree with the whole heart.

Peace.

Thank you