The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[spacejanitor]

Human nature itself is all the proof that " I Need", I hold no intrest in convincing anyonelse. I need no scholars to show me how deceived humanity is, I need no research to prove to me how utterly foolish humanity is.

And I hold no need to prove my views to anyonelse.

Peace.

I'll make it simple for you Mikiel. You see...I base my opinion upon my faith and the written word in the bible. There you see....no problem....now what is your fact for basis of your belief?

 

[Diederick]

True Mickiel...you do not need to prove your views, HOWEVER, when you post on a public forum ,it is assumed that you have some basis of FACT to prove your point. Simply saying you don't need to prove your views, shows that their is a shallowness to your belief, otherwise you would take the time to offer those who have an interest in your view with material in which to review and to either agree or disagree with your position.:yes:

I disagree, I think philosophy is a brilliant way to establish a proposition. And you really only need a rational mind to engage in philosophy - and of course some basic FACTS, like why things get hot when you put them in a microwave and why some people cannot spell words with over seven letters.

This opens up the area of debate for people that do not know everything there is to know about a certain subject, but can perceive the logical fallacy in an argument.

 

[mickiel]

True Mickiel...you do not need to prove your views, HOWEVER, when you post on a public forum ,it is assumed that you have some basis of FACT to prove your point. Simply saying you don't need to prove your views, shows that their is a shallowness to your belief, otherwise you would take the time to offer those who have an interest in your view with material in which to review and to either agree or disagree with your position.:yes:

Again, I am not posting to prove anything, I am simply stating my beliefs, it matters not to me who agrees, accepts, or disagrees. I have used no materials to come to my views on hell other than common sense, it would make no sense of God to punish humans alive forever, thats insanity, God is not insane. There is not a shallowness in my views, but there is a shallowness in my efforts to convince others, I make none. It does not matter to me what people believe, I don't see our future being based on our beliefs, if that were the case, we all would have different destinys.

The only material avialible to anyone interested in my views that I would reconmend are a Websters dictionary and a Bible. Thats all I have used.

And I need nothingelse. Not for this particular subject, but I do agree with research, its never a waste of time if the material being used is Good. If the subject were biblical Archaeology, oh then I could refer a whole lot of references to research, because its a lot avialible.

But you see some subjects are not so a matter of research and materials, its a matter of belief, and I do not agree with trying to convince others of a spiritual belief. Its just a personal thing.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I'll make it simple for you Mikiel. You see...I base my opinion upon my faith and the written word in the bible. There you see....no problem....now what is your fact for basis of your belief?

Well thats fair enough, I too use those same two in my belief, its just that my belief goes far deeper than that. Its a good thing to have Faith and the bible, but I have limited Faith and limited understanding of the bible, so I had to go much deeper than that. Its just " In Me" to believe in God, I cannot get around it. Its a real, vital part of me that has always been there. It was there before I had Faith or a bible, and will be there without faith or a bible. When something is in you like that, it cannot be ignored, cannot be limited.

I didnot " Put it There", I cannot remove it, its really my nature. We can " Feed our nature", try to nourish it, even try to deny it, but we simply are what we are. This is why I brought up homosexuality, to explain this better. When you are born a certain way, its meant for you to be that way. Now we can struggle to change this, and its possible to change things, people have done that. But the fact of human nature cannot really be denied, only try to understand ourselves. For example, I was born a sinner, I sin. Now why is up for debate, but while the debate on this can vary, I know that I sin. I know myself, this sin was in me when I was born.

Other things were in me just as well. I thirst, I hunger for food, I lust for Women, I long for certain things, I like certain things, and no amount of research can change this. Research can help in understanding, but the fact remains that I was born " Needing to go to sleep" at various times. I was born needing to eliminate waste from my body. And I keep doing these things all my life. Now then, I like the bibles way of explaining why I sin, I like science way of explaining why I must eliminate waste. I feel no need to prove to others why I have accepted the things I have that explain things to me.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Well thats fair enough, I too use those same two in my belief, its just that my belief goes far deeper than that. Its a good thing to have Faith and the bible, but I have limited Faith and limited understanding of the bible, so I had to go much deeper than that. Its just " In Me" to believe in God, I cannot get around it. Its a real, vital part of me that has always been there. It was there before I had Faith or a bible, and will be there without faith or a bible. When something is in you like that, it cannot be ignored, cannot be limited.

I didnot " Put it There", I cannot remove it, its really my nature. We can " Feed our nature", try to nourish it, even try to deny it, but we simply are what we are. This is why I brought up homosexuality, to explain this better. When you are born a certain way, its meant for you to be that way. Now we can struggle to change this, and its possible to change things, people have done that. But the fact of human nature cannot really be denied, only try to understand ourselves. For example, I was born a sinner, I sin. Now why is up for debate, but while the debate on this can vary, I know that I sin. I know myself, this sin was in me when I was born.

Other things were in me just as well. I thirst, I hunger for food, I lust for Women, I long for certain things, I like certain things, and no amount of research can change this. Research can help in understanding, but the fact remains that I was born " Needing to go to sleep" at various times. I was born needing to eliminate waste from my body. And I keep doing these things all my life. Now then, I like the bibles way of explaining why I sin, I like science way of explaining why I must eliminate waste. I feel no need to prove to others why I have accepted the things I have that explain things to me.

Peace.

I wanted to add to this that belief in God is in my being, deep inside where there is no point of return or seperation, no discussion of facts, no determining list of factors. Its just there., a vital part of me where there is no ego, no need for satisfaction from others, no need to prove whats there.

I don't need to prove to anyone that I have eyes, a nose, a heart, or a soul. I have them, as I have my belief in God.

Peace.

 

[Mr Cheese]

God sends people to New Jersey when they have been bad.

Hell does Exist

1 day in NEwark= 50,000 years in heaven.

See this is one of Satan's minions:

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is as morbid as religion has become. I have come to conclude that all religion is a farce, a plastic mold of what it once was centuries ago. Religion has become Gods statement of what would happen if he did not get involved with humanity, we will morph into all kinds of deceptions and delousions. He has not got involved, and we have morphed into delusion.

And we call the delusion religion.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

And what kind of judgement will your christian god give to the unsaved? What happens to those who are evil and do not believe? What happens to those good people who do not believe? What will your god do to those who believe, but just never had enough strength to overcome the great influence called sin? What kind of judgement will those who were raised in a culture that never knew your god existed receive? Is you god going to condemn all these people to some morbid everlasting pit of pain?

Peace.

People will get what they deserve.

God isn't condemning anyone. Poeple in sin are already condemned. God is saving those who will let Him. As for Hell there is no record of God sending people there but people end up there because they have refused salvation from it. These people are like the man who lived on Mt St Helens. He was warned to leave because the Volcano was set to blow but he refused to leave.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus didnot speak about hell as much as you claim, and the hell he spoke of was the grave, not some torture pit. Your understanding of Jesus is accusational, you simply want to accuse him, as did your forefathers. Your mind is devoid of Jesus significance, which is why you insult him. Your thinking is what has blinded humans for years, and years to come.

But your words are not the words of God. Which is why they are meaningless.

Peace.

Mt 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

Are you saying that the word translated as Hell here menas the grave and that the grave is one of fire?

 

[mickiel]

Mt 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

Are you saying that the word translated as Hell here menas the grave and that the grave is one of fire?

Yes, thats what I am saying. In those times they burnt people as a punishment, God is not going to duplicate this, thats cruel and unusual punishment. What makes you think God has to settle to burning humans to punish them? See what it is, you think that God thinks like you. You would do this kind of thing, so you in turn believe that God needs to do it. And whats worse, you think its righteous to burn people. You actually think that Jesus would condemn a human to a burning hell, just because they called someonelse a " Fool." Come on man, whats wrong with your view of Jesus?

So now you think the Son of God, the Master of Salvation, will condemn humans to a burning hell for calling others a Fool?

Good greif man. Do you really know Christ?

Peace.

 

[slave2six]

God isn't condemning anyone. Poeple in sin are already condemned. God is saving those who will let Him. As for Hell there is no record of God sending people there but people end up there because they have refused salvation from it.

Ever read Matthew 25? The really interesting thing about this story that Jesus told is that people are thrown into Hell based on merit (what they did and didn't do) and there is not a word about atonement, accepting some propitiation for sins, or anything of the sort. If the guy that you claim is God clearly states that people get into heaven based on how they act rather than what they believe, don't you think you ought to pay attention to that?

Besides, anyone who can say what you said without wailing in grief are people who really have no compassion for others or any real sense of what a literal Hell might mean.

 

[TechTed]

I'll make it simple for you Mikiel. You see...I base my opinion upon my faith and the written word in the bible. There you see....no problem....now what is your fact for basis of your belief?

This statement here is proof on why debating religion with some is a futile exercise.

Spacejanitor is making the false assumption that his faith = fact. But I give him partial credit for initially stating that it is his "opinion".

There are no FACTS to prove or disprove anything on either side of the debate. And once that "faith" card is played, any rational discussion is immediately over.

 

[Diederick]

This statement here is proof on why debating religion with some is a futile exercise.
... once that "faith" card is played, any rational discussion is immediately over.

Unless, of course, we go into the invalidity of "faith" in rational discussion and wait for the opponent to bring up what his faith is based on, which is always "I believe because of my personal experience", either because they "witnessed the presence of God" or "saw miraculous things that couldn't possibly be explained otherwise than by the power of God". At which the rationalist says to his opponent that this is all really nice, but we are not interested in your delusions, we are interested in facts.

It should be obvious to anyone that a claim based on faith has no place in any discussion, since it is too personal and cannot possibly be supported exactly because of that. The only evidencene - much like how the Bible 'proves' it is genuine - is the claim itself. And that is not possible. This is usually victory for the rationalist, but the opponnent tends to leave without acknowledging it and remaining ignorant of his defeat saying: "well, it is true for me, because of my belief". Whatever. :sarcastic

"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." great sig, Autodidact.http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/members/autodidact-12991.html

 

[Shahzad]

The gospel is not clear on hell, hell is a misnomer, it is refered to as the grave, not eternal torture. Jesus spoke on the grave, not torture and continual punishment. Christianity is the greatest exponent of hell, which is why they are the greatest deceived on the subject.

Peace.

Whilst it's true that "Sheol" is often mistranslated as "hell" when Jesus spoke of the "fire of Gehenna", a fire which consumes both body and soul there's little doubt what he meant. Rather than twisting his words as you accuse them of doing, Christians were simply following Jesus' teachings, taking the most clear meaning.

 

[mickiel]

Whilst it's true that "Sheol" is often mistranslated as "hell" when Jesus spoke of the "fire of Gehenna", a fire which consumes both body and soul there's little doubt what he meant. Rather than twisting his words as you accuse them of doing, Christians were simply following Jesus' teachings, taking the most clear meaning.

A body is physical, a soul is physical, both are consumed when thrown into fire. Jesus was talking about the practice of burning bodys when they die, something we still do unto this day.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The reason why most believers need to include hell into their belief, is that they want and desire for people to go there. Why believe in something that you do not desire to occur?So the world is in a sandwhich between believers who would see humanity roast, and unbelievers who think we popped up from nothing and think were going somewhere.

Peace.

 

[Shahzad]

A body is physical, a soul is physical, both are consumed when thrown into fire. Jesus was talking about the practice of burning bodys when they die, something we still do unto this day.Peace.

Since when is a soul physical? I think that's your own little invention there! The whole point of a soul is it being the immaterial, supraphysical part of man. To me, and to most interpreters of the Bible it's clear that the Fire of Gehenna was referred to as a place of punishment for sinners.

 

[mickiel]

Since when is a soul physical? I think that's your own little invention there! The whole point of a soul is it being the immaterial, supraphysical part of man. To me, and to most interpreters of the Bible it's clear that the Fire of Gehenna was referred to as a place of punishment for sinners.

In Gen. 2:7;God blew the breath of life into a body he made from the ground that the bible refers to as a soul. This soul was dead and lifeless, untiul Gods breath made it " A Living Soul." A soul is a human body that has the breath of Life in it. Now I understand how traditional knowledge has turned the meaning of soul, into being the meaning of " A Spirit", but in my view, a soul is a body. A soul that burns in hell means a body is burning in a flame in a dug out pit.

The fire of gehenna means the burnning of bodies in a grave.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Since when is a soul physical? I think that's your own little invention there! The whole point of a soul is it being the immaterial, supraphysical part of man. To me, and to most interpreters of the Bible it's clear that the Fire of Gehenna was referred to as a place of punishment for sinners.

Gehenna used to be a place of torment in the valley of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem. The valley came to be reguarded as a place of abomination because some of the Israelites sacrificed their children to Moloch there. In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to prevent pestilence. Thats what Gehenna was, but the translators of the new testament made Gehenna synonymous with this doctrine of everlasting hell and christians have spread this deception.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Gehenna used to be a place of torment in the valley of Hinnom, southwest of Jerusalem. The valley came to be reguarded as a place of abomination because some of the Israelites sacrificed their children to Moloch there. In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to prevent pestilence. Thats what Gehenna was, but the translators of the new testament made Gehenna synonymous with this doctrine of everlasting hell and christians have spread this deception.

Peace.

People are simply teaching and believing the wrong concept or interpitation of the bible, and its mostly christians who are doing this. Thats how the sick concept of eternal hell suffering came about. And its how other sick concepts have appeared.

Peace.