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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Matthew 12:32 does not mention hellfire belief as the unforgivable sin.
Remember the Christianity of the first century changed after the death of the apostles. Luke warns (Acts 20:29,30) that wolf-like ones in sheep clothing, so to speak, would enter in among the congregation. Since Jesus said 'many' would come 'in his name' but prove false- See Matthew chapter 7 - then it is expected that most of so-called Christianity is just that- "so-called".
Hell fire developed from the word Gehenna which was a burning garbage dump where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna is a fitting symbol for destruction, not forever torture.
So, the hellfire idea developed from the word Gehenna rather than the words hades or sheol which is mankind's common grave or sleeping place til the resurrection.
Acts 24:15.
Most people dont believe in hell because it seems like an overly severe punishment. It is hard to imagine a crime or sin that should result in a person going to hell. What they dont understand is that hell doesnt exists as a prison, it simply exists and our faith tells us that it exists. You can call it science, the rules of nature. The true question is, if we only have room in Heaven for a select few, who should gain entrance first, me or you?
Folks, please be patient and do some more reading and study of not only the Bible but a good Bible. Also you need to look at some other peoples ideas and if they are based on a good Bible translation, then you will see the sense in what God has created including you!
Free will, so called, is totally misunderstood. Most people are so arrogant that they cant see anything but their own short sighted ideas. I dont want to sound nasty but that is the way it is. We humans MUST wallow in our sin and corruption to see what GOOD really is in relations to EVIL that God created also.
Please take a look at my web page and then get back with me for more. God saved the loaves and fishes and you all are more important than them yes, even the most evil creatures that walk the earth.
Write to me for it as I am not allowed to do this yet
Bob Todd
San Jacinto, CA
e-mail [email protected]
Unscriptural words in our common English translations include HELL, EVERLASTING, ETERNAL, ETERNAL DAMNATION, ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, ETERNAL DEATH and the list goes on.
Free will, so called, is totally misunderstood. Most people are so arrogant that they cant see anything but their own short sighted ideas. I dont want to sound nasty but that is the way it is. We humans MUST wallow in our sin and corruption to see what GOOD really is in relations to EVIL that God created also.
Please take a look at my web page and then get back with me for more. God saved the loaves and fishes and you all are more important than them yes, even the most evil creatures that walk the earth.
Write to me for it as I am not allowed to do this yet
Bob Todd
San Jacinto, CA
e-mail [email protected]
Unscriptural words in our common English translations include HELL, EVERLASTING, ETERNAL, ETERNAL DAMNATION, ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, ETERNAL DEATH and the list goes on.
Sure hell exists. Wasn't Jesus in hell according to Acts 2:27,31?
Didn't Jesus also show that hell will come to an end according to Revelation 20:13,14 ? Once all those in hell are delivered up, then it is emptied-out hell that is destroyed in second death.
Did Jesus believe hell was hot or not? Since Jesus believed the dead are in a sleep-like state (John 11:11-14) then Jesus would have believed that while he was in hell he would be in a deep sleep.
Didn't the Psalmist also believe the dead sleep the sleep of death according to Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17 and no conscious thoughts 146:4?
Jesus never indicated that he disagreed with what King Solomon wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 that the dead know nothing.
Who gains entrance to heaven in by God's choosing. The rest will be part of the promise to Abraham and be part of the humble meek that will inherit the earth or earthly realm of God's kingdom under Christ.
(Gen 12:3; 22:17,17; Psalm 37:11, 29, 38 92:7; Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30)
Is the word "MANY" also an unscriptural word ?
Doesn't Matthew (20:28 B) plainly state that Jesus gave his life as a ransom for 'MANY'? What does the word ' many' mean if not 'many' ? "Many" does not mean 'all' does it ? Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6
mickiel
Well-Known Member
If you read Matt. 8:29, Jesus was in the process of " Casting out multiple demons from a human possesed by them." Notice what one of them actually said to him;"What do we have to do with you, Son of God?" Have you come here to " Torment us before the Time?" Significant here is the actual knowledge of these demons concerning their destiny, their known future as willed and shared to them by God the Father. They already know now what is to happen to them. Their predestined future involves some kind ofTorment. They reconized Jesus, knew who he was and just as plainly reconized, and revealed to us, their date with this torment. A torment " Prepared for Them", which Matthew 25:41 easily confirms. Eternal Fire was " Prepared FOR the devil and his Angels, not for humans."
This confuses Christianity, they believe the oppisite, that this torment was prepared for humans who do not believe. And they confuse this " Lake of Fire", to be the Hell they teach. A very serious and additive contridiction. Addictive because Christians need to see a way , a method of disposal of unbelievers, other than their complette forgiveness. They think God and Christ are incapable of such a thing as the total forgiveness of an unbeliever. So they " Need" a place to put these humans who really are in incredible need of a great Mercy from God. So they have turned this Lake of Fire, which has nothing to do with humans, into their coveted Hell. They think its Gods " Garbage Dump" for humans he couldnot save. Really the mere thought of God not being able to change an unrepentant unbeliever, is absolute nonsense within itself!
Torment us before the Time, interesting statement which reveals an awful lot. Imagine if a doctor told you that you have 30 months to live, what would you do from then on? How will that effect how you live, or your very consciousness? Well some would just live it up, others would conversely live it down in deep depression. The reaction of demons who know their doomed destiny, is part of the " Reason Christians have accepted their twisted views of Hell, and the destiny of unbelievers." Demons are very upset with their very existance, they think God is unfair and unjust to have made them this way, with this arcane destiny of torment, and they have lashed out at Gods greatest creation, humanity, to exact their evil revenge. So they distort Christianity into thinking that their destiny, is the destiny of unbelieving humans.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
This confuses Christianity, they believe the oppisite, that this torment was prepared for humans who do not believe. And they confuse this " Lake of Fire", to be the Hell they teach. A very serious and additive contridiction. Addictive because Christians need to see a way , a method of disposal of unbelievers, other than their complette forgiveness. They think God and Christ are incapable of such a thing as the total forgiveness of an unbeliever. So they " Need" a place to put these humans who really are in incredible need of a great Mercy from God. So they have turned this Lake of Fire, which has nothing to do with humans, into their coveted Hell. They think its Gods " Garbage Dump" for humans he couldnot save. Really the mere thought of God not being able to change an unrepentant unbeliever, is absolute nonsense within itself!
Torment us before the Time, interesting statement which reveals an awful lot. Imagine if a doctor told you that you have 30 months to live, what would you do from then on? How will that effect how you live, or your very consciousness? Well some would just live it up, others would conversely live it down in deep depression. The reaction of demons who know their doomed destiny, is part of the " Reason Christians have accepted their twisted views of Hell, and the destiny of unbelievers." Demons are very upset with their very existance, they think God is unfair and unjust to have made them this way, with this arcane destiny of torment, and they have lashed out at Gods greatest creation, humanity, to exact their evil revenge. So they distort Christianity into thinking that their destiny, is the destiny of unbelieving humans.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Now, examine 2Peter 2:4," For if God did not " Spare Angels" when they sinned, but cast them into " Hell" and committed them to pits of " Darkness", RESERVED for Judgement!. Now think about this. The demons are NOW in Hell, which is called " A Place of Darkness", and their Judgement is on " Reserve." As I previously mentioned Matt. 25:41, the Lake of Fire was created for these demons. Matt. 8:29 the demons " Themselves" have told us that their destiny is sealed, and it involves, perhaps centers on " Torment." Now listen, a " Great Lake of Fire", is in NO WAY POSSIBLE a " Dark place, like Hell is, or the Grave, or a pit of Darkness. Fire " Lights up Atmosphere", we all know and understand that. The atmosphere of the Lake of Fire willNOT be Darkness, it will be great Light! Now then, we must " Think here", really think about this.
If the demons are now in hell, or a " Dark Place", and not yet inside of the Lake of Fire, obviously a Light Place, then we must figure out what this dark hell really is. I think the demons are on earth now, with us, or at another place unknown to us outside of our dimension, but yet still able to influence us from there, I see only these two possibles.
But the Lake of Fire is NOT Hell, or cannot possibily be a Dark Place. The reall Hell, which God has demons in, IS a Dark Place.
And allow me to continue on that.
Peace.
If the demons are now in hell, or a " Dark Place", and not yet inside of the Lake of Fire, obviously a Light Place, then we must figure out what this dark hell really is. I think the demons are on earth now, with us, or at another place unknown to us outside of our dimension, but yet still able to influence us from there, I see only these two possibles.
But the Lake of Fire is NOT Hell, or cannot possibily be a Dark Place. The reall Hell, which God has demons in, IS a Dark Place.
And allow me to continue on that.
Peace.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Now 2Pet. 2:4 could possibly be a " Future event", demons being cast into pits of Darkness, maybe right before the millineum. I can see that being a possible. Now in John 8:44 Jesus states that the Devil was a " Murderer from " The" beginning." The Beginning, is obviously his conception into Life, the day he was created. Now listen, for someone to be a " Killer at his Birth", he had to be created to be that way, destined to live in that preconceived consciousness. A consciousness of Murder, conceived by his creator. And I understand this to be hard to read and conceive. Jesus, in this same scripture, also stated that Satan does not stand for truth, " BECAUSE", there is no truth in his Consciousness. From his beginning, or his Birth, he had Absolutely no Truth in him. He was conceived to be a destroyer of Truth! He was a murderer from his beginning, but who did he murder? Well, he didnot kill any angels, so who or more correctly WHAT did he murder?
He murdered Gods truth, was designed to actually distort the truth, and has done that to Christianity, and all other religions as well.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
He murdered Gods truth, was designed to actually distort the truth, and has done that to Christianity, and all other religions as well.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
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The lake of Fire is defined as meaning the second death. (Rev 20:14) There is no life in the first death, but unlike the first death, there is no resurrection back to life anywhere from the second death. Jesus ransom only covers the first death.
Hell (Acts 2:27,31) is the common grave of mankind and not Gehenna which was the garbage dump. Things were destroyed in Gehenna but not destroyed in hell (gravedom). Demons are not in the common grave of mankind or hell (job 14:13,14)
The torment (Not torture of fire) the torment of Matthew (18:30,34) is connected to 'prison' or being locked up in prison by a tormentor (jailer).
The term jailer or tormentor did not necessarily mean torture.
The hell of 2nd Peter 2:4 is Tartarus of Jude 6 with this being the prison-like condition 1st Peter 1:19 (spiritual darkness). Their judgment is already sealed because once perfection sins there is only the prospect of second death or destruction to await them. Don't sinners die? Since Satan (who had perfection) is a sinner he will pay the price for sin which is death. His death will be the second death of destruction. Jesus destroys Satan as Hebrews 2:14 B says. Jesus deals Satan the fatal death bruise to his head to fulfill Genesis 3:15.
The 'everlasting punishment' of Matthew 25:46 is being punished with 'everlasting destruction' or second death.- 2nd Thess 1:9.
1st John 2:7,13 also mentions beginning. Just because the word beginning is used shows beginning does not necessarily mean from birth. So, 1st John 3:8 is showing Satan is a sinner from the beginning or start of his going wrong or sinning, or from when Satan first started to sin. The beginning or start of Satan's opposition (his career) of opposing God. Please notice 1st John 3:11 because there beginning is used in connection to the start of discipleship, not meaning discipleship that started at conception or birth.
Who did Satan murder (John 8:44) Jesus was referring to Eden when Satan got the first humans to disobey God and fall victim to sin's price which is death.
Romans 5:12. In order to usurp God's position Satan resorted to lies and deceitfulness. -1 Tim 2:14.
According to Genesis all that God created was 'very good', so then Satan made himself into a Satan or resister and Devil or slanderer of God.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Notice this about Christ ultimate power in Matt. 9:6 " But in order that you may KNOW that the Son of Man has " Authority" on earth to " Forgive Sins." Here is the absolute outright Power of Authority that Jesus has which Christianity is fighting to take away from the destiny of unbelievers, to be forgiven. Its just that simple. Christians who argue for hells destiny, argue for the sins of sinners to remain accountable and not dismissed, and hell is their reward for not receiving Gods grace. Of course the Christians dismiss themselves from this destiny, because satan has deceived them into believing that Jesus has no right, because of free will in humans, to save evil people, but has come to only save the " Righteous."
This mentality orginates from satans will to destroy humanity and for us to receive his predestined fate. So he has cunningly used Christians to deliver HIS message of doom for humanity, teaching Jesus saving power is selective and limited, which is where the doctrine of limited atonement comes from. And because Christians are believers, much of so called " Doomed Humanity", has swallowed this great deception hook line and sinker. satan has interweaved hell belief deep into humanity, trying to mask Christ great saving authority.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
It has actually been demonically placed into the consciousness of humanity, that it is " Blasphemus to forgive sins." Matt. 9:3. In verse 4 Jesus called such a thing as this " Evil", its really evil to think unbelievers willnot be forgiven, and such evil is the direct, raged influence from satan, who must live with his destiny of unforgiveness. So he perverts the true gospel of Jesus authority to forgive, with implanted religious teachings of unforgiveness. In 9:2, Jesus spoke, " Take courage, my son, your sins are forgiven." It takes courage to believe in the forgiveness of sinners or sin itself, because sin carries a serious " Quilt complex along with it." And once certain Christians feel " Safe from their complex", they find it interestingly easy to condemn others who are not as righteous as they.
This too is direct influence from the doomed satan. Its selfish envy, invereted pride, which is opposed to Christ Power to save.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
WILL ONE BURN IN HELL FOREVER?
There is so much being taught from the Bible that is not the complete truth. When individuals go to Church they go expecting to receive the truth from their Minister, but are they really getting all the truth? Are individuals getting what God wants them to know and wants them to understand? Is it the responsibility of an individual to determine if what is being taught in Church is true? Is it ones responsibility to search the scriptures to check and see if what one is teaching is the truth and to not just nod their head in agreement?
Its true some go to church because they believe that is what is expected of them because they are a Christian. But there is more to it than just going to Church every time the door opens. It is the responsibility of an individual to make sure what is being taught by the Minister is correct. Most individuals go to Church because of tradition, family tradition. Most individuals go to a certain Church because their family belonged to it and as they were raised in that Church, they believe they are obligated to go to that Church. It has been so ingrained into their mind that there is no right way but their way. This is very dangerous for ones salvation.
It is understood throughout Christianity that Jesus Christ is the only way to obtain Salvation, or that is, Eternal Life. That Jesus gave His life for us for that purpose. But to be told that all one has too do is to believe in Jesus Christ and they will be saved is not all there is to making it into the Kingdom of God. Satan believes and well he knows that Jesus is the Son of God but he will not be in the Kingdom of God.
Jesus made the statement in Matt. Ch 4: verse 4;
4: But He answered and said, it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Jesus said that all scripture is given for inspiration. Without using all of it His Word cannot be understood.
In Matt. Ch 7: verses 22,23:
22: Jesus said: Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name cast out Devils? And in you name done many wonderful works.
23: Then I (Jesus) will profess unto them I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of iniquity.
The individuals being described here believed they were doing right in Gods eyes, but were they? It was not the fault of the people, but it was the fault of the ministers because of what the people had been taught. People were not getting the whole truth.
There is a teaching in the Churches in which they use to scare individuals in coming to Church and giving themselves to God. They preach that one will burn in Hell forever if they do not do this.
What I want to do is explain why this is not the truth about an ever burning Hell fire and what the Bible really has to say about it. Is God a God of good or is He a mean being with everlasting torture in His heart. Will He, when a good mother goes to Heaven and her son or daughter may not have made it to Gods Kingdom, letting him or her go to Hell, let her watch her son or daughter burn in hell for ever and ever? I believe this deserves an answer that is in your Bible and that the truth may be revealed to you.
John 3: 16; states ForGod so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life.
Please notice the word Perish in this scripture. In the Websters New Collage Dictionary the word perish means to come to nothing, to be destroyed.
The Bible is very clear that the wicked will not suffer in a burning hell fire forever. On the contrary, it says that they will perish. Those who sin will burn up and become ashes and will be trodden upon by the feet of the Saints.
In Romans 6:23;
23; the wages of sin is Death,
The penalty for sin is eternal death, not eternal life in a burning hell fire. God said that He would offer two things to us. He would offer eternal life, living life forever with Him or eternal death, being put to death in a Hell fire, seizing to exist forever. And He goes on to say that He hoped we would choose life, eternal life with Him. But it would be our choice to make.
Notice Psalm 37: 9-11,20;
9; For evil doers shall be cut off; but those who wait on the Lord, they shall inherit the Earth.
10: For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
11; But the meek shall inherit the Earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of Peace.
20; But the wicked shall perish;(be completely be destroyed, seize to exist) and the enemies of the Lord, like the splendor of the meows, shall vanish into smoke. They shall vanish away.
God is not a God of eternal torture; He is a God of love and compassion, even on the wicked. But Satan wants one to believe otherwise.
Psalm 68:2; also states-
2; As smoke is driven away, so drive them away; as wax melts before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
Now Psalm 104: 35; -
Verse 35; May sinners be consumed from the Earth, and the wicked be no more. Bless the Lord, o my soul! Praise the Lord.
David knew the fate of the wicked. He knew they would burn up. Be gone forever.
The following verses could not be any plainer.
Malachi 4: 1-3; -
1; For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn the up, says the Lord of host that will leave them neither root nor branch.
Notice how the statement is will burn them up not burn them forever.
2; But to you who fear my name the son of righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings; and you shall go out and grow fat like stall-fed calves.
Those verses describe very well how the wicked will burn up. When something burns up it does not exist anymore.
3; You (the saints) shall trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under your feet on the day that I do this, says the Lord.
Yes, the Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked. How can one get to be ashes except they burn up? You cant come to ashes if you burn forever and ever.
Yes, Malachi makes it extremely clear. The wicked will be stubble. They will be ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous.
Psalm 145:20: -
20; The Lord preserves all who love Him, but the wicked He will destroy.
We have seen what the Old Testament has to say about Hell, not let us go to the New Testament.
Again to John 3:16; -
16; For God so loved the World that He gave His begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Now to Romans 6:23; -
23; For the wages of sin is death, (eternal death) but the gift of God is Eternal Life in Christ our Lord.
The punishment for sin is death eternal, not eternal life in a burning hell forever.
Now 2Peter 3:10; -
Verse 10; But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the Heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the Elements will melt with fervent heat; both the Earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
Notice the judgment on both the just and the when Jesus Christ returns.
Matthew 13; 36-43, 49;
36; Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His Disciples came to Him, saying, explain to us the Parable of the Tares of the Field.
37; He answered and said to them; he who sows the good seed is the Son Of Man.
38; The field is the World, the good seeds are the Sons of the Kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39;The enemy who sewed them is the Devil, the Harvest is the End of the Age and the reapers are the Angles.
40; Therefore as the tares are gathered (those who do wickedly) and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
In these passages of Scripture the tares represent those who do not follow God and His ways. And because they do not they will be put to death, eternal Death.Not burn forever.
41;The Son of man will send out His Angles, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and those who practice lawlessness. (Those who teach against His truth and those who follow)
42;And will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43;Then the righteous will shine as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
49;So it will be at the end of the age. The Angles will come forth; separate the wicked from among the just
There is so much being taught from the Bible that is not the complete truth. When individuals go to Church they go expecting to receive the truth from their Minister, but are they really getting all the truth? Are individuals getting what God wants them to know and wants them to understand? Is it the responsibility of an individual to determine if what is being taught in Church is true? Is it ones responsibility to search the scriptures to check and see if what one is teaching is the truth and to not just nod their head in agreement?
Its true some go to church because they believe that is what is expected of them because they are a Christian. But there is more to it than just going to Church every time the door opens. It is the responsibility of an individual to make sure what is being taught by the Minister is correct. Most individuals go to Church because of tradition, family tradition. Most individuals go to a certain Church because their family belonged to it and as they were raised in that Church, they believe they are obligated to go to that Church. It has been so ingrained into their mind that there is no right way but their way. This is very dangerous for ones salvation.
It is understood throughout Christianity that Jesus Christ is the only way to obtain Salvation, or that is, Eternal Life. That Jesus gave His life for us for that purpose. But to be told that all one has too do is to believe in Jesus Christ and they will be saved is not all there is to making it into the Kingdom of God. Satan believes and well he knows that Jesus is the Son of God but he will not be in the Kingdom of God.
Jesus made the statement in Matt. Ch 4: verse 4;
4: But He answered and said, it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Jesus said that all scripture is given for inspiration. Without using all of it His Word cannot be understood.
In Matt. Ch 7: verses 22,23:
22: Jesus said: Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name cast out Devils? And in you name done many wonderful works.
23: Then I (Jesus) will profess unto them I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of iniquity.
The individuals being described here believed they were doing right in Gods eyes, but were they? It was not the fault of the people, but it was the fault of the ministers because of what the people had been taught. People were not getting the whole truth.
There is a teaching in the Churches in which they use to scare individuals in coming to Church and giving themselves to God. They preach that one will burn in Hell forever if they do not do this.
What I want to do is explain why this is not the truth about an ever burning Hell fire and what the Bible really has to say about it. Is God a God of good or is He a mean being with everlasting torture in His heart. Will He, when a good mother goes to Heaven and her son or daughter may not have made it to Gods Kingdom, letting him or her go to Hell, let her watch her son or daughter burn in hell for ever and ever? I believe this deserves an answer that is in your Bible and that the truth may be revealed to you.
John 3: 16; states ForGod so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life.
Please notice the word Perish in this scripture. In the Websters New Collage Dictionary the word perish means to come to nothing, to be destroyed.
The Bible is very clear that the wicked will not suffer in a burning hell fire forever. On the contrary, it says that they will perish. Those who sin will burn up and become ashes and will be trodden upon by the feet of the Saints.
In Romans 6:23;
23; the wages of sin is Death,
The penalty for sin is eternal death, not eternal life in a burning hell fire. God said that He would offer two things to us. He would offer eternal life, living life forever with Him or eternal death, being put to death in a Hell fire, seizing to exist forever. And He goes on to say that He hoped we would choose life, eternal life with Him. But it would be our choice to make.
Notice Psalm 37: 9-11,20;
9; For evil doers shall be cut off; but those who wait on the Lord, they shall inherit the Earth.
10: For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
11; But the meek shall inherit the Earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of Peace.
20; But the wicked shall perish;(be completely be destroyed, seize to exist) and the enemies of the Lord, like the splendor of the meows, shall vanish into smoke. They shall vanish away.
God is not a God of eternal torture; He is a God of love and compassion, even on the wicked. But Satan wants one to believe otherwise.
Psalm 68:2; also states-
2; As smoke is driven away, so drive them away; as wax melts before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
Now Psalm 104: 35; -
Verse 35; May sinners be consumed from the Earth, and the wicked be no more. Bless the Lord, o my soul! Praise the Lord.
David knew the fate of the wicked. He knew they would burn up. Be gone forever.
The following verses could not be any plainer.
Malachi 4: 1-3; -
1; For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn the up, says the Lord of host that will leave them neither root nor branch.
Notice how the statement is will burn them up not burn them forever.
2; But to you who fear my name the son of righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings; and you shall go out and grow fat like stall-fed calves.
Those verses describe very well how the wicked will burn up. When something burns up it does not exist anymore.
3; You (the saints) shall trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under your feet on the day that I do this, says the Lord.
Yes, the Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked. How can one get to be ashes except they burn up? You cant come to ashes if you burn forever and ever.
Yes, Malachi makes it extremely clear. The wicked will be stubble. They will be ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous.
Psalm 145:20: -
20; The Lord preserves all who love Him, but the wicked He will destroy.
We have seen what the Old Testament has to say about Hell, not let us go to the New Testament.
Again to John 3:16; -
16; For God so loved the World that He gave His begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Now to Romans 6:23; -
23; For the wages of sin is death, (eternal death) but the gift of God is Eternal Life in Christ our Lord.
The punishment for sin is death eternal, not eternal life in a burning hell forever.
Now 2Peter 3:10; -
Verse 10; But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the Heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the Elements will melt with fervent heat; both the Earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
Notice the judgment on both the just and the when Jesus Christ returns.
Matthew 13; 36-43, 49;
36; Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His Disciples came to Him, saying, explain to us the Parable of the Tares of the Field.
37; He answered and said to them; he who sows the good seed is the Son Of Man.
38; The field is the World, the good seeds are the Sons of the Kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39;The enemy who sewed them is the Devil, the Harvest is the End of the Age and the reapers are the Angles.
40; Therefore as the tares are gathered (those who do wickedly) and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
In these passages of Scripture the tares represent those who do not follow God and His ways. And because they do not they will be put to death, eternal Death.Not burn forever.
41;The Son of man will send out His Angles, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend and those who practice lawlessness. (Those who teach against His truth and those who follow)
42;And will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43;Then the righteous will shine as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
49;So it will be at the end of the age. The Angles will come forth; separate the wicked from among the just
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The destiny of all humanity, is to live forever with God, there are no exceptions in Gods mind to this, all our fates have long ago been sealed, Jesus came that we all will have eternal life, not eternal death. Religions will find a way to deny this and make a bed in hell for many unbelievers, or teach some kind of doom is ahead for much of humanity, eternal death teaching is no different than eternal sufferng belief, both deny humanity salvaion. Both teachings are from the murderous mind of satan, who wants everyone dead eternally. This evil beings first conscious thought was to see to it that everything is destroyed forever. Thats how he thinks, its how he can only think, and any doctrine that will take eternal life away from any human, reguardless of any situation, under any circumstance, is a doctrine of the devil.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Exception of Matthew 20:28 that Jesus ransom sacrifice covers 'many' not all.
If all are sealed then why does Revelation 7:9 mention an un-numbered great multitude?
Why present a choice at Deuteronomy 30:19 if no choice is allowed?
Why was Joshua allowed a choice? -24:15
Sure Satan wants everyone dead forever. Without the promised resurrection that would be the case. And without the divine intervention for those living at the time of Matthew 25:31,32 when Jesus comes in action that would be the case. Instead, Satan is destroyed by Jesus (Hebrews 2:14B), but the 'upright' will remain as Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30 says.
Jesus is the 'seed' of Genesis 3:15 that deals Satan the fatal death bruise to his head.
If all are sealed then why does Revelation 7:9 mention an un-numbered great multitude?
Why present a choice at Deuteronomy 30:19 if no choice is allowed?
Why was Joshua allowed a choice? -24:15
Sure Satan wants everyone dead forever. Without the promised resurrection that would be the case. And without the divine intervention for those living at the time of Matthew 25:31,32 when Jesus comes in action that would be the case. Instead, Satan is destroyed by Jesus (Hebrews 2:14B), but the 'upright' will remain as Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30 says.
Jesus is the 'seed' of Genesis 3:15 that deals Satan the fatal death bruise to his head.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
What is it that humanity really needs? To be judged and face the consequences of our behavior? To be held up against Gods Righteous standards, which hardly any human could do anyway? To be created, exposed to satan and evil, muchless our own fleshly manners, and condemned because of our failure to beat those monsters?
No, humanity NEEDS Grace, Forgiveness, Love, Patience, Hope, Salvation with no cost, ultimate understanding and a chance to recover from the religous right wing forces that help to condemn this world. This is what we need, but the religous right has transformed our needs, into a compettition of right and wrong. We need our God to fix failure, not by a free will system of choice , but by a death of his Son that will cover our wrong choices and delete the failure of human will to qualify for salvation. satan was created with the power to deadly influence human will and choice, and God willnot leave us to ourselves to determine our eternity.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
No, humanity NEEDS Grace, Forgiveness, Love, Patience, Hope, Salvation with no cost, ultimate understanding and a chance to recover from the religous right wing forces that help to condemn this world. This is what we need, but the religous right has transformed our needs, into a compettition of right and wrong. We need our God to fix failure, not by a free will system of choice , but by a death of his Son that will cover our wrong choices and delete the failure of human will to qualify for salvation. satan was created with the power to deadly influence human will and choice, and God willnot leave us to ourselves to determine our eternity.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
You know, it does not really matter what is presented to some individuals and the proof that is given, they have there on mind set to what they want and no matter what is presented to them, they would not accept. Even if Jesus Christ appeared to them in person and told them, it would not matter.
RamaRaksha
*banned*
Why bother with life? Why are you even here wasting away amongst us non-believers, when you can be with your god? Let's see if i get this right - you spend 60 odd years here on earth and then you spend eternity with god? 60 years is like a blip on a blip - so what is the point? Spread his religion while you are here? God is a proselytizer?
Our goal is not a flesh-happy heaven, but Moksha - Enlightenment of the soul. We are not being reborn, the soul is simply taking another form of life, it is eternal, neither dying or being born.
Karma & Rebirth teach us that we are accountable for our actions - if we cause an accident and were to die, a christian can ignore the anguish he had caused, beg for mercy and callously trip his way into heaven. A Hindu cannot do that - we have to take responsibility for our actions, come back in another life, make things right as much as we can. It's like what one would if he caused a crash and were to live unharmed - you don't simply run away, you stop and help the injured. Take responsibility for the accident, stand tall and deal with the consequences. That is what karma teaches us.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
This is what stuns me about religion, and why I am finished with it; They think that God gave Conscious Life to humans, put us in a hot sinful flesh, surrounded by evil influences much stronger than we, and then will judge us according to how we respond under that pressure. If we fail, then he will torment us forever, or kill us forever. That just makes no sense to me, mostly because of what I have read in the Bible about Christ and God, they have much more sense than religion gives them. They are going to do no such thing, and don't you believe Religion.
In John 10:10, Jesus said that he came here to earth so that all humans can have Life in Abundance, which means eternity. Thats the REASON for his MISSION from God! In 1John 4:14 it reveals very plainly that the Father is the one who commisioned Jesus to come here and save EVERYONE, to be a WORLD Savior and leave no unbeliever out. But you see religion wants to sanction out Salvation in a selective process that produces reasons that Christ will fail at his mission to save this entire planet and all the humans Adam has produced. That is really direct intervention from a venting satan the devil, insanely mad at God for his own existance. This evil being will do anything to disrupt and corrupt Gods commission to Christ to be the Savior of the World, and he uniquely uses religion, most notably Christianity, to help his mad rage at Gods plan of Life for all, except him and his demons. You see really its satan and his demons being left out, so he is changing the true gospel message into a message where many humans will be left out.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.