The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Beta]

I dont know what is the point of this post.

God said He wants us to shun evil and avoid and not do it, yet guess what He did?

Ecc 1:13 "an experience of EVIL God has given man"

So God, wanting us to avoid evil, puts us right in the middle of it. Put a bowl of cookies on the table, then place a 2 year old at a table and tell that 2 year not to touch or eat any of the cookies. See how well that works too. Or how intentional was it that [1] you placed some cookies on the table, [2] you put the child right there in arms reach to get the cookies [3] do you really not expect, no let me change that for God since HE IS ALL KNOWING, "declaring the END from the BEGINNING", do you not KNOW that the child will try to eat the cookies.

This god you praise, just how "all knowing" and purpose driven is he?

You are tipping the scales in your favour friend - rather unfair (if not downright false).
You liken the forbidden tree to ONE bowl of cookies. But weren't there MANY fruit trees in the garden A & E could eat from ? They most certainly were not limited to just one tree.
Don't make God out to be some ogre out to torment and trap man.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are tipping the scales in your favour friend - rather unfair (if not downright false).
You liken the forbidden tree to ONE bowl of cookies. But weren't there MANY fruit trees in the garden A & E could eat from ? They most certainly were not limited to just one tree.
Don't make God out to be some ogre out to torment and trap man.

RE: bowl of cookies -or bowl of candy

Isn't it more like a HUGH WAREHOUSE packed full of cookies and candies and they were told just to Not touch one piece in the middle of the warehouse?

 

[Beta]

RE: bowl of cookies -or bowl of candy

Isn't it more like a HUGH WAREHOUSE packed full of cookies and candies and they were told just to Not touch one piece in the middle of the warehouse?

Your analogy is similar to an orchard with many trees making the point that A & E had a WIDE choice.
AK4's example was rather more concentrated to just ONE BOwl (or ONE tree only) from which a child could not take as if there were no other bowls or trees to eat from. That is a false representation of the situation. AK4 lumped ALL the trees into ONE from which a child could not take/choose any.
This example just shows how easy it is for man to pervert scripture when not thinking clearly.

 

[AK4]

THEY DIDN'T POSSESS THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL UNTIL AFTER THEY ATE OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

See Genesis 3:11

But apparently as the passage shows she knew RIGHT FROM WRONG. They werent total idiots. Adam had already named all the animals God brought to him. Was already tilling the soil and etc etc. Gimme a break. You people hold on to your god of freewill and lucifer story and refuse to accept the Sovereignty of God and demean God with such silly false interpretations.

 

[AK4]

You are tipping the scales in your favour friend - rather unfair (if not downright false).

Am i? Or am i not adding to the word and gyrating it also to make it fit a doctrine that the church made up to make their freewill doctrine seem logical? Yes the true Word of God always tips the scales in its favor.

You liken the forbidden tree to ONE bowl of cookies. But weren't there MANY fruit trees in the garden A & E could eat from ? They most certainly were not limited to just one tree.

What difference would it make? Place a bunch of different kinds of cookies on the table or just place one. It doesnt matter. God was not stupid in knowing of what He was doing in placing good AND evil in ONE tree, placing the tree in the garden, placing Adam and Eve in the SAME garden, creating a serpent, PLACING the serpent in the SAME garden RIGHT WHERE Eve would had been exactly at that time to be in EYESIGHT of the tree so she COULD commit THREE SINS even BEFORE eating the fruit.

Im just happy the real MOST HIGH is not as stupid as christianity makes Him out to be.

Don't make God out to be some ogre out to torment and trap man.

Some orge out to torment?! Yet eternal torment in a barbeque pit that has demons ripping off flesh FOR AN ETERNITY is not making God "some orge out to torment"!!!

Oh btw about God "trapping man", that is exactly what He said He was doing or do you ....

Isa 30:12 - .... despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:

Trapped? Oh yes indeedy

Isa 28:13 - But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared (trapped), and taken.


The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 3369[/FONT]encodedOriginalWord[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/FONT] יקש [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]a primitive root[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]yaqosh[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]yaw-koshe'[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Verb[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]906[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. to lure, entice, snare, lay a snare or lure, set a trap
   1. (Qal)
      1. to lay snares (fig. of devices of wicked)
      2. fowlers (participle)
   2. (Niphal) to be ensnared, be caught by a bait
   3. (Pual) to be entrapped

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[AK4]

Your analogy is similar to an orchard with many trees making the point that A & E had a WIDE choice.
AK4's example was rather more concentrated to just ONE BOwl (or ONE tree only) from which a child could not take as if there were no other bowls or trees to eat from. That is a false representation of the situation. AK4 lumped ALL the trees into ONE from which a child could not take/choose any.
This example just shows how easy it is for man to pervert scripture when not thinking clearly.

Now as i show what exactly what the scriptures say compared to what you say and make up, who is the one who is perverting scripture? And its all for something that dont exist, freewill Sad

 

[Beta]

Ak4 , what do you mean it's all the same wheter or not the trees were separate ? or all the cookies in one bowl good and bad ? then told not to touch them ? If that is what you read in scripture it is you who is sad. A&E had a wide choice to choose from so they would not be easily tempted. God said of ALL the trees you may eat except of one. Is that not choice ? Does not Deut.30v19 offer man choice ? Why are you denying that ???
And when it comes to eternal torment in hell-fire I'm telling you that I don't see that in scripture and don't believe it. That is the product of traditional christianity which have a number of things badly wrong. I am a Bible-Christian and have nothing to do with their traditions. But on the other hand neither do I subscribe to self-reasoning Prov.3v5.

 

[Muffled]

Right here shows the timidity in christians! They cant handle the truth! God plainly states
Isa 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
and

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Am 3:6 -Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid ‡9? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? [/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Timid. Plain statements in the bible that have been translated correctly and yet christians who supposed to believe the Word of God DONT BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD! Just how timid are you to test your faith and doctrines to the Word of God and be and realise that "it is an experience of EVIL GOD [not man, not satan] has given humanity to humble him thereby" {Ecc 1:13 {CLV}}[/FONT]

This is the most unthought out thought ive ever heard. Do you actually believe this?

Oh and i guess an ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL God who says He knows "the END from the beginning" never knew that [if they they were created with freewill [i only use this for your silly argument]] the things He created wouldnt become evil. Oh how yall demean God with this freewill bullcrap.

Seriously, how far has protestants gotten away from their mother the catholics. Catholics made sunday the sabbath and the whole protestant world still bows in submission to this decree made by the catholics. Same thing with the hell doctrine. Gimme a break.

That expression comes from those who have been shown the truth and once were what people associate as christians. By definition, yes im still a christian, one who believes in Christ, but thats about as far as it goes with christendom. The only thing i resist is lies, falsifications, and half truths. If something is true then i have no choice but to accept it if i truly love the truth even if it destroys what i had previously believed. How many christians, protestant or catholic or whatever will do this? Hardly none.

You haven't shown anything. You simply make statements you can't back up.

You have a fact but you don't have the truth. You are trying to make this verse say that God originated evil at the beginning but the verse does not use the past tense but uses the on-going present tense. The evil that is referred to here is a perceived evil by men because of God's judgement on evil. Destroying the evil city of Sodom is construed as evil by men but it is actually a good thing to remove evil.

The concept is the same. God brings on bad things as punishement for man's evil ways. This is evident from the context of a trumpet being blown which would be a signal that the city was under attack. The Babylonian captivity is such an activity of God bringing down Jerusalem and putting the people in captivity as judgement for offering their children to idols.

I have no fear of those who take scripture out of context because I know the truth and will not fall easily to deceptions.

Even if He knows and could prevent it, that still does not mean that He originated it. Are you trying to say that God is working at cross purposes with Himself because He works to redeem men from evil but actuallly wants it to prosper? All of scripture points to me that evil is not the will of God.

No! I would not say that the protestant reformation has overturned everything in Christianity. Some things it has corrected and some it has not. I agree that the church should take a new look at Hell, not becasue it doesn't exist but because some unbiblical conceptions have crept in over the ages.

I know the Truth and you do not have it. The fact that you aren't following a shepherd only means that you are wandering even farther afield from the blind guides. There is only one way to get on the right path and that is to follow the Good Shepherd, Jesus.

Yes anyone with a will makes choices that create circumstances. Of course the anyone includes God who also has the ability to create circumstances if He wishes.

 

[Muffled]

Yet, all is of God, who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the
word of conciliation." (II Corinthians 5:18-19)

Rom 11:36 -
For from R536 Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To R537 Him {be} the glory forever. F193 Amen.
“For by Him [Jesus] were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible [unseen powers], whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him, and for Him. And He is before all things and by Him all things consist [‘has its cohesion,’ ]” (Col. 1:16-17).

Eph 1:11 -
also F14 we have F15 R30 obtained an inheritance, having been predestined R31 according R32 to His purpose who works all things after R33 the counsel of His will,

“…God which works [‘operates’] all in all ” (I Cor. 12:6).

“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING [Gk: ‘we ARE’—we exist]…” (Acts 17:28).

“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).

“Man’s goings [Heb: ‘steps’] are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).

“The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.” (Prov. 16:1).

“The Son of man [Jesus] can do nothing of Himself… without Me [Jesus] ye [all of you—all of mankind] can do nothing” (John 5:19 & 15:5].

“For God, Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness [not ‘in’ darkness], has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.” (II Cor. 4:6).

“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power BUT OF GOD: THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ORDAINED OF GOD” (Rom. 13:1).

“Then said Pilate unto Him, speak you not unto me? Know you not that I have power to crucify you, and have power to release you? Jesus answered, You could have no power at all against me except it was given you from above; therefore he that delivered Me unto you has the greater power” (John 19:10-11).

Etc etc etc etc. Do you still not believe the scriptures now? Did i "try but not be able" to prove my God and validate His words?

Nice try but "all" is an ambiguous word. I could say all apples are of God. does that mean apples are evil? I believe the Bible says that they are good. The question then is "What is the context for the "all" word in this verse? It is conciliation of course.

The context of this verse is determined by the word "for" which means there is a reference to something previous so that the "all things refers to that verse:
Rom 11:27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

I should think you can see what your problem is by now.

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a " Mental Handicap in Religion, and in Christianity", they can't get by the natural fear involved in it. They are afraid NOT to believe in it, paranoid of the mere suggestion that they could live their lives trying to please God, and yet still " Not Make It", and such a possibility strikes fear within them.

And let me show you in the comming days, why this whole mess is sick.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

As I have said in many of my posts the concept of eternal suffering in hell is not scriptural - if people would care to search through them.
(At least there we have something in common - m :yes: )

 

[AK4]

Ak4 , what do you mean it's all the same wheter or not the trees were separate ? or all the cookies in one bowl good and bad ? then told not to touch them ? If that is what you read in scripture it is you who is sad. A&E had a wide choice to choose from so they would not be easily tempted.

Eve was not easily tempted until like she said and GOD CONFIRMED "the serpent decieved her". And where do you see that they made a FREE choice?

God said of ALL the trees you may eat except of one. Is that not choice ? Does not Deut.30v19 offer man choice ? Why are you denying that ???

Who is denying choice? Not me. Yes we all make thousands of choices, but none of them are free. BTW freewill and choice are not the same thing. Only because of the deceitful theologians and scholars and "great thinkers" who MADE UP freewill is there a such thing called freewill

And when it comes to eternal torment in hell-fire I'm telling you that I don't see that in scripture and don't believe it. That is the product of traditional christianity which have a number of things badly wrong. I am a Bible-Christian and have nothing to do with their traditions. But on the other hand neither do I subscribe to self-reasoning Prov.3v5.

Thats very good and I thank God for opening your eyes some. You are slowing coming out of mystery babylon the great and listening to the command He gives in Revelation that says "Come out of her My people". If you want to really come out of all of the traditional christianity stuff, the biggest and hardest thing to come out of from her is the doctrine of freewill. Until you get rid of that tradition of not only christianity but all the world, which btw this doctrine permeates all of their doctrines and traditions, you are still hanging on to her.

 

[LittleNipper]

As I have said in many of my posts the concept of eternal suffering in hell is not scriptural - if people would care to search through them.
(At least there we have something in common - m :yes: )

All I know is that I'm not going there because I have a SAVIOR. I would never play down hell to make people feel good about the decisions they have made. A reality that everyone has a point of coming into existance but may exist in one form or another for all eternity, doesn't seem out the the question.

 

[AK4]

You haven't shown anything. You simply make statements you can't back up.

You have a fact but you don't have the truth. You are trying to make this verse say that God originated evil at the beginning but the verse does not use the past tense but uses the on-going present tense.

Did I? or are you assuming that i said "God originated evil at the beginning". Show me where i said this. No, and contrary to christian teaching Jesus was the very first creation, not lucifer or satan. When satan, not lucifer because lucifer is another one of those christian hoaxes, was created he was created a liar/murderer from the beginning. Jesus who God created everything through, created evil/create evil. He MADE the serpent/crooked serpent/leviathan/devil/satan a liar/murderer from ITS beginning. Not some fabled perfect angel who by definition of perfect WOULD NOT SIN because how can something be perfect and SIN!!!? Do christians actually think about some of their doctrines and see how STUPID they are?

The evil that is referred to here is a perceived evil by men because of God's judgement on evil. Destroying the evil city of Sodom is construed as evil by men but it is actually a good thing to remove evil.

So God who knows all, who created everything, didnt create evil? Can we say contradiction! No wonder there is no fear or reverence of God in the christian religions because they dont BELIEVE the scriptures that say "all is of God". Yet this god you guys praise isnt the creator of evil but he will commit those most evil act for all eternity by roasting and torturing most of HIS CREATION in real fire!!! UNBELIEVABLE!

The concept is the same. God brings on bad things as punishement for man's evil ways. This is evident from the context of a trumpet being blown which would be a signal that the city was under attack. The Babylonian captivity is such an activity of God bringing down Jerusalem and putting the people in captivity as judgement for offering their children to idols.

Wow so lets look at the context in Amos and see how you supposed to be followers of God answer the questions

1 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, 2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish F8 you for all your iniquities.

3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? You say NO


4 Will a lion roar in the forest, when he hath no prey? You say NO

will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing? You say NO

5 Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? You say NO

shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all? You say NO

6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid F9? You say NO

shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? All christendom say YES, YES the Lord has not done it.

So by you denying that the Lord has done it, is it me or you who "despise His word"?

I have no fear of those who take scripture out of context because I know the truth and will not fall easily to deceptions.

As shown above it is you who is STILL decieved and in deception. [Famous quote: can the decieved KNOW they are decieved?] Apparently not.

Even if He knows and could prevent it, that still does not mean that He originated it.

Oh so where does it say in scripture that any of God creation can originate something independant of God? Good luck finding it. (Ha, there is one that makes it SEEM this way but still is not the case]

Are you trying to say that God is working at cross purposes with Himself because He works to redeem men from evil but actuallly wants it to prosper?

Wow talk about misconstruing somebodys words.

All of scripture points to me that evil is not the will of God

.

Lets see if your statement here matches scripture

Ge 3:22 -Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

Lets see, God placed evil in a tree that had good in it also, placed Adam and Eve near it, made it look good for food,a delight to the eyes, and was desirable to make one wise, placed satan there to decieve them, and oh lets not forget that He says He has given man an experience of evil [why?] to humble him thereby, oh and dont forget whats said in Romans


Ro 8:20 -For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, BUT BY REASON OF HIM [GOD] WHO HATH SUBJECTED THE SAME IN [in what? what was the will of God for subjecting the creature to vanity?] HOPE,

Now how obvious is your christian dogma contrary to the Word of God?

No! I would not say that the protestant reformation has overturned everything in Christianity. Some things it has corrected and some it has not. I agree that the church should take a new look at Hell, not becasue it doesn't exist but because some unbiblical conceptions have crept in over the ages.

Oh so i guess freewill and the fall has nothing to do with Hell either? By your own words you will be judged and you just said "that the church should take a new look at Hell" and freewill and the fall all have to do with their hell doctrine.

I know the Truth and you do not have it.

Oh i dont huh? Not that i need confirmation from man, but anyone reading this post can see who is closer to the truth and it surely is not you.

The fact that you aren't following a shepherd only means that you are wandering even farther afield from the blind guides.

Oh i have a shepard and His name is Jesus and the truth. He has and is working through someone who has shown me the truth of the scriptures and the lies, falsifications and worse of all half truths of the christian religion. Thank God that God still gives me faith after learning the truth about this religion of contradictions.

There is only one way to get on the right path and that is to follow the Good Shepherd, Jesus.

Yeah you should try following Him. After all He addresses people like you here

Mt 7: -21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who calls Christ Lord? Athiests? Jews? Muslims? No, CHRISTIANS do. You might wanna take heed to this warning.

Yes anyone with a will makes choices that create circumstances. Of course the anyone includes God who also has the ability to create circumstances if He wishes.

Do you understand what you put? Are you saying our choices come before the circumstances? Nah i dont think you meant to say that so i will leave it alone.

 

[AK4]

Nice try but "all" is an ambiguous word. I could say all apples are of God. does that mean apples are evil? I believe the Bible says that they are good. The question then is "What is the context for the "all" word in this verse? It is conciliation of course.

The context of this verse is determined by the word "for" which means there is a reference to something previous so that the "all things refers to that verse:
Rom 11:27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

I should think you can see what your problem is by now.

Rubbish. So by your logic, i could twist and pervert the Word and say all doesnt mean all from this "all have sinned". Gimme break. Let your blind guides and shepards and theologians and scholars and "experts" lead you to believe such nonsense.

 

[AK4]

Quote:MUFFLED
The concept is the same. God brings on bad things as punishement for man's evil ways. This is evident from the context of a trumpet being blown which would be a signal that the city was under attack. The Babylonian captivity is such an activity of God bringing down Jerusalem and putting the people in captivity as judgement for offering their children to idols.

AK4
Wow so lets look at the context in Amos and see how you supposed to be followers of God answer the questions

1 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, 2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish F8 you for all your iniquities.

3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? You say NO


4 Will a lion roar in the forest, when he hath no prey? You say NO

will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing? You say NO

5 Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? You say NO

shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all? You say NO

6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid F9? You say NO

shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? All christendom say YES, YES the Lord has not done it.

So by you denying that the Lord has done it, is it me or you who "despise His word"?

Oh let me add to this what my "blind guide" also put about this same thing you parrot from your religion when He wrote something about 9/11 and America "the christian nation" in the scriptures. This below is a response from a speech given by the "great" Billy Graham and a pick up from what i put above.

Well that is what the Scriptures teach, but it is not what Christian theology teaches. They teach and believe that the answer to the first six propositions God presents, is "NO." But to the seventh, and final, and most important of all propositions, they answer "YES." YES, all evil in the cities happens independent of God.

God proposes six propositions, to which the answer is always "NO," so there will be NO doubt in anyone’s mind when He comes to the seventh proposition, there can be no question as to whether God is responsible for "evil in the city."
These Truths of Scripture are too high for any carnal mind to comprehend. How can "God" bring such evil to the cities? How could "God" destroy the World Trade Center? WHY would "God" destroy the World Trade Center? What saith the great seers of America? What advice do the prophets and seers of this great nation offer, when "a trumpet is blown in the city"—When God gives America a final "WAKE-UP call?" Let us see:

"That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will NOT hear the law of the Lord:
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets [inspired person, seer, spokesman, interpreter of divine revelation] Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to CEASE FROM BEFORE US" (Isa. 30:10-11).
​

What holy man of America would ever prophesy such a things? Prophesy LIES, SMOOTH things, DECEITS? Would America groom such a false prophet and have him address the entire Federal Government and all of her citizens and televise it to the entirety of the world, to have him tell them "All is well with America?" "God bless America?" "We are stronger than ever?" "God is not judging America?" "God did not bring this evil upon us?" "God is not the author of evil?" "Evil in the city is NOT OF THE LORD?"
Most Christians would no more know when a seer or prophet was speaking "lies, deceits and SMOOTH things" to them than they would recognize Satan if he were sitting across the table from them. Well let me give a 21st century example of a seer prophesying deceit, and smooth things.

Billy Graham addressing the nation after 9/11

"But what are some of the lessons we can learn? First, we are reminded of the mystery and reality of evil. I’ve been asked hundreds of times in my life why God allows tragedy and suffering. I have to confess that I REALLY DO NOT KNOW the answer totally, even to my own satisfaction… The Bible says that GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF EVIL."(CAPS are mine)

EDIT: Oh and let me do what Beta said i do in "tipping the scales in my favor" by giving not just one more witness to evil thing, but how about seven [oh is that the number of perfection]

Out of the mouth of the Most High proceeds not EVIL and good?" (Lam. 3:38).

"…and experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Old Testament).

"…I [the Lord] will raise up EVIL against you out of your own house…" (II Sam. 12:11).

"…I [the Lord] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great destruction" (Jer. 4:6).

"…thus said the Lord, Behold, I frame EVIL against you, and devise a device against you…" (Jer. 18:11).

"…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until He have destroyed you from off this good land… (Josh. 23:15).


"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL?..." (Job 2:10).

 

[berrychrisc]

God brings on bad things as punishement for man's evil ways.

God doesn't bring punishment down on anybody. Negative actions bring their own chain of effects back on the doer, and that is punishment enough. Sin is its own punishment.

I know the Truth and you do not have it.

Most problems with religion start with this statement.

 

[AK4]

God doesn't bring punishment down on anybody. Negative actions bring their own chain of effects back on the doer, and that is punishment enough. Sin is its own punishment.

Oh maybe i should have saved those scriptures i just gave muffled and show em to you and show you how you are just another person parrotting your priests and scholars and theologians.

Out of the mouth of the Most High proceeds not EVIL and good?" (Lam. 3:38).

"…and experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Old Testament).

"…I [the Lord] will raise up EVIL against you out of your own house…" (II Sam. 12:11).

"…I [the Lord] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great destruction" (Jer. 4:6).

"…thus said the Lord, Behold, I frame EVIL against you, and devise a device against you…" (Jer. 18:11).

"…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS, until He have destroyed you from off this good land… (Josh. 23:15).


"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL?..." (Job 2:10).

Now do what you say match up with these scriptures? No. Oh and by the way you say "God doesnt bring down punishment on anybody" right? Hhhhhh why cant people read and believe what they read. So if what you say is true then GOD IS A LIAR AND THERE WILL NEVER BE A "DAY OF THE LORD" which in Proverbs it says


Pr 16:4 - The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked [is this you?] for the day of evil.

So the Day of the Lord which only the Lord can bring will not happen because you and your christian people say so and is more powerful than the Most High.

Most problems with religion start with this statement

2 things.

1. Most problems with religion start with those who think they know something or scripture and make a religion out of what they dont know. They only parrot what the other blind guides or sheep in wolves clothing say instead of praying to God to give the eyes to see and ears to hear and heart to understand so they can find out what is really said in the scriptures.

2. If i, quoting scripture with multiple sciptures as witnesses, am wrong for quoting God from His plain statements then we all are in more trouble than we thought. I dont claim to have all the truth but God has shown me principles in His Word and by those principles one can easily thwart the deceitfulness of satan and "his ministers who turn him into an angel of light" and their doctrines and dogma.

 

[Beta]

..... but may exist in one form or another for all eternity, doesn't seem out the the question.

Man is mortal and does not have an eternal existence until we are ' born again in a resurrection '. While flesh and blood we are not immortal.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, I'm a Christian, and my Church's teachings on Heaven/Hell and Salvation/Damnation are quite a bit different than most. According to our theology, pretty much everyone who has ever lived will ultimately end up in Heaven.

But is that theology in harmony with Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6?

What about the 'forever' for those of Psalm 92:7?

Is Jesus offering eternal life for all at Matthew 25:32,40,46?