The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[berrychrisc]

Oh maybe i should have saved those scriptures i just gave muffled and show em to you and show you how you are just another person parrotting your priests and scholars and theologians.

I don't use the Bible as an ultimate authority so citing scripture references is pointless. I do not believe the Bible is inspired or inerrant. I definitely do not believe that it should be interpreted literally. If you want to base your life entirely on passages of the Bible instead of your own experience with God, be my guest. I've already been through my fundamentalist phase and have moved on.

BTW - I certainly don't parrot what Catholic priests and theologians teach, which is easy enough to figure out from my posts. Hence the title "Catholic Exile".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL?..." (Job 2:10).

Context/ background at Job [2:10] is that from the previous verses we can discern that Job jumped to the wrong conclusion as to who was behind the evil or calamity that was befalling him. Please see verse 7.

This is not to say that Isaiah [45:7] is wrong.
In Scripture evil is used in connection with calamity.
Calamity [evil] was used in order to protect the righteous, and once again will be used in behalf of the righteous of Matthew [25:37]. Jesus words will be an evil for the ones that are not placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak.
Matthew 25:46; 2 Thess 1:9; Isaiah 11:4; Rev. 19:15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

All I know is that I'm not going there because I have a SAVIOR. I would never play down hell to make people feel good about the decisions they have made. A reality that everyone has a point of coming into existance but may exist in one form or another for all eternity, doesn't seem out the the question.

Isn't that what pagan beliefs teach existing for all eternity: one form or another?
Where did those pagan teachings originate? _________ Not in Scripture because mankind was created mortal. Life was conditional upon obedience. No obedience/ No life.

If Jesus is your SAVIOR, wasn't your SAVIOR in hell according to Acts [2:27,31]?
Not meaning Jesus was in Gehenna [the garbage dump of destruction] but in hades/ sheol the common grave of mankind.

Isn't that why all in hell need to be delivered up from hell [gravedom] in order for hell to end up with all in hell delivered up before hell goes into 2nd death?
Emptied-out hell symbolically dies a death of never existing again.
Rev. 20:13,14.

Do the unforgiven [of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6] exist forever or are they like the ones of Psalm 92:7 destroyed forever or annihilated?

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is a " Mental Handicap in Religion, and in Christianity", they can't get by the natural fear involved in it. They are afraid NOT to believe in it, paranoid of the mere suggestion that they could live their lives trying to please God, and yet still " Not Make It", and such a possibility strikes fear within them.

And let me show you in the comming days, why this whole mess is sick.

Peace.

If eternal hell punishment were true, then Rev. 21:4 would wipe it out. Well its not true, but still this verse is;" And God shall wipe away EVERY tear from their eyes; and there SHALL NO LONGER BE any Death, Crying, Mourning, or Pain, all these things will PASS AWAY!

Listen, if eternal hell were true, then there would ALWAYS exist crying, pain and Mourning.

But its not true, and don't you believe that about God, he will do no such thing!

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

If eternal hell punishment were true, then Rev. 21:4 would wipe it out. Well its not true, but still this verse is;" And God shall wipe away EVERY tear from their eyes; and there SHALL NO LONGER BE any Death, Crying, Mourning, or Pain, all these things will PASS AWAY!

Listen, if eternal hell were true, then there would ALWAYS exist crying, pain and Mourning.

But its not true, and don't you believe that about God, he will do no such thing!

Peace.

The Maddness of hell is magnified by certain believers in God, because they want the suffering magnified, they want the pain on this earth magnified, they desire to extend forever, the crying and misery of unbelieving humanity.

This is the true nature of believers who desire hell torment to be real,

And I want to disect those believers true hearts.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The Maddness of hell is magnified by certain believers in God, because they want the suffering magnified, they want the pain on this earth magnified, they desire to extend forever, the crying and misery of unbelieving humanity.

This is the true nature of believers who desire hell torment to be real,

And I want to disect those believers true hearts.

Peace.

One of the most simplest things a human could do, is to condemn another human. And when they use the bible or religion to support the condemnation, they really feel justified in doing so. Its like when the early Christians were thrown to the lions in the arena by Romans, these Romans felt justified because they knew these Christians were not submitting to Ceasar.

The mindset of " Some Christians", because to be fair , not all Christians are so bloodthirsty for the blood of sinners, throwing unrepentant sinners who do not believe in God, in hell, is no different than the Romans killing early Christians who didnot submit to " The Empire." They think God is like humans, throwing unbelievers into hell, simply for not submitting to him.

This is maddness, and complettely insults the Holy Integrity of God.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

One of the most simplest things a human could do, is to condemn another human. And when they use the bible or religion to support the condemnation, they really feel justified in doing so. Its like when the early Christians were thrown to the lions in the arena by Romans, these Romans felt justified because they knew these Christians were not submitting to Ceasar.

The mindset of " Some Christians", because to be fair , not all Christians are so bloodthirsty for the blood of sinners, throwing unrepentant sinners who do not believe in God, in hell, is no different than the Romans killing early Christians who didnot submit to " The Empire." They think God is like humans, throwing unbelievers into hell, simply for not submitting to him.

This is maddness, and complettely insults the Holy Integrity of God.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Everybody is expected to decide for themselves, they either believe God or they believe you.
Of course you have the advantage of appealing to their human nature and making God out to be unfair and unjust.
Tell me this - why would you want to be in heaven with God if you don't believe him or want to do his will ? You seem determined to ignore much of what he says.
Btw, when did God start talking to you - he was not this morning. Now you seem to know exactly what he wants !

 

[mickiel]

Everybody is expected to decide for themselves, they either believe God or they believe you.
Of course you have the advantage of appealing to their human nature and making God out to be unfair and unjust.
Tell me this - why would you want to be in heaven with God if you don't believe him or want to do his will ? You seem determined to ignore much of what he says.
Btw, when did God start talking to you - he was not this morning. Now you seem to know exactly what he wants !

God has never spoken to me, I have eyes to read his word for myself, I will never make the serious error of allowing Christian interpitation to discern his word for me. Your view of Gods will and mine are totally differing. I view much of Christianity as " The brother of the prodical son." The Prodical son left his home and went out and spent his time sinning and enjoying the pleasures of this world. Then " He came to himself", and went home. The Father welcomed him and threw a feast. The brother of the Prodical son was angry and envious, because he never left home and was jealous, wanting the Father to reject his Brother.

The Father is symbolic of God, who is always willing to forgive. The Prodical son is symbolic of sinful humanity, which needs a Father like God, full of Grace. The brother of the Prodical son is symbolic of Christianty, which is really harsh on unbelievers.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

I am glad you mentioned the Prodigal son - a perfect example of his ' repentance ' and his Fathers forgiveness.
Why do you deny this to ordinary sinful humans, saying they need not repent ??? Yet you expect God to forgive them anyway. That's not what that story tells. The son apologized to his Father and mended his ways.
The same is expected of us !

 

[mickiel]

I am glad you mentioned the Prodigal son - a perfect example of his ' repentance ' and his Fathers forgiveness.
Why do you deny this to ordinary sinful humans, saying they need not repent ??? Yet you expect God to forgive them anyway. That's not what that story tells. The son apologized to his Father and mended his ways.
The same is expected of us !

Yes, its what Christians expect that perverts this story, not what God expects. This is not a story of Repentance, its a story of forgiveness. No human can repent of his own free will anyhow, the Goodness of God, must Grant the repentance, as Rom.2:4 cleary states.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

Yes, its what Christians expect that perverts this story, not what God expects. This is not a story of Repentance, its a story of forgiveness. No human can repent of his own free will anyhow, the Goodness of God, must Grant the repentance, as Rom.2:4 cleary states.

Peace.

Yes I agree - God grants repentance. And when ? When our heart is right with him ! The natural man can not please God nor obey his Will/Laws. So God has to leave us to work through a few unpleasant experiences to humble us - THEN we will be more receptive to him. We need to see that we can't make it on our own.

 

[mickiel]

Yes I agree - God grants repentance. And when ? When our heart is right with him ! The natural man can not please God nor obey his Will/Laws. So God has to leave us to work through a few unpleasant experiences to humble us - THEN we will be more receptive to him. We need to see that we can't make it on our own.

You have a need to factor man into conversion somewhere, a need to have humans in charge of their own destiny. A need to place mans choice before Gods choice. You think humans have to first " Get their hearts right", and only then will God respond.

It is impossible for a human to get their hearts right, thats a burden birthed from misunderstanding.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Couldn't there a difference between when our heart is right with him, and get their hearts right?

We can never get our deceitful hearts right - Jeremiah 17:9, but we can pray as David did at Psalm 51:10,11 for a clean or pure heart. So by the time of David's humble prayer his heart was getting right with God in repentance. -See also Psalm 86:11

Also isn't it possible to change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh?- Ezekiel 36:26,27

 

[Beta]

Couldn't there a difference between when our heart is right with him, and get their hearts right?

We can never get our deceitful hearts right - Jeremiah 17:9, but we can pray as David did at Psalm 51:10,11 for a clean or pure heart. So by the time of David's humble prayer his heart was getting right with God in repentance. -See also Psalm 86:11

Also isn't it possible to change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh?- Ezekiel 36:26,27

I entirely agree with your view. I'm afraid our friend mickiel has no room in his heart for repentance or change of heart so he does not understand that God considers the human condition.
There are many scriptures describing the different states of our heart - good and bad - and God takes note of all.

 

[mickiel]

I entirely agree with your view. I'm afraid our friend mickiel has no room in his heart for repentance or change of heart so he does not understand that God considers the human condition.
.

I am only concerned with how God himself judges my Heart, how humans judge me is meaningless. I will take my chances with God.

Peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am only concerned with how God himself judges my Heart, how humans judge me is meaningless. I will take my chances with God.
Peace.

If we do follow God's will as best we can then that is more than just taking one's chances with him.

Jesus said at John 17:3 to get to know God. We get to know God as Jesus did, even at an early age of 12, by knowing him through the knowledge found in the pages of Scripture and through prayer.
Jesus said we could ask God in prayer such as at Luke 11:13 b.

 

[mickiel]

If we do follow God's will as best we can then that is more than just taking one's chances with him.

Jesus said at John 17:3 to get to know God. We get to know God as Jesus did, even at an early age of 12, by knowing him through the knowledge found in the pages of Scripture and through prayer.
Jesus said we could ask God in prayer such as at Luke 11:13 b.

I don't know God, and as of now, cannot directly get to know him, those scriptures do not apply to me as of now. It would be nice if they did, but they don't.

As for now, I walk alone in the Darkness, God has me " Outside", and I cannot now come in. And I accept that from God, nothing I can do about it anyway.

Peace.

 

[Beta]

I don't know God, and as of now, cannot directly get to know him, those scriptures do not apply to me as of now. It would be nice if they did, but they don't.

As for now, I walk alone in the Darkness, God has me " Outside", and I cannot now come in. And I accept that from God, nothing I can do about it anyway.

Peace.

Mickiel , you are an extremely difficult person to converse with. One moment you quote scripture and are all for God , the next you say you don't know him and he says nothing to you.
JUST WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON ? ? ?
The reason you are out in the cold is not that God keeps you there but rather your own reasoning.
Our own human carnal nature keeps us outside because it refuses to give God eminence over us. I could give you scripture but in your present stubborn mind you would not accept it. People have to repent of such attitude in order to further hear God. So even if God granted you repentance you must meet him half-way - you know , like the prodigal son full of remorse on his way home. Your heart is yet too hard !!! Give it some thought friend !

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel , you are an extremely difficult person to converse with. One moment you quote scripture and are all for God , the next you say you don't know him and he says nothing to you.
JUST WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON ? ? ?
The reason you are out in the cold is not that God keeps you there but rather your own reasoning. !

The reason I am out in the cold, is because God wants me there. I live and move and have my being from him alone, no matter who accepts that or fails to understand it. This is the viewpoint from which God wants me to learn. And I submit to it , and I learn and grow in knowledge each passing day. I am not on the unbelievers side, I believe in God, I am not on the Christian side, I disagree with their understanding. Who's side am I on, I have continually shared that I walk alone, I take no sides.

I quote scriptures because I believe in them with all my heart, I bear witness that I do not know God, because I honestly don't. I reveal that he has never spoken to me, because he has not. Why you have problems understanding these, is of no intrest to me. I live in honesty, and will never lie about my dealings with God, thats something God does not want for me, he wants me to be for real, brutally honest about things. Espically my own condition.

I don't like being in this " Box", but I know and understand that one day God will release me, just not today. Christians prejudge people far before their time, if people do not now believe, Christians think thats it for them, its over, they are doomed. Christians are seriously mistaken, thinking now is the only day of Salvation.

You view me as difficult to converse with, I view Christians the same, normally they do not labor with me long, because they sense I do not like their understanding, which I truly do not.

I don't like believers who limit the Salvation of God.

Peace.

 

[AK4]

I don't use the Bible as an ultimate authority so citing scripture references is pointless. I do not believe the Bible is inspired or inerrant. I definitely do not believe that it should be interpreted literally. If you want to base your life entirely on passages of the Bible instead of your own experience with God, be my guest. I've already been through my fundamentalist phase and have moved on.

BTW - I certainly don't parrot what Catholic priests and theologians teach, which is easy enough to figure out from my posts. Hence the title "Catholic Exile".

I am no fundamentalists either, that was the last babylonian church i came out of when God really began to show me His truth in His word, but since you dont believe the Word of God which in Revelation says is Jesus is the ultimate authority then it speaks volumes on what you believe then.