The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[waitasec]

He knew enough to be the most controversial person that ever live.

ah, yes...the famous passage in john

the conversation took place in aramaic, at least most scholars agree to that
but the interesting thing is that the misunderstanding of the word "again" would not have occurred in aramaic...only in the greek
where "again" means from the beginning and from above
so my question is, did this conversation ever take place?
remember the gospel of john was written 95 yrs after

-jesus, interrupted
by bart d ehrman

 

[Danmac]

ah, yes...the famous passage in john

the conversation took place in aramaic, at least most scholars agree to that
but the interesting thing is that the misunderstanding of the word "again" would not have occurred in aramaic...only in the greek
where "again" means from the beginning and from above
so my question is, did this conversation ever take place?
remember the gospel of john was written 95 yrs after

-jesus, interrupted
by bart d ehrman

I said He is the most controversial figure that ever lived. That means that he is the most argued about. That is a historical fact.

 

[mickiel]

I said He is the most controversial figure that ever lived. That means that he is the most argued about. That is a historical fact.

I agree, he is the most controversial figure to ever live and the most argued,

And:

The most written about.

The most worshipped.

The most influencial.

The most prayed to.

The most popular.

The most misquoted.

The most sought after to destroy.

The most churchs under his name.

The most paintings of an individual.

The most denied.

The most deeply entrenched in our history.

The most feared.

The most misunderstood.

The most ever discussed on this forum, or any religious forum.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

I agree, he is the most controversial figure to ever live and the most argued,

And:

The most written about.

The most worshipped.

The most influencial.

The most prayed to.

The most popular.

The most misquoted.

The most sought after to destroy.

The most churchs under his name.

The most paintings of an individual.

The most denied.

The most deeply entrenched in our history.

The most feared.

The most misunderstood.

The most ever discussed on this forum, or any religious forum.

Peace.

To this we agree

 

[Thief]

For those coming late to this thread.....

Hell would be the absence of the one item you love most.
Would that one Item be....God?

When you share your presence with someone else...
that is a judgment call.
When you deny your presence and forbid they follow....
that is a judgment call.

God and His angels pick and chose.

Doesn't God have what it takes to go on without you?....forever?

 

[luvuyesua]

Danmac, Mickiel,Thief and waitasec, I love how the thread is going.

 

[mickiel]

Danmac, Mickiel,Thief and waitasec, I love how the thread is going.

Well I tell you, a lot of different people have contributed and debated on this thread. A thread can be a type of unity and education, thats one of the positive things communication offers.

Just look at the board, some threads just seem to spark things in people, draw them to it. And they just " Stay Alive" for awhile. Not much to do with the author of it, they just reflect how all of us may or may not feel, as our passions fill the thread.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell suffering is again, a reflection of how deeply entrenched crooked concepts can creep into, stay and grow, our Conscious society " Group mentalitys." If you give hell half a chance, it then becomes the only chance in your consciousness. Like a " Growth on the body", it becomes a " Growth on the Consciousness."

Remember the song;" Theres a thin line between Love and Hate", well that " Sounds Good", but its just not true. But we rehearse these concepts over and over again within our minds. Theres a big space between Love and Hate, totally oppisite emotions.

And there is a big space between Salvation and the condemnation of sinners to hell.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[Danmac]

And there is a big space between Salvation and the condemnation of sinners to hell.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Not really. Heaven and hell are only 18 inches apart.

 

[Misty]

Not really. Heaven and hell are only 18 inches apart.

How do you make that out?

 

[budha3]

You've stolen my thunder when it comes to the subject of Hell-Fire. it also seems as though you've taken a page from my book titled "The Parallel View"
The reasoning behind hell fire is that you will have a body that can feel the fire, but it will not consume you because this would be too easy; because you are suppose to suffer. Therefore we have to have a body that can feel the fire, but it will not consume your spiritual body, which it could not consume anyway, because as Apostle Paul stated that “our spiritual body is incorruptible.” So this spiritual body is supposed to be affected by this spiritual fire. This way the spiritual fire, which cannot be destroyed and your spiritual body, which is exempt from being harmed by anything, (incorruptible) must be tormented by a type of fire that is able to torment you, even though your spiritual body cannot be harmed by anything. Am I making any sense? Probably not because this reasoning is absolutely ludicrous. 1st Corinthians, 15: 53 states: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” You ever wondered why Apostle Paul missed this great opportunity to mention that some will rise to eternal bliss and some will rise to eternal torment?

 

[mickiel]

You've stolen my thunder when it comes to the subject of Hell-Fire. ?

No, I share your thunder.

Peace.

 

[it's_sam]

The Parallel View

Being able to find this is that sharing. Including everyone in your thoughts is what seperates us from our physical impulses to react without reason. There is only one path to truth and it takes all you can offer to find a glimpse. Savor the glimpse because the next person to be involved has a new truth. But there is only one question that really matters is true, do you believe in our father in heaven? If the answer is yes then believe what you know about him and he has a plan for us all if there is a judgement day are we to judge if its to be so or not? Would we know the full reasons of humanities thoughts and intentions as he would? One thing is clear, if you have faith he will show you a path. Theres allways a way out if your take responsibility for the act that trapped you in.

 

[Muffled]

Oh I see nobody gets butt raped in the UK huh? WOW! Exactly how are you under this realization? Have you personaly been to these systems and seen for yourself? The people in those prisons are there for a reason do you say people never get shanked in your prison systems? The UK prison system is so tip-top it is sinless?

I did jail ministry for twelve years at the county level where there are usually only common criminals. That means they have comitted crimes that only incur a sentence of 5 years or less. The worst incident we had was when a person from protective custody was returning from Bible study. He was attacked by another inmate who it turns out took exception to the fact that this man had been bonking his wife while he was in jail.

 

[Muffled]

Well they are basically the same as when I started it. I do believe God will punish humanity, ( I think he already is), but I do not believe he would punish them for a long extended time like eternity. I think were in a " Type of Hell now", where we all suffer to one degree or another.

Why should we live in suffering all of our lives, only to die, be ressurected, and then go through a far worse form of punishment, because we were not " Righteous Enough?"

I believe in God, but what I read about his Characther and nature, just does not add up to useless punishments of his creations.

Peace.

That is not how it works. Everyone has been offered absolution for past sins and salvation from future sins in exchange for your free will. So there is never a question of having to work hard to be more religious. For those who think they have free will and don't want to give it up the reality is that they are a slave to sin. As the Christian song goes. "You gotta serve somebody."

I agree with you there but that only precludes the fantisized notions of Hell not the reality of it. As with all prisons it puts evil actors out of commission and does it long enough for the righteous to thoroughly enjoy the absence of it. I believe that God is even handed with this but in human terms it seems like a long time to the next righteous cycle. (I suppose for those imprisoned in Hell it seems even longer, lol) However the righteous have an opt out clause where they can stay in Heaven which is OK if you don't miss the physical life. And God can decide that a person who is extremely wicked does not need a life even during the wicked cycle.

 

[Muffled]

What I think is that Jesus death has wiped humanitys slate of sin clean before God, thats why he came to earth- to take our sins away, as John 1:29 plainly reads to me.

As far as this belief of yours that evil will be around for an eternity, I simply do not see God as co-existing with evil in eternity. You don't seem to believe its in Christ power to totally change the very nature of 20 billion evil doers at the same time in mere seconds. You don't seem to be able to accept that God has the heart that can forgive 50 billion evil doers of all their sins in seconds, having no second thoughts about it. You don't think that God and Jesus have that kind of incredible grace and goal in their minds.

But I do.

Peace.

This is just wishful thinking. It doesn't bear up under scrutiny. The verse is true but the meaning you have derived from it is not. The verse has to be understood in context for its true meaning to be revealed.

There is no question that He can do it. It will happen for those who go into the Kingdom of God. However God will not subvert free will. Those who have chosen the Kingdom of God have willingly forfeited the abilty to do evil. The ones who wish to remain evil go to Hell.

 

[it's_sam]

I did jail ministry for twelve years at the county level where there are usually only common criminals. That means they have comitted crimes that only incur a sentence of 5 years or less. The worst incident we had was when a person from protective custody was returning from Bible study. He was attacked by another inmate who it turns out took exception to the fact that this man had been bonking his wife while he was in jail.

HAHA whoa that guy had better hope he prayed REAL hard at that bible study!! I take it didnt end well? Thats awsome you were involved like that, especialy in such a place. My best friend is in the pen. right now. Total BS though, ill try and make this story short.

So my friend is over at some other friends house with his woman and two kids. He had been outside talking and whatnot and came back in to his woman and one of his friend pulling away from eachother on the couch. Not much was left to imagination as to what they were doing and the guy knew better so he got socked. My friend gets his family into the car and they are driving back to their house (they live with his parents). On the way home they are still arguing and she is drunk and wants him to listen to her cause she is trying to say they were just hugging "he didnt care". So she grabs the stearing wheel and for some stupid reason pulls the car off the road before he can stop her. They run into a fence and stop on a rock with one side of the car still accessible. So my friend is STILL trying to get her to back off of him and he goes to get the kids out. He lets the one out that can walk and grabs the baby while is still yelling, but because he wasnt listening to her or talking back she pulls him arm and makes him drop the baby. He was done at this point and smacked her. The ruccuss brought the police after too long, and he told them everything. State law in Oregon is that during a domestic dispute call, someone has to go to jail for the night atleast. He knew he shouldnt have hit her so he also knew it would be him to go.

His woman was living at his parents house while he was gone, and in the meantime she had been talking to lawyers that had convinced her to press outragous charges against him including a restraining order. My friend being concerned for his children agreed to let her stay at his parents house and he would find somewhere to go when he was released. So he gets released and is at his parents house "only mom and dad home" and he puts on a hoody "sweater" that they share. He feels something in the pocket and pulls out a note. It was from his woman and written to the guy she had been caught with on the couch telling him all the things she wanted to do to him sexualy. Obviousely more PO'd then ever since he knew she was lying to him about it, he just left her a note on the bed saying that he found the note and its over. Because the woman had put a restraining order on him the note broke that restraining order, and has been locked up for a couple monthes now. I can only hope there is someone inside like you to help him in his time of need. Sad days... sad days..

 

[Misty]

This is just wishful thinking. It doesn't bear up under scrutiny. The verse is true but the meaning you have derived from it is not. The verse has to be understood in context for its true meaning to be revealed.

There is no question that He can do it. It will happen for those who go into the Kingdom of God. However God will not subvert free will. Those who have chosen the Kingdom of God have willingly forfeited the abilty to do evil. The ones who wish to remain evil go to Hell.[/quote]

You state as fact something that is pure assumption and belief.

 

[Thief]

And the drum beat goes on......back to topic.....

Did any mention an old story about a rich man, and the beggar at his door?

I think the names were Nicodemus and Lazarus.

As the story draws to a close.....
It would seem, all the characters are in close proximity to each other....
even though a 'great divide' is mentioned.

Description is such that travel, as well as touch....are possible....
even as Nicodemus is tormented by a parched tongue....
and Lazarus might be called upon for relief....within arms reach.

Perhaps the difference between the 'great divide',
and being within reach of each, other is the discussion we actually seek?

 

[mickiel]

Perhaps the difference between the 'great divide',
and being within reach of each, other is the discussion we actually seek?

Well can Christ close that devide? Does he have the power to close it? Well yes he does. Phil. 3:21;" Who will transform the body of our humble state ( of sin) into conformity with the body of his glory, by the EXERTION of the power that HE HAS to SUBJECT ALL THINGS to HIMSELF!"

Jesus has the sheer power to transform unbelieving sinners into conformity (or agreement and submission) to himself. The problem with many believers is that they think Jesus willnot use this against the human will, thus they are basing Salvation on human will, when it is based totally on Gods will.

If God put salvation in the hands of human will, then he effectively is dooming much of humanity,

And he would do no such thing.

Peace.