The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[URAVIP2ME]

waitasec-

What does Jesus say about work or labor at John 6vs 27,28,29 ?

Faith and spiritual works go hand in hand.
Kind of like if you have faith in the weather man assuring a bad blizzard is coming.
If you have faith in his words you would do works preparing for it.

See also John 5v17 where Jesus says his Father keeps working and so does Jesus.

 

[Midnight Pete]

The promise of eternal salvation is available to counterbalance the threat of eternal damnation. It's just a matter of choice. Accept or Deny. No one should feel like they are doomed to eternal suffering because God doesn't want that for anyone. Hell exists because sin can't exist where God is. Hell is really just eternal separation from God, not necessarily how we envision it. It is a place where the love & light of God are totally absent. People go to hell there because the momentum of their own choices (their karma) put them there.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The promise of eternal salvation is available to counterbalance the threat of eternal damnation. It's just a matter of choice. Accept or Deny. No one should feel like they are doomed to eternal suffering because God doesn't want that for anyone. Hell exists because sin can't exist where God is. Hell is really just eternal separation from God, not necessarily how we envision it. It is a place where the love & light of God are totally absent. People go to hell there because the momentum of their own choices (their karma) put them there.

Did the momentum of Jesus choices (his karma) put Jesus in hell ?
Acts 2vs27,31; Psalm 16v10

How can there be eternal suffering when hell is a temporary place according to Revelation 20 vs 13,14 ?
What does it say happens to hell after 'all' in hell are 'delivered up' ?

In order for a dead person to be aware that love and light of God are totally absent wouldn't they have to know that? How could the dead be aware when Ecclesiastes 9v5 says the dead know nothing?
What did the Psalmist believe about the dead at: 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4?
Since the dead do Not praise God, and are in a deep sleep-like state as Jesus described at John [11vs11-14] then the Biblical hell is mankind's common stone-cold grave until resurrection day or Jesus millennial-long day or reigning over earth. -Acts 24v15.

 

[Meow Mix]

The promise of eternal salvation is available to counterbalance the threat of eternal damnation. It's just a matter of choice. Accept or Deny. No one should feel like they are doomed to eternal suffering because God doesn't want that for anyone. Hell exists because sin can't exist where God is. Hell is really just eternal separation from God, not necessarily how we envision it. It is a place where the love & light of God are totally absent. People go to hell there because the momentum of their own choices (their karma) put them there.

So what about people who would believe in God if they just had a rational basis to do so -- if there were evidence, some reasonable justification?

I used to joke to my sweetheart, driving through Kansas, about a sign we pass on the way to her parents' house: "JESUS IS REAL." I would say, "Any salesman who has to convince me his product is real by asserting so is not likely to win me over."

Think about that for a second. If God is offering salvation, why all the trouble with convincing people that the "product" is real? Why is it so difficult for an omnipotent, omniscient being to demonstrate to people that He exists?

An omnipotent, omniscient being should know exactly what each person would consider sufficient evidence to believe, and I hardly doubt that if people knew heaven and hell were real that anyone would choose hell. I certainly wouldn't.

That's why I think it's very confusing when some people say people "choose" hell through disbelief. Either a belief is justified to hold or not; and I surely haven't seen anything resembling a rational justification for the existence of god(s), heaven(s), or hell(s). Surely an omniscient being, were it to exist, would know that if I had but just sufficient justification that I would totally be down with heaven.

Why is it a "game" for some believers? Some believers pretty much say that if you don't come to belief by the end of your life that it's too late, you're stuck. They say that if I, an atheist, die -- and only then find out that God is real, hypothetically -- that I will be told essentially "I never knew you" and off I go to hell.

That's utterly ridiculous. It's as though you were to pull someone off a street, present them with 100 doors (representing all the different possible things to believe while alive), and if you pick any of the 99 incorrect doors -- even though you don't have sufficient evidence to pick which one is the right one -- you're toast (literally, to some). How can people believe such a thing?!

 

[futureplanet]

man will belief anything if the bait is good enough

AND FEAR!!

Religion persists due to:

- comfort and consolense (believing the dead are ok)
- bait: false promises (that you can survive death)
- spirit of community (like minded believers banding together)
- fear (hell. used to control the doubters, and bring them back into line)

As far as I am concerned, the use of fear is something that exists very prominently in our daily life. Media, commerical companies, politicans and the religious use it. It is one of the most effective motivators. And, most definately in this case (hell) highly immoral.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The promise of eternal salvation is available to counterbalance the threat of eternal damnation. It's just a matter of choice. Accept or Deny. No one should feel like they are doomed to eternal suffering because God doesn't want that for anyone. Hell exists because sin can't exist where God is. Hell is really just eternal separation from God, not necessarily how we envision it. It is a place where the love & light of God are totally absent. People go to hell there because the momentum of their own choices (their karma) put them there.

So where does that put people who make good choices throughout their whole lives yet just won't accept your god? Does that one "bad" choice doom them to hell?

 

[Midnight Pete]

So where does that put people who make good choices throughout their whole lives yet just won't accept your god? Does that one "bad" choice doom them to hell?

The politically correct answer:

"Of course not, you are Self Lord and Master!"

The Christian answer:

"That is exactly how people doom themselves to hell. But God doesn't want anyone to be stuck in that place for eternity."

 

[Kriya Yogi]

I believe hell to be a state of mind wherein God is not seen or felt as bliss and love, which in comparison to that blissful consciousness could be "hellish." In other words when God is not present evil can exist and create a private hell in our consciousness. It could be why the bible states hell occurs when we choose not to find God.

Then again if its eternal hell after death then I say its a false belief made to scare them into following the religion.

 

[Meow Mix]

The politically correct answer:

"Of course not, you are Self Lord and Master!"

The Christian answer:

"That is exactly how people doom themselves to hell. But God doesn't want anyone to be stuck in that place for eternity."

Do you believe that people can get out of Hell then by turning to God after death?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The politically correct answer:

"Of course not, you are Self Lord and Master!"

Damn Straight

The Christian answer:

"That is exactly how people doom themselves to hell. But God doesn't want anyone to be stuck in that place for eternity."

If God doesn't want anyone there, why does he send people to hell? Isn't is as simple as not sending them there, or better yet not even creating such a place?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If God doesn't want anyone there, why does he send people to hell? Isn't is as simple as not sending them there, or better yet not even creating such a place?

According to Romans 6v23 death is the price tag that 'sin' pays.
So it is 'sin' that sends people to hell.
Jesus also was in hell [Acts 2vs27,31,32] until God resurrected him.
If one could stop sinning, one would not die.
Since we can not stop sinning we die,
and like Jesus [who died for us] go to hell.
So, according to Scripture, the Biblical hell is mankind's common grave.
Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrection.
John 11vs11-14; Acts 24v15
So while one is in hell [gravedom] the Psalmist wrote regarding the dead at: 6v5 that in death there is no remembrance; 13v3 the dead sleep; 115v17 the dead do not praise God; 146v4 at death thoughts perish. Also in the book of Ecclesiastes [9v5] Solomon wrote the dead know nothing.
So the Biblical hell is mankind's stone-cold common grave or sleeping place until resurrection day or Christ's millennial-long day of reigning over earth.
This all starts at the time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32 when those righteous sheep-like people living on earth at that time have the prospect of never having to die but have everlasting life in view [v46] right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

 

[Misty]

According to Romans 6v23 death is the price tag that 'sin' pays.
So it is 'sin' that sends people to hell.
Jesus also was in hell [Acts 2vs27,31,32] until God resurrected him.
If one could stop sinning, one would not die.
Since we can not stop sinning we die,
and like Jesus [who died for us] go to hell.
So, according to Scripture, the Biblical hell is mankind's common grave.
Jesus believed the dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrection.
John 11vs11-14; Acts 24v15
So while one is in hell [gravedom] the Psalmist wrote regarding the dead at: 6v5 that in death there is no remembrance; 13v3 the dead sleep; 115v17 the dead do not praise God; 146v4 at death thoughts perish. Also in the book of Ecclesiastes [9v5] Solomon wrote the dead know nothing.
So the Biblical hell is mankind's stone-cold common grave or sleeping place until resurrection day or Christ's millennial-long day of reigning over earth.
This all starts at the time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32 when those righteous sheep-like people living on earth at that time have the prospect of never having to die but have everlasting life in view [v46] right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

It sounds a totally silly nonsense to me. But I gave up believing in fairy tales when I left childhood!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It sounds a totally silly nonsense to me. But I gave up believing in fairy tales when I left childhood!

Isn't death a reality?

Why do people die or what causes people to die?

 

[Wotan]

Isn't death a reality?

Why do people die or what causes people to die?

Most often failing organs but accident and violent crime are factors also. The same is true of EVERY organism we know about. And it obviously must be that way. The earth has a finite ability to support life.
Further death does serve a useful purpose. It is a necessary condition for evolution and human progress.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Do you believe that people can get out of Hell then by turning to God after death?

No. It's too late to recant at that point. Turning to God slightly before death is more timely. Turning to God after you're dead is like deciding to go over Niagara Falls in a barrell and having second thoughts about it just as you go over the edge.

 

[Meow Mix]

No. It's too late to recant at that point. Turning to God slightly before death is more timely. Turning to God after you're dead is like deciding to go over Niagara Falls in a barrell and having second thoughts about it just as you go over the edge.

Does God finally reveal himself before death so that people can make an informed choice, then?

Or is going to heaven still just the lucky blind lottery of happening to choose the right god to worship?

Would you agree or disagree that having to make a choice without real evidence that has infinite ramifications is unfair?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Does God finally reveal himself before death so that people can make an informed choice, then?

Or is going to heaven still just the lucky blind lottery of happening to choose the right god to worship?

Would you agree or disagree that having to make a choice without real evidence that has infinite ramifications is unfair?

1. A choice informed by faith, yes.
2. The One True God is the right god to worship.
3. No one will ever have infinite understanding, and I agree that this is unfair.

I've chosen my words very carefully and I hope they are of some benefit. For obvious reasons, I can't answer every question you might have. I'm not qualified to be any kind of teacher or mentor or guru. I'm just a fellow traveller.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Would you agree or disagree that having to make a choice without real evidence that has infinite ramifications is unfair?

I agree, it is unfair. I believe salvation is a gift that you can choose to accept or reject.

I'm not hung up on "right choice", "wrong choice". I believe there are many choices.

To quote the music group Rush, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

 

[Meow Mix]

1. A choice informed by faith, yes.
2. The One True God is the right god to worship.
3. No one will ever have infinite understanding, and I agree that this is unfair.

I've chosen my words very carefully and I hope they are of some benefit. For obvious reasons, I can't answer every question you might have. I'm not qualified to be any kind of teacher or mentor or guru. I'm just a fellow traveller.

1) But faith can cause you to believe anything -- any god, any fairy in your garden, any monster under your bed. People in the world believe different things depending on where they're raised for the most part; are you saying that in order to reach Heaven we have to be lucky enough to be born in a Christian country? Because most people who are not born into Christianity do not end up as Christians.

Why would God use such an inefficient system to save people? Isn't something wrong there? Does it unsettle you that mostly only Anglo-Saxon Westerners are entering heaven if what you say is correct? Don't you think a God can come up with something better to save more people from Hell? Do you really believe this is happening... or is that just the answer you feel you think you should give?

I don't mean to ask 1,000 questions but it literally just blows my mind how someone can truly believe that God sends most people to Hell simply for "accidently" being born into the wrong culture and learning about the wrong gods. Does this question ever bother you, really? (I don't mean for my incredulity to be offensive either, it just really concerns and bothers me on some deep level that it could be that way).

2) So how do you arrive to the conclusion which God is the true one? If you take 100 people from a given area, probably 95 of them will tell you that the dominant religion in the area is the "true" religion and their god is the "true" god.

Are you really telling me that only Americans, some Europeans, a handfull of Chinese and groups of Africans are the only ones to get into heaven? Everyone else goes down the tubes because they just happened to be born in the wrong place and learned about the wrong gods?

3) Nobody needs "infinite" understanding; but it would be nice to have some actual evidence from the "right" God. I mean... think about it, just really stop your life for a second and really, truly, think about it.

We enter this life knowing next to nothing, and as children we're so malleable with our beliefs that if someone tells us a fat man in a red suit goes around the world once a year to give good children presents -- we believe it hook, line, and sinker.

Couple that with the fact that depending on where you are born, you're taught about different kinds of gods and beliefs from your parents or general society from the moment you enter it -- usually beliefs that aren't compatible with Christianity in its entirety.

If Christianity is the only "correct" religion, why does God make it so difficult for these people to understand that God exists? On top of that, why is it possible for skeptical atheists to exist -- and no, I'm not talking about prepubescent whiners who raise their fists to the heavens and say "I hate you God, I'm not listening to you anymore" but the true, bona fide, de facto atheists like myself who just don't believe any of the religions in the world because there isn't evidence for any of their truth?

How can atheists like me exist if God exists? Wouldn't He want to make His existence known to EVERYONE so that they can make an informed decision to be with Him or not? I would most certainly be with God if I only knew that He existed, or had a rational justification for believing so! Doesn't He know that?

What kind of a psychotic jerk locks himself in a room, radios someone else to be his "prophet" and says "Tell the world to believe I exist, and if they don't believe you I'll let 'em burn" and then offers practically NOTHING to verify the story -- leaving reasonable people unsure of whether to believe it, to their (apparently) infinite pain and suffering for failing to believe something they never had any reason to believe?

Does that ever bother you? Do you ever think of it like that?

I know this post reeks of emotion, but that's only because I just fail to understand how anyone can believe that a loving God would do such a thing and never be able to really explain how that's still a "benevolent" thing to do. Can you explain it? Do you agree with it? If you were a god would you do the same thing?

 

[FluentYank3825]

Where did God's word come from? To whom was it entrusted?

It all depends on which Christian sect you profess membership in. Many of them have their own views on where this authority comes from.