The Situation in Egypt

[Alceste]

I know I'm usually a sarcastic, condescending *******, but I sincerely want to thank you, kai, for helping to make this conversation more interesting. * hugs *.

Edit: I can't even mis-spell bitsh? Amazing.

 

[kai]

why am i suddenly afraid LOL

 

[Alceste]

why am i suddenly afraid LOL

lol. Shut up and hug it.

 

[Sahar]

Great video Sahar i hope the dreams of the people interviewed are brought to fruition by the politicians . what are your visions for the future? In fact what are any of the Egyptians members visions of a new Egypt? the people in the square , their enthusiasm is infectious, but what do people want in practical terms? a western style democracy? an Islamic republic? an Islamic style democracy? I know people will say freedom but Its time for politicians to bring forward their plans and manifestos so the people can see how they intend to bring about change for the better of all Egyptians.Its time now to formulate a political strategy on the way forward, otherwise the opposition will be in disarray when its time for the elections.

No, this time hasn't come yet. When we see the demands of the revolution being achieved, the talk about ideologies shall come.
Want to quote what Wael Ghonim said: "This is not the time to split the pie and enforce ideologies."
Until then we all must be united. When we establish freedom of political parties' formation and fair elections, the people will decide what they want. Personally, I have no desire at all to fight over ideologies. I just want to see our simple demands achieved.

 

[kai]

No, this time hasn't come yet. When we see the demands of the revolution being achieved, the talk about ideologies shall come.
Want to quote what Wael Ghonim said: "This is not the time to split the pie and enforce ideologies."
Until then we all must be united. When we establish freedom of political parties' formation and fair elections, the people will decide what they want. Personally, I have no desire at all to fight over ideologies. I just want to see our simple demands achieved.

There is a chance the continued protest in Tahrir square could become irrelevant to the political change process if nothing is formulated before the elections. what next boycott the elections? theres a danger of Egypt going down the drain financially. The decision to vote for whoever they want must begin now by people being able to choose on the basis of platforms and manifestos or eventually it will be just civil unrest and not civil change.

 

[Sahar]

Very good video that narrates with pictures the story of the revolution...the video started with pictures of oppression, torture and humiliation:
[youtube]ZxzhcU5ah2o[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxzhcU5ah2o&feature=player_embedded#

 

[Sahar]

All sectors are participating:

 

[Sahar]

There is a chance the continued protest in Tahrir square could become irrelevant to the political change process if nothing is formulated before the elections. what next boycott the elections? theres a danger of Egypt going down the drain financially. The decision to vote for whoever they want must begin now by people being able to choose on the basis of platforms and manifestos or eventually it will be just civil unrest and not civil change.

First guarantee fair elections supervised by the judiciary then we can talk about platforms and manifestos...otherwise it's completely meaningless to talk about them...
Why can't you understand that we haven't reached this stage yet?

 

[kai]

First guarantee fair elections supervised by the judiciary then we can talk about platforms and manifestos...otherwise it's completely meaningless to talk about them...
Why can't you understand that we haven't reached this stage yet?

i do understand! i am saying that people who ever must talk to each other otherwise how are you going to get this guarantee? what administration is going to guarantee it? whose officially talking about this on your behalf and to whom?

 

[Sahar]

Posted it in Islam Forum and want to share with you what one of women of the revolution says:

A message to our families outside Tahrir Sqaure; why do we keep protesting?

Some of my family and of my friends whom I witness to be people of reason and sincerity, are demanding me and the protesters to be content with what has been achieved so far, on the basis that they received the message and understood the strength of people's rejection to its previous practices .. and promised to change the policies .. and a lot of symbols of the previous stage has fallen .. Ahmed Ezz and Adli and Gamal Mubarak .. And all what Mubarak wants is a few months to save face .. What do you want more than that?.. especially that people are tired of chaos in the streets and suspension of the payment of salaries..

My family and my dear friends .. I hope that you open your ears to me:

First: Mubarak said in his famous speech that "he realized the legitimate demands of the people and will work to achieve them," and after a few hours, he sent us thugs riding camels and horses .. and began beating us with knives and whips .. and ended up with the snipers shooting us with live bullets.. Can we trust the promises of who acts this way? ..300-400 martyrs have fallen since the start of the revolution and 3000-4000 were injured .. some of them lost their eyes .. the blood of all those is a trust in our hands .. If we gave it up, we will lose all our simple achievements.. The regime will return more aggressive and tyrannical .. And more martyrs will fall as double as those already fell down .. Most importantly, we will lose the new hope that was born among the Egyptians to build the new Egypt, the free Egypt .. Egypt that establishes the principles of freedom, dignity and social justice .. It won't be then a matter of waiting for a few months .. but this will be abortion of the revolution .. and we will have to wait another 30 years for the birth of a new revolution.

Second: those who say that people are tired of the current situation .. We hope that they think who is being responsible for this case? .. of closed banks and suspension of salaries payment?? Who opened the doors of prisons all over Egypt and called thugs and who are registered dangerous, to us?? Who withdrew the police from the streets who set the hands of thugs free to attack the cities and to exhaust the citizens in staying awake at night to protect their homes?? Who suspended supplying the petrol stations with petrol and which paralyzed all traffic .. for the transfer of food commodities to the markets?? Think with me; are not these additional crimes by the current regime and Mubarak, added to the crimes of the past 30 years?? And is it fair to blame the demonstrators who sacrifice for a new dawn for the sake of everyone?

As for the emotional aspect that affects some people and that it is not right to expel the father if one disagreed with him .. The fact is what makes me wonder at those who view Mubarak as their father; Is there a father who shoot his children with live ammunition, molotov cocktails, knives and swords .. and orders the security vehicles to run over them??

Third: the talk about foreign agendas because of the presence of foreigners with us is strange .. because the solidarity between peoples became an important and frequent concept and lets remember our feelings during the revolution Tunisia .. and remember the multinational Freedom Flotilla that went to break the siege on Gaza .. and remember the stance of Venezuela and Argentina against Israel which was more powerful than that of all the Arab countries .. This is the solidarity between peoples .. Shall we reject it?? The strange thing is the accusations of our cooperation with America and Israel!! Who are the official most important allies to America and Israel in the region!!!?

Dear our people .. retreating now is the cemetery of the revolution and of the newborn hope for freedom and dignity .. We need you all .. You are our family .. Don't let the executioners divide the Egyptians .. Victory is near, God willing .. we only need to be one hand.

Ok, I used Google translate and made many modifications. So forgive any bad translation. http://www.facebook.com

 

[kai]

I am a practical and not to emotional person so really in all honesty i salute the Egyptian people for where they are now but they need to find a path to democratic transition quickly before insecurity, economic chaos and political disaster take over.

 

[Kathryn]

Amen, Kai. I understand the people wanting free elections and a more democratic form of government, but the claims that there are no plans or goals or hopes beyond this point seems, at the least, naive to me. SOMEBODY has some plans - and I am sure that everyone involved has a mental image of the Egypt they would like to see emerge. Everyone has hopes for the future, and they are usually quite a bit more expansive than a vision of a ballot box.

Whose name do they want to drop in the ballot box? Which political party do they envision supporting?

 

[kai]

Amen, Kai. I understand the people wanting free elections and a more democratic form of government, but the claims that there are no plans or goals or hopes beyond this point seems, at the least, naive to me. SOMEBODY has some plans - and I am sure that everyone involved has a mental image of the Egypt they would like to see emerge. Everyone has hopes for the future, and they are usually quite a bit more expansive than a vision of a ballot box.

Whose name do they want to drop in the ballot box? Which political party do they envision supporting?

I totally agree but i also understand how wonderful it must be in Egypt to get caught on the crest of this wave but the wave will break one way or another and serious business will have to be attended to by people and those people will i am certain have their agenda after all they will be politicians.

 

[Sahar]

i do understand! i am saying that people who ever must talk to each other otherwise how are you going to get this guarantee? what administration is going to guarantee it? whose officially talking about this on your behalf and to whom?

For sure, it's not the current corrupt one. I have many fears, frankly. Sulaiman is playing with the time card especially that he is backed up with the US and Israel. With time, protests in Tahrir Sqaure will become boring and isolated and there must be other escalating moves.

Mr Suleiman, who is widely tipped to take over from Hosni Mubarak as president, was named as Israel's preferred candidate for the job after discussions with American officials in 2008.

As a key figure working for Middle East peace, he once suggested that Israeli troops would be "welcome" to invade Egypt to stop weapons being smuggled to Hamas terrorists in neighbouring Gaza.

WikiLeaks: Israel's secret hotline to the man tipped to replace Mubarak - Telegraph
Sulaiman is dangerous to the revolution and he represents well the corrupt dirty regime and surely represent the US and Israeli interests.

 

[Kathryn]

I totally agree but i also understand how wonderful it must be in Egypt to get caught on the crest of this wave but the wave will break one way or another and serious business will have to be attended to by people and those people will i am certain have their agenda after all they will be politicians.

True dat.

I lived in Germany when the Berlin Wall fell. The euphoria, in both the east and the west, was amazing. People were ecstatic! I was too. It was
an amazing time - and in the end things turned out well for the East, and for that I am very glad.

In fact, in the time that I lived there, we traveled throughout Eastern Europe and were greeted with great affection - because we were Americans. It was a great time to be in Europe and to be an American, because we symbolized freedom and many of the goals of so many of the people. The emotionalism of it all was exhilarating.

This transformation of the former Soviet bloc states and countries was not without huge challenges though and I am probably one of the few RF members who actually lived through some of those first hand.

One thing that really sticks out in my mind is how the East German refugees swarmed into West Germany - and I can't blame them, because East Germany was a virtual gulag. However, they depleted the social programs and tax dollars of West Germany in very short order, and had a very negative impact on the German economy for a long time.

That's OK - the end result turned out well. But what struck me at the time is that there seemed to be no plan for this transition. Did this come as a complete surprise to West Germany?

I lived very near the border, near the Fulda gap. Crime became rampant, shoplifting was very common, and many of the refugees seemed to feel as if it was their right to come over the border, steal from shops and yards and garages, and even CLOTHESLINES - and that the West should just understand this.

I saw how the joy turned sour with the West Germans pretty quickly.

However, being the models of efficiency that they are known for, Germans got their act together fairly quickly. But they had a lot of support from democracies surrounding them - and their goals of a secular democracy were very clear cut - even if their path there wasn't clearly defined. I mean, basically all they had to do was adapt to West Germany's government which was already in place. It took many years, and East Germany to this day is not as prosperous as West Germany, but they "broke on thru to the other side" and that's great.

Egypt's situation is not nearly as easy to pull off. And the goals are not nearly as clearly defined. The emotionalism WILL wear off and at some point, the banks simply must open and people with jobs simply must be able to return to work.

Though the people may not have much of a plan, there are people who do, and they are working 24/7 to accomplish their own goals at this time. I want to know who the people will support. I am sure that every one of the political parties involved have clearly defined policies ALREADY regarding Sharia law, interaction with non Sharia countries and entities, and how to address the issue of Israel/Palestine.

Those are valid questions, and I would think that they aren't new questions to the Egyptian people. So surely they have preferences regarding these issues. What are they? They may not feel like focusing on these issues while the emotional exhilaration and feeling of power is so prevalent - and who can blame them in a way? It feels GREAT to topple an oppressive regime and I am one hundred percent understanding of their joy and excitement right now. But I know that while they are rejoicing, more pragmatic and powerful forces are working tirelessly to gain the upper hand. It's the nature of man.

We're in for some interesting times ahead.

 

[UmmSqueakster]

A group of law professors issued a statement yesterday:

Statement from Cairo University- faculty of law
Issued from the discussion forum held on 7/2/2011 around legal and constitutional solutions to meet the needs of the Peoples revolution


On Monday the 7th of February 2011 the professors of the faculty of law at Cairo university met and after many fruitful discussions and thorough analysis of the parameters of constitutional thought and what is best for our country in order for it to correspond with the great leap & the revolution of the Youth of the Nation which has both been welcomed and backed by many communities within the nation , presented to the nation from a pure conscience and in reaction to the new developments that have affected the entire nation's sentiments . Presented here to the great Egyptian nation are the results which the forum has reached in regards to what must be done for the good of the nation at this historical juncture in our beloved country
The forum has reached the following conclusions:


Firstly : To completely support and back The revolution of the 25th of January which was sparked by the pure and uncorrupted Youth of Egypt in which all the diverse communities of Egypt joined to demand freedom , democracy and the sovereignty of the law , the achievement of social justice and calling to account the corrupt and those who have hindered the fate of this nation and honoring the blood of the martyrs which was spilt in the cause of the nations freedom and upholding the dignity of the citizen.


Secondly – Withdrawing all legitimacy from the current regime


Thirdly – Calling upon the President of the Republic to comply with the will of the nation as expressed by the public


Fourth - The Necessity of the instant dissolution of both Parliament and the Shura Council due to the impossibility of their meeting as a result of final sentences issued from the High Constitutional court which nullify the results of the elections in many constituencies


Fifth- A call for the creation of a founding committee devoted to the creation of a new constitution that is in accordance with the current phase, with the condition that all political ideologies are represented in this committee as well as civil society organizations and all Egyptian communities


Sixth – The delegation of all presidential powers to the vice president, as permitted by Articles 82 and 139 of the constitution in accordance with their correct interpretation


Seventh – The expansion of the current structure of the government in order for it to be an interim government dedicated to the nations recovery


Eighth- The issuance of decrees from the republic which would create laws that launch the right to create political parties and allowing citizens the rights of election and nomination for public office


Ninth- The swift restructuring of the state authorities in accordance with the new constitution


Tenth – The immediate termination of the enforcement of the Emergency law


Signed on behalf of the attendees
Dr Ahmed Awad Belal​

 

[Sahar]

To the claim that we are celebrating the victory and we removed the oppressive regime, with all due respect there is no joy or excitement in that sense. The situation is 1. The demands are not achieved until now. 2. Men of the revolution are still pressuring to see their demands achieved. 3. The authority is working on aborting the revolution.
Of course there is a joy of breaking the barrier of fear and that Egyptians could at last speak their minds but this is old news, what is going on in the streets is not celebrations, it's still actions to enforce change and in their sight the demands are not achieved yet, that is why they are still demonstrating. The oppressive regime is still in power whether led by Mobarak or Omar Sulaiman and is still fighting to keep its power.

 

[Sahar]

To put you in the picture:
Protesters in the Egyptian capital are holding mass demonstrations, with a new wave of optimism reaching the pro-democracy camp following the release of the detained cyber activist, Wael Ghonim.
As demonstrations seeking an immediate end to Hosni Mubarak's rule enter their 15th day, protesters - set up in makeshift tents in central Cairo's Tahrir [Liberation] Square - are refusing to leave until their demands are met.

Mass protests continue in Egypt - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

 

[Sahar]

People are still fighting for their rights. The time of celebration of victory didn't come yet for men of the revolution!

 

[Alceste]

I am a practical and not to emotional person so really in all honesty i salute the Egyptian people for where they are now but they need to find a path to democratic transition quickly before insecurity, economic chaos and political disaster take over.

In fairness, Mubarak is causing the chaos, not the protesters. Do they control the banks? Do they control the police and pay people to attack others with petrol bombs? If Mubarak would just go, insecurity would not be as big a problem. Has Tunisia fallen into economic chaos and political disaster?

Seems to me the first order of business is kicking Mubarak and the NDP to the curb and establishing an interim government to plan a legitimate election. No doubt various opposition groups have various aspirations and objectives, but to accomplish the first step all of them need to be united. If Egypt can't oust the current regime, there's no point to anyone crafting a detailed political platform. The protesters might as well go home and just wait to be arrested and tortured to death for having unauthorised opinions.