The Situation in Egypt

[Kathryn]

Abibi caught you, but he was subtle about it.

Apparently EXTREMELY subtle.

My main point of course is that I have absolutely no qualms about admitting when I am wrong - or changing my opinion on something when presented with compelling and accurate information.

This is exactly why I am taking it upon myself to be as thorough as possible in my research regarding "the situation in Egypt" AND the largest opposition party in Egypt.

Knowledge is power.

You may not have noticed this, but I have been very vocal about my support of the Egyptian people FROM THE START of this revolution. That doesn't mean, however, that I check my powers of reasoning at the door. Not all change is necessarily for the better. Change simply for the sake of change doesn't imply wise decision-making skills or much of a plan.

We've learned that first hand here in the US.

Though to be fair, I bestow vast amounts of frubals on Obama for his calm, reserved, and reticent response to the events in Egypt and that region.
:run:

 

[kai]

Don't be a goof. We've discussed them at length. Links were provided, policies quoted. Parliamentary history of democratic activism touched upon. The implications of their understandable chilliness toward Israel discussed. You should start a new thread: "As far as Egypt is concerned, I don't care about anything but the MB and I want to talk about nothing but that, forever. Who's with me?". It looks as though you'll get at least one taker.

whos the goof ? am i in the wrong thread ? discussed what at length? what policies were quoted ? do you mean the policy titles with no explanations ? youve lost me i must be in the wrong thread because no one has answered any questions of mine.

we did have a brief talk about Yusuf al-Qaradawi but only you answered that so the silence was deafening over the Mbs spiritual leaders views on matters.

maybe we could talk about --well whatever interests you Alceste

 

[kai]

El Baradei is not part of the MB, yet he has not only their support but the support of four other opposition groups.

yeah that puzzles me somewhat, i didnt think he was that popular in Egypt

 

[Alceste]

yeah that puzzles me somewhat, i didng think he was that popular in Egypt

Sure, let's talk about this. My feeling is that perhaps the opposition groups recognize that after 30 years of exclusion from the political process, few of their members possess the experience and international credibilty that would be required to pull off such a huge program of reform. El Baradei is highly educated, internationally respected and has years of experience in the diplomatic arena. He's also very progressive in his politics (for the region), a firm believer in education and democracy. No doubt that appeals to the majority of the protestors, as those are two of their primary grievances against Mubarak's regime.

 

[Alceste]

Apparently EXTREMELY subtle.

My main point of course is that I have absolutely no qualms about admitting when I am wrong - or changing my opinion on something when presented with compelling and accurate information.

This is exactly why I am taking it upon myself to be as thorough as possible in my research regarding "the situation in Egypt" AND the largest opposition party in Egypt.

Knowledge is power.

You may not have noticed this, but I have been very vocal about my support of the Egyptian people FROM THE START of this revolution. That doesn't mean, however, that I check my powers of reasoning at the door. Not all change is necessarily for the better. Change simply for the sake of change doesn't imply wise decision-making skills or much of a plan.

We've learned that first hand here in the US.

Though to be fair, I bestow vast amounts of frubals on Obama for his calm, reserved, and reticent response to the events in Egypt and that region.
:run:

Re: Obama, I guess so, but I have my doubts. I suspect he was having a spell of strategizing about the optics. How to preserve conditions as favorable to American interests as the Mubarak regime's without appearing to reject a democratic uprising? I see they settled on supporting Suleiman while they pooh-pooh Mubarak for brownie points.

 

[kai]

Sure, let's talk about this. My feeling is that perhaps the opposition groups recognize that after 30 years of exclusion from the political process, few of their members possess the experience and international credibilty that would be required to pull off such a huge program of reform. El Baradei is highly educated, internationally respected and has years of experience in the diplomatic arena. He's also very progressive in his politics (for the region), a firm believer in education and democracy. No doubt that appeals to the majority of the protestors, as those are two of their primary grievances against Mubarak's regime.

he is a face that could fit in on the international stage but what about in Egypt ? does he have backing on the street. after all its not the protesters that have chosen him is it.

 

[Alceste]

he is a face that could fit in on the international stage but what about in Egypt ? does he have backing on the street. after all its not the protesters that have chosen him is it.

4 of the opposition groups and the MB back him to negotiate on their behalf. The MB doesn't go so far as to accept him as a prospective party leader. No doubt they hope to nominate one of their own when elections are imminent. Assuming the other 4 groups will accept him as their leader, the MB candidate will presumably be running against him and a US-backed representative of Mubarak's regime, like Suleiman.

 

[kai]

Mohamed ElBaradei launched a bid for the presidency on Wednesday night, but there are several other leading Egyptians who could challenge him for power.

Egypt crisis: leading candidates to vie with Mohamed ElBaradei for president - Telegraph

 

[UmmSqueakster]

[FONT=&quot]Be on the lookout for the english translation of just completed Dream TV's interview with the recently released Wael Ghonim. He represents the hopes and dreams of the youth, the underlying force behind these demonstrations that seem to be getting the short shift in discussion and news coverage of the Uprising.[/FONT]

 

[Alceste]

Mohamed ElBaradei launched a bid for the presidency on Wednesday night, but there are several other leading Egyptians who could challenge him for power.

Egypt crisis: leading candidates to vie with Mohamed ElBaradei for president - Telegraph

Looks like it will be an interesting election. Difficult to project an outcome.

 

[England my lionheart]

[FONT=&quot]Be on the lookout for the english translation of just completed Dream TV's interview with the recently released Wael Ghonim. He represents the hopes and dreams of the youth, the underlying force behind these demonstrations that seem to be getting the short shift in discussion and news coverage of the Uprising.[/FONT]

I believe the youths 6th April movement is the key to it all,wouldn't it be great if Wael Ghonim a Google executive became president

 

[Kathryn]

I could get behind that in a hurry!

Not that it much matters.

 

[England my lionheart]

I could get behind that in a hurry!

Not that it much matters.

I think its great

 

[Sahar]

People from Tahrir Sqaures speak as witnesses to how the square is full of MB, Iranians and Hamasists:
Videos Posted by R.N.N |

 

[England my lionheart]

Thanks for that Sahar

 

[Sahar]

[FONT=&quot]Be on the lookout for the english translation of just completed Dream TV's interview with the recently released Wael Ghonim. He represents the hopes and dreams of the youth, the underlying force behind these demonstrations that seem to be getting the short shift in discussion and news coverage of the Uprising.[/FONT]

Blogger's release 'reignites' Egypt - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
Egyptian anti-government protesters have welcomed the release of a Google executive who disappeared in Cairo last month after playing a key role in helping demonstrators organise.
Wael Ghonim was released on Monday by Egyptian authorities, sparking a fast and explosive response from supporters, bloggers and pro-democracy activists on the internet.
Ghonim's release came nearly two weeks after he was reported missing on January 28 during protests against Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak.
"Freedom is a bless[ing] that deserves fighting for it," Ghonim, Google's head of marketing for the Middle East and North Africa, wrote in a message posted on his Twitter account shortly after his release.
He said he was seized in the Egyptian capital, Cairo, late last month as he joined tens of thousands of protesters in the city's Tahrir Square, the focal point of protests aimed at calling on Mubarak to step down from his 30-year-rule in Egypt.
Ghonim said he was picked up by three plainclothes men on the street, pushed into a car and taken off for interrogation by state security members.

"Please don't make me a hero. I'm not a hero. I have been asleep for 12 days," he said.
"I hope that we would be able to put an end to all the rubbish in this country. The rubbish really needs to be cleaned up."
Ghonim gave a subsequent, emotional interview to the privately owned Egyptian channel Dream TV later on Monday.
"I am not a symbol or a hero or anything like that, but what happened to me is a crime," he told Dream TV.
"If you want to arrest me, that's your right. But there are laws and I am not a terrorist or a drug-dealer. We have to tear down this system based on not being able to speak out."

 

[Sahar]

What Wael Ghonem's said on Dream channel:
"I am not a hero. I only used the keyboard; the real heroes are the ones on the ground. Those I can't name. This is the season where people use the word traitor against each other. I wasn't abused, I was jailed, kidnapped. I met some really intellectual people in jail, they actually thought that we were traitors, working for others.

"If I was a traitor I would have stayed by the swimming pool in my house in the UAE.

"What are called the "facebook youth" went out in their tens of thousands on January 25th, talk to them. This is the era where people who have good intentions are considered traitors.

"My wife was going to divorce me because I didn't spend time with her, and now they call me a traitor. I spent all my time on the computer working for my country.

I wasn't optimistic on the 25th but now I can't believe it. Thanks to everyone who tried to get me out of jail. It's haram [sinful, not right] for my father to lose his sight in one eye and now is at risk of losing it in the other. I kept thinking "are people thinking of me?" I was wondering if my family knew where I was, my wife, dad, mother.

"I am proud of what I did. This is not the time to settle scores. Although I have people I want to settle scores with myself. This is not the time to split the pie and enforce ideologies. The secret to the success of the facebook page was use of surveys.

"I met with the minister of interior today. He sat like any other citizen. He spoke to me like an equal. I respected that. The youth on the streets made Dr Hossam Badrawi [General Secretary of NDP] drive me to my house today.

"They transfered me to state security; it's a kidnapping. On Thursday night, at 1am I was with a friend, a colleague from work. I was taking a taxi, suddenly four people surrounded the car, I yelled "Help me, help me". I was blindfolded then taken away. I will say this as it is: nothing justifies kidnapping, you can arrest me by the law, I am not a drug dealer or terrorist.

"Inside I met people who loved Egypt [State Security people] but their methods and mine are not the same. I pay these guys' salaries from my taxes, I have the right to ask the ministers where my money is going, this is our country.

"I believe that if things get better those (good state security people he met) will serve Egypt well. Don't stand in our way, we are going to serve Egypt. I saw a film director get slapped, they told him "You will die here". Why?

"Now they want to have an agreement with me when they are in a position of weakness. I am not a hero, I am a normal person. What happened to me was a crime but I still thank those who tried to got me out. I am an educated person, I have a family. Badrawi told me we took all the bad people out from the NDP. I told him I don't want to see the logo of the NDP ever again.

"The NDP got this country to where it is. You can create a new party. It looks like I might be kidnapped again after this.

"There were 300 fake registrations on my facebook page, all negative comments, about how we were allegedly being paid. I was the admin of the page but others paid for it. We are dreamers.

"There was no Muslim Brotherhood presence in organising these protests, it was all spontaneous, voluntary. Even when the Muslim Brotherhood decided to take part it was their choice to do so. This belongs to the Egyptian youth.

"Please everyone, enough rumours. Enough.
The rest is here:
Live blog Feb 8 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs

That ended with him crying and saying:

"I want to say to every mother and every father that lost his child, I am sorry, but this is not our fault. I swear to God, this is not our fault. It is the fault of everyone who was holding on to power greedily and would not let it go. I want to leave."
Then he left the show before it ends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKuFpSJzMU&feature=player_embedded

 

[Alceste]

Thanks for the video, Sahar. I wish I could be there to see it. Such a joyful and hopeful gathering. I hope some of Egypt's enthusiasm for freedom, human rights and democracy spills over into the West. We've become complacent and our hard-won civil rights are being gradually eroded by increasingly authoritarian governments.

 

[England my lionheart]

Just watched the BBC News,Mubarak has upped public sector pay by 15%,he's desperate to hang in there

 

[kai]

Great video Sahar i hope the dreams of the people interviewed are brought to fruition by the politicians . what are your visions for the future? In fact what are any of the Egyptians members visions of a new Egypt? the people in the square , their enthusiasm is infectious, but what do people want in practical terms? a western style democracy? an Islamic republic? an Islamic style democracy? I know people will say freedom but Its time for politicians to bring forward their plans and manifestos so the people can see how they intend to bring about change for the better of all Egyptians.Its time now to formulate a political strategy on the way forward, otherwise the opposition will be in disarray when its time for the elections.