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The Situation in Egypt

Primordial Annihilator

Well-Known Member
If the hope is that Egypt will be replaced by a democratic government then that is a pipe dream I feel.
The CIA will surely get involved and will do another Iran, creating the way for some kind of theocratic despotism...as they did with Iran which was once before the americans got involved a democratic republic...those naughty americans....what ever will we do with them?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I don't think that Americans are the biggest problem Egypt has right now.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
If the hope is that Egypt will be replaced by a democratic government then that is a pipe dream I feel.
The CIA will surely get involved and will do another Iran, creating the way for some kind of theocratic despotism...as they did with Iran which was once before the americans got involved a democratic republic...those naughty americans....what ever will we do with them?

The CIA can do amazing tricks can't they and without anybody knowing :rolleyes:
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
There is certainly no warranty that Egypt will not develop much like Iran after ousting Mubarak.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
If the hope is that Egypt will be replaced by a democratic government then that is a pipe dream I feel.
The CIA will surely get involved and will do another Iran, creating the way for some kind of theocratic despotism...as they did with Iran which was once before the americans got involved a democratic republic...those naughty americans....what ever will we do with them?

That is kind of vague, not to mention a bit over-estimating of CIA's influence. At which point would you say that the americans got involved? I assume you mean the 1953 Operation Ajax, which was motivated by interests in oil?

1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Lady have you ever been to Iran? have you ever worked in Iran? Egypt maybe?
have you ever spoke Persian fluently with the Iranians, or Arabic with the Arabs?
Us, our families, and friends have been doing it for years.
oh, by a coincidence. we have been living in the same region, following the enfoldments of events in these nations and the entire region.
Egypt has been living under a single party dictatorship since the early 50's, when Nasser, one of the most celebrated leaders in modern Egyptian history established it. as I have ALREADY stated in this thread. as part of me doing the homework for other people.


The Egyptian leadership has been working relentlessly to build stability and security that leaders in the middle east have been aiming for, for a very long time. their achievements in various areas have been remarkable.


I think your morals are like those of the North American 'alternative' crowd which has protested in the most inefficient ways to end the Vietnam war. when Jewish Marine veteran and officer, and later CIA employee, Daniel Ellsberg, provided all the classified documents needed to end the war, the American public largely ignored it.
very tragic, considering his enormous self sacrifice. Ellsberg memorably said: I felt that as an American citizen, as a responsible citizen, I could no longer cooperate in concealing this information from the American public. I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision.
However people in North America, apparently still wait for others to do their homework for them, as long as they can feel good about themselves and keep the safety of their misinformation.
I can tell you what Jewish men who have took lessons from all that have done for a very long time, after following these events closely daily in current events, they worked and work relentlessly to have the best information they can have, the best experience they can have. so the next time, they can choose what to do with the information, and they will make sure it will be highly valuable and away from inexperienced public hands.
this is not even a conspiracy. it is just simple 'going out for yourself and see how things are', read all the valuable news and information resources, observe, observe observe. and stay up-to-date at all costs.

It's not enough to just read, read, read, Caladan. You have to maintain high standards of factual accuracy, objectivity, credibility, satisfactory referencing and vet sources for independence from propaganda outfits* (i.e. Western "free market think tanks" or state-controlled media in less sophisticated countries). Otherwise you risk getting into the habit of talking a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense and adopting their rhetorical style: snotty condescension in place of reasoned argument and ad hominem in place of reasoned rebuttal.

(*You ever tried that on an iPod Touch?)
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
I will wait eagerly for the democracy to start,can you show me a superior alternative alive and well? and is that a Canadian cowboy he looks a bit dubious to me

Scandanavian democracy is the best we seem to have come up with, and some of their political parties are nominally Christian, are they not?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
It's enough to make me wish the West would just pull everything out of the whole middle east - every ambassador, every oil deal, every dollar of foreign aid, and just let the whole region have at it amongst themselves.

Call us when the sand settles and maybe we can do some trading.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
It's not enough to just read, read, read, Caladan. You have to maintain high standards of factual accuracy, objectivity, credibility, satisfactory referencing and vet sources for independence from propaganda outfits* (i.e. Western "free market think tanks" or state-controlled media in less sophisticated countries). Otherwise you risk getting into the habit of talking a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense and adopting their rhetorical style: snotty condescension in place of reasoned argument and ad hominem in place of reasoned rebuttal.

(*You ever tried that on an iPod Touch?)
Are you kidding me? if that is all you got from what I have typed. you really are camping somewhere in a tipi and communicate with the rest of us from your laptop.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Don't you think Egypt's stability - or lack of same - will end up being far more a factor of its political and economic situation than of any beliefs?

I do. And by that token it is possible, but trick and unlikely, for that elusive "West" entity to make a positive difference. Trouble is, not too many people want it to.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Are you kidding me? if that is all you got from what I have typed. you really are camping somewhere in a tipi and communicate with the rest of us from your laptop.

No, I've read all your links in fact. I've read your posts and generally nodded to myself when you make factual statements. I haven't contested any of those. What I've got from your posts is that you are mainly attempting to demonstrate that Egypt has never known political freedom or democracy. I did not contest that point, I simply disagree that this is a rational reason to wish to deny them political freedom and democracy, or to dismiss the possibility that they are capable of achieving it.

The trouble is, Caladan, you're so busy trying to educate me (unnecessarily) on the history of Egypt you've forgotten to make a coherent point. It seems to me you are arguing that Mubarak is the best choice for Egyptians because he's no worse than the endless shower of corrupt, torturing dictators they've suffered under for the whole of their history. In order to be internally rational, this argument must be based on the assumption that no nation has ever made a peaceful transition to meaningful democracy after being ruled by a long shower of corrupt, torturing dictators for the whole of its history. Since this is obviously not the case (as EVERY democracy in history has been won from the whitened grip of corrupt, torturing dictators), the belief that Egypt can not ever have a meaningful democracy is obviously irrational.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh, my - watching the news and things seem to be turning more volatile in Egypt. Can't say I'm surprised but I have been hoping this doesn't happen.

Egyptian banks have been downgraded due to market insecurities about the Egyptian government's ability to safeguard and guarantee the banking system.

Bad sign.

I hope "the West" stays the hell out of this. I think our involvement can only make things worse.
 

maro

muslimah
8 millions protested yesterday..and yet ,he doesn't want to leave....what kind of pig is this ?!!!
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
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