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The Situation in Egypt

kai

ragamuffin
There are hundreds of thousands of Egyptians protesting, more every day. Who knows, if Mubarak clings to his throne much longer maybe the entire population will eventually participate. ;)

now that would be something 80 million people protesting Mubarak would have swam the red sea to escape that.

He is going in sixth months , its time for organised political parties to nail there colours to the mast and put up manifestos and platforms so we can see the cut of their jib.

otherwise i sincerely believe the same machine but revamped will be running Egypt after september because the rank and file of Egyptians wont have a clue who to vote for.
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
now that would be something 80 million people protesting Mubarak would have swam the red sea to escape that.

He is going in sixth months , its time for organised political parties to nail there colours to the mast and put up manifestos and platforms so we can see the cut of their jib.

otherwise i sincerely believe the same machine but revamped will be running Egypt after september because the rank and file of Egyptians wont have a clue who to vote for.


Allowing Mubarak to stay to the end of his term and oversee the changes will only further entrench the status quo. That is unacceptable to the protesters, and I agree with them. He needs to go and take Suleiman with him.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Yep thats the difference,the Egyptian peoples ****** are on the line,they can't stop now its a long time till September and there would obviously be reprisals,i can see this turning nasty,i mean in a big way because there is no sign of him going.


You got that right. This is very worrisome. I am totally in support of Mubarak leaving office by the end of February at the latest.

Problem with that is, has any clear leader for the people emerged? Will he/she (I WISH!) be qualified and able to restructure and lead a government, without adding violence and repression to the mix? It's not that I don't think there are capable leaders - but the current regime is so entrenched, it's going to be VERY difficult uprooting them and all their levels of corruption.

A peaceful transition seems very tricky, but it is my prayer for the Egyptian people.


I think along the same lines as you, but no one else seems interested and what or who is next, its not the time apparently.
 
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Hey if the whole government machine gave up and went home tomorrow morning what do you think would happen?
I think the situation would greatly improve. The Egyptian people have proved they are capable of organizing themselves and taking care of their country in spite of the regime's efforts to sabotage them. Without the regime standing in their way, the Egyptian people would be even more successful.

You probably think I am romanticizing the situation. But I don't think so. Consider this: right now, the "whole government machine" is inciting violence and spreading chaos. The government has deliberately abandoned providing security for neighborhoods, security for the National Museum. The government deliberately released criminals. The government hired plain-clothed thugs to attack protesters, to loot houses and businesses, and start street wars. In short, the government is trying to spread instability and violence, and oppose democratic reform. On the other hand, the people of Egypt have organized themselves into neighborhood defense committees for security from criminals and looters. The youths of Egypt, though they were unarmed, defended their nation's heritage at the National Museum from government thugs by locking arms. Doctors gave out free medical care and volunteers provided sandwiches and water to the protesters. Volunteers cleaned the streets. The people proposed a rational, practical course to democracy, which the regime has opposed at every step. Leaders of the protests urged nonviolence, while the regime urged violence.

So yes if the whole government machine gave up and went home tomorrow I think things would improve, including security and stability.

What happened when the British got up and left the colonies? The war ended. Peace and order were restored. Local people organized themselves into militias for security, much like the unarmed Egyptian "security committees". They sent representatives to ratify a national Constitution, which was ratified SEVEN years after the war ended. The process was peaceful because the people were united on the METHOD of government -- democratic elections -- which allowed them to resolve the fierce debates over particular matters in a peaceful and orderly way. I expect the same would happen in Egypt if the dictatorship would get out of the way.
 
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maro

muslimah
Don't lecture us about the british values ,I am interested in the Egyptian values !!


[youtube]t4r1QEe9r2U[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4r1QEe9r2U


What’s the real concern is not Islam or radicalism; it’s independence. If the radical Islamists are independent, well, they’re an enemy. If secular nationalists are independent, they are an enemy. In Latin America, for decades, when the Catholic Church, elements of the Catholic Church, were becoming independent, the liberation theology movement, they were an enemy. We carried out a major war against the church. Independence is what’s intolerable, and pretty much for the reasons that the National Security Council described in the case of the Arab world 50 years ago.

Noam Chomsky (Part 2):
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
180038_196761207003557_100000090370149_759331_4488519_n.jpg


The Martyr General Mahmoud Al-Batran who was killed by his colleagues, supporters of the corrupt regime, because he refused to open the doors of Al-Fayoum Prison and release the prisoners.

May God accept him as a martyr!
 
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darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard

dmgdnooc

Active Member
Hey if the whole government machine gave up and went home tomorrow morning what do you think would happen?

I think that the Egyptian Public Service would run things quite well while awaiting new political heads for their departments.
Just like in any other bureaucracy would, and Egypt's probably does, when the Boss is on leave.
Don't give the pollies credit for running the day-to-day affairs of the country, they don't deserve it.
 

kai

ragamuffin
I think the situation would greatly improve. The Egyptian people have proved they are capable of organizing themselves and taking care of their country in spite of the regime's efforts to sabotage them. Without the regime standing in their way, the Egyptian people would be even more successful.

You probably think I am romanticizing the situation. But I don't think so. Consider this: right now, the "whole government machine" is inciting violence and spreading chaos. The government has deliberately abandoned providing security for neighborhoods, security for the National Museum. The government deliberately released criminals. The government hired plain-clothed thugs to attack protesters, to loot houses and businesses, and start street wars. In short, the government is trying to spread instability and violence, and oppose democratic reform. On the other hand, the people of Egypt have organized themselves into neighborhood defense committees for security from criminals and looters. The youths of Egypt, though they were unarmed, defended their nation's heritage at the National Museum from government thugs by locking arms. Doctors gave out free medical care and volunteers provided sandwiches and water to the protesters. Volunteers cleaned the streets. The people proposed a rational, practical course to democracy, which the regime has opposed at every step. Leaders of the protests urged nonviolence, while the regime urged violence.

So yes if the whole government machine gave up and went home tomorrow I think things would improve, including security and stability.

well i guess we will have to speculate on that one as its not happening

What happened when the British got up and left the colonies? The war ended. Peace and order were restored. Local people organized themselves into militias for security, much like the unarmed Egyptian "security committees". They sent representatives to ratify a national Constitution, which was ratified SEVEN years after the war ended. The process was peaceful because the people were united on the METHOD of government -- democratic elections -- which allowed them to resolve the fierce debates over particular matters in a peaceful and orderly way. I expect the same would happen in Egypt if the dictatorship would get out of the way.

well it would have wouldnt it the colonists were british;)
 

kai

ragamuffin
I think that the Egyptian Public Service would run things quite well while awaiting new political heads for their departments.
Just like in any other bureaucracy would, and Egypt's probably does, when the Boss is on leave.
Don't give the pollies credit for running the day-to-day affairs of the country, they don't deserve it.

so i get the overall picture that Mubarak can go and the rest of the regime can stay ?I mean come on surely Mubarak hasn't been holding on to power all these years on his own?
 

Alceste

Vagabond
so i get the overall picture that Mubarak can go and the rest of the regime can stay ?I mean come on surely Mubarak hasn't been holding on to power all these years on his own?

They want them all out, but Mubarak is the main offender. He needs to leave so negotiations can progress.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I think that the Egyptian Public Service would run things quite well while awaiting new political heads for their departments.
Just like in any other bureaucracy would, and Egypt's probably does, when the Boss is on leave.
Don't give the pollies credit for running the day-to-day affairs of the country, they don't deserve it.
When I was a public servant I wouldn't even have noticed if the councillors stopped going to work. I knew my job and I did it.
 

kai

ragamuffin
When I was a public servant I wouldn't even have noticed if the councillors stopped going to work. I knew my job and I did it.

does Egypt have the same system you worked in? i dont know just asking really anyway it doesn't matter the government isn't going away just like that is it.

I think my main point is i think a steady hand over of power in September is best rather than a complete collapse of authority. because then you will have the military stepping in ruling Egypt and besides if people arnt interested in the political hues of the opposition for September they certainly wont be interested tomorrow.

Oh i know people are going to say they dont trust the government to hand over but the world is watching and i think they wouldn't try it .Right now i think they are just buying time to save their own skins.
 

kai

ragamuffin
They want them all out, but Mubarak is the main offender. He needs to leave so negotiations can progress.

Thats an emotional reason i think negotiations should be a priority of the political opposition now and continue.
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
Thats an emotional reason i think negotiations should be a priority of the political opposition now and continue.

It's a mere observation, not "an emotional reason". The protests will continue until he goes. Therefore, he should go now if restoring stability and normalcy is his actual ojective. Personally I think he's a stubborn, senile old megalomaniac more concerned about his legacy than the stability of Egypt.

I guarantee that the public services in Egypt are in the hands of people who, as we did in the council, know their job and get on with it. Politicians don't soil their hands directing the maintenance of roads and bridges or the running of schools. They sit around and argue until they decide how much funding to fork over so civil servants can get on with doing all the actual work.
 

kai

ragamuffin
It's a mere observation, not "an emotional reason". The protests will continue until he goes. Therefore, he should go now if restoring stability and normalcy is his actual ojective. Personally I think he's a stubborn, senile old megalomaniac more concerned about his legacy than the stability of Egypt.

I guarantee that the public services in Egypt are in the hands of people who, as we did in the council, know their job and get on with it. Politicians don't soil their hands directing the maintenance of roads and bridges or the running of schools. They sit around and argue until they decide how much funding to fork over so civil servants can get on with doing all the actual work.

Isnt there "stability" and "normalcy" outside tahrir square right now leading to transition in september?
 
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