The Song of Solomon, Chapter 5, Verse 16

[Rakhel]

I could have been meaner.

I did not say the rabbi read it wrong, just that you were not listening properly.

 

[mohamad Gamal]

I could have been meaner.

I did not say the rabbi read it wrong, just that you were not listening properly.

And I did not say that u said that I asked u from what u wrot previously that there are letters which might me be read like each other I now am asking how can all the rabbis I hered pronounce it wrong????


So if I am not mistaken we reached a point where we all believe that the name Mohamad is in the bible
if u say that the name is written there then explain to me how does the name exist there u will say its from god so I will say then Mohamad PBH is really a messenger of god ???I would love to hear ur answer but I will read it tommorow coz I am going to sleep so good night

 

[Rakhel]

yes you are mistaken.
you are forgetting the vav.

 

[mohamad Gamal]

yes you are mistaken.
you are forgetting the vav.

I know that was written before the vavs so u mustn't add them Beacause the one who wrote that didn't know of the vowels so u must read it as it was written not after the language has been modified see what I am getting at? Ok talk to you later and good night for real this time (last time I thought going to sleep but I felt that I had to see the response so...) good night

 

[glass]

u asked me if it does confirm any Islamic beliefs and the answer was yes

and what it tells me is that mohamad PBH is really a messenger from god and that he is mentioned in the bible therefore or at least as i can see it i should follow his teachings and praise one god


and as i said before that some Christians don't believe that his name is in the bible


and proves that some of the bibels have been tamperd with for translating names for example if a mans name is MR brown i cant translate the name to be brown (as a color) can i ?


p.s : plz answer me previous questions as i have answered yours

Ahhh. Yeah, that is a fundamental belief of Islam that the Bible and Torah are both tampered with.
Hmmm. No, I didn't listen to the video.
I just wanted to know why you would care about the Christian Bible when it is in fact not your Holy Scripture.

 

[mohamad Gamal]

Ahhh. Yeah, that is a fundamental belief of Islam that the Bible and Torah are both tampered with.
Hmmm. No, I didn't listen to the video.
I just wanted to know why you would care about the Christian Bible when it is in fact not your Holy Scripture.

it is not fundamental one can simply find out if he reads them and analyse them (or at least that is what happened to me while reading the bible) but u tell me if i tell u a sentence then u keep passing it to people after 15-70 years will the word remain the same????? (there is a game we used to play when we were young that we sit in a circle the first person says a word then the word goes around the circle then he finally says what he said and what was the word that he received try it i am 100% sure that the words will be different then how about a whole book that was kept for more than year )????? (knowing that jesus didn't write the bible and it wasnt written when he was alive and that it was an observation of jesus actions not 100% words of god ) and dont forget that jesus will abandon his followers where he said from the bible



""Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?""(Matthew 7:22)


""Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers"" (Matthew 7:23) so why do they worship him??????


plz listen to it or at least the last 15-10 sec



this might seem wired but when i was young i always wanted to understand Christianity i thought that they only praised Christ i never understood the trinity (but now i do and it seems wrong but never mind my opinion we shall talk about it later) anyway i had some christian friends i really wanted to talk about religion with them but how could i ???? i had no knowledge of their's or any deep knowledge of mine so i started searching and looking for answers i swear and god is my witness i don't want any thing from you or from the Christians all i want is for u to see things from my perspective (then its ur choice either to stay where you are or come to my religion ) i wanted to show people what i think is true if they can prove me wrong i will reconsider if they are proven wrong well.... they have a choice



and you are right its not my holy scripture but to make ur point clear you need proof and what is a better proof than their book????? what they call words of god what better proof there is ???? there is none, once you can find a contradiction or a proof ur faith is true you know you are right you will be more than happy to say oh god thank you for ur blessing of islam ............ thats why i try thats why.

 

[F0uad]

"Those jews changed their holy books and therefore changed the word of Allah!"
"Except of course those small parts we agree with! Even though it would have made more sense to change those! BUT NEVERMIND!!!"

Couldn't you at-least make it personally?

 

[Flankerl]

Huh? What do you mean?

 

[Poisonshady313]

last thing- mohamadim is written with this ח not ה this makes a huge difference in the pronunciation 2 letters 2 different names

It's obvious you don't know the difference between the two letters.


ח has a ch sound (Not like the word "Chinese", but like the word "Bach")
ה has a h sound (like the word "Hammer")

The word in biblical verse has a ח.
The name of the prophet of Islam, written in Hebrew, is spelled with a ה.

The letters are different. The sounds are different. The words are different.

 

[Poisonshady313]

2- hear this ( ://media.snunit.k12.il/kodeshm/mp3/t3005.mp3 )and be the judge (add http at the beginning coz i cant put a url )

Ok... I listened again more carefully... and I read along with him in the text.

Everywhere the letter ח occurs, he's pronouncing it wrong. He pronounces it a lot like the letter ה. This might be a source of your confusion.

The word, transliterated into English, would be more like Machamadim..

The "ch" sound is missing from your link because he's pronouncing it wrong.

 

[Rakhel]

Mohammad in Hebrew also needs the vav or a Cholem ( ו or וֹ ) to make to long o sound you hear.
As it stands the vowel sound that follows the מ is a Kamatz . Its that little thing that looks like a "t" under the mem. It makes the sound "ah" as in the word "saw".

 

[mohamad Gamal]

It's obvious you don't know the difference between the two letters.


ח has a ch sound (Not like the word "Chinese", but like the word "Bach")
ה has a h sound (like the word "Hammer")

The word in biblical verse has a ח.
The name of the prophet of Islam, written in Hebrew, is spelled with a ה.

The letters are different. The sounds are different. The words are different.

1-sorry for replying so late I was very busy so my apologies to you
2-I don't know Hebrew as a native speaker but I can see hear and pronounce correctly the letter that you are saying is in the name has a total different pro than the one in the name or in the Verse the name and the verse contain n this letter which is pronounciated as ch or h sound the letter u are referring to doesn't exist in the name plz tell me ur resource so I can check it out Beacause I can't find it anywhere in the name or in the verse Beacause I see the n not the opened n if it was the opened n it would have bean read mohemadim but I can assure u that I never saw it written with the opened n not in any bible plz tell me where did u get that from??
3-I repeat this was written before the vouels were added to Hebrew so if u want to read the verse read it as it was written Beacause anything is going to be miss understood if the main language was changed and let me ask u a question just Beacause I am curious that column the I did it exist before the 8th century ??????
4-what do u think Jesus is? god?? Son of god? Or a messenger or anything else plz tell me?
5-in the time of christ how many prophses were the people of Israel waiting for ??
6-last question I listened to this verse 4 times each time read by a different rabbi (keep in mind that they were all reading as the language was before the 8th century before the vouels the 4 of them read it mohamadim so what is the main reason that u can't read it like they did ???? Or are they all mistaken?

 

[mohamad Gamal]

"Those jews changed their holy books and therefore changed the word of Allah!"
"Except of course those small parts we agree with! Even though it would have made more sense to change those! BUT NEVERMIND!!!"

I just wanted to say I don't blame the Jews of this century for not believing in Allah like Muslims or in the trinity like the Christians the problem is that they lock themselves up and they don't interact with Muslims or Christians I can bet that if anyone in the world read the holy books he would say that they have points in common which are more that their differences and any one would know where the world of god is and where the word of man would be Beacause I hope I am quoting correctly if the sheep can know the voice of their owner why can't a man with his mind and heart know the words of his creator!!!!! And there are people in the world trying to put things right for example the people who made the revised standard version of the bible and has Been acknowledged that it is the closest to the real bible they are truying to guide the people back to the right path not like the people who try to change the word of god (from any religion )
Plz excuse me if I misquoted and thank you all for participating in this conversation

 

[Rakhel]

The Vav has always been a part of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. If the vav was not there prior to the 8th century, then the O sound you are looking for isn't there either.

 

[Poisonshady313]

1-sorry for replying so late I was very busy so my apologies to you
2-I don't know Hebrew as a native speaker but I can see hear and pronounce correctly the letter that you are saying is in the name has a total different pro than the one in the name or in the Verse the name and the verse contain n this letter which is pronounciated as ch or h sound the letter u are referring to doesn't exist in the name plz tell me ur resource so I can check it out Beacause I can't find it anywhere in the name or in the verse Beacause I see the n not the opened n if it was the opened n it would have bean read mohemadim but I can assure u that I never saw it written with the opened n not in any bible plz tell me where did u get that from??
3-I repeat this was written before the vouels were added to Hebrew so if u want to read the verse read it as it was written Beacause anything is going to be miss understood if the main language was changed and let me ask u a question just Beacause I am curious that column the I did it exist before the 8th century ??????
4-what do u think Jesus is? god?? Son of god? Or a messenger or anything else plz tell me?
5-in the time of christ how many prophses were the people of Israel waiting for ??
6-last question I listened to this verse 4 times each time read by a different rabbi (keep in mind that they were all reading as the language was before the 8th century before the vouels the 4 of them read it mohamadim so what is the main reason that u can't read it like they did ???? Or are they all mistaken?

Take a look at this website:

Akhlah: The Hebrew Aleph-Bet - Learn Hebrew

There are links to how each of the letters sound.

Here are the links for the two letters we're talking about.

First: ה http://www.akhlah.com/soundfiles/aleph_bet/hey.mp3

Next: ח http://www.akhlah.com/soundfiles/aleph_bet/chet.mp3

Notice the difference between Hey and Chet?

The word in the verse is machamadim
The prophet's name is Mahammed (at least according to this pronounciation: http://inogolo.com/audio/Muhammad_3758.mp3)

Different sounds. Different letters. Different words.

As for the questions about Jesus... that probably belongs in a different thread.

 

[mohamad Gamal]

The Vav has always been a part of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. If the vav was not there prior to the 8th century, then the O sound you are looking for isn't there either.

actually the vowels were added to the language and in 2008 a stone was found by a Jewish archaeologist he said "The differentiation between the scripts, and between the languages themselves in that period, remains unclear" (quoting ) and calling it Hebrew is going too far knowing that the stone dated to around 3000 years ago so as i said the language was changed


2nd of all we write mohamad م which is equal to the sound meem then ح which gives a sound of haa (with and ending sound of the starting of the pronunciation of the A ) then another meem then د which gives a sound of dal



on these letters there are some marks that gives the letter a pacific sound for example the meem we put و over the letter to give it a mo sound (there is where the o sound comes from its not written as an او and we put a dash over the letter to give it and a sound example the meem will give the ma sound and a dash under it to give a me sound anyway in arabic we use the first one mentioned the one with the و anyway based on my first part the language was changed so its wrong to read it with the modern hebrew but without the ones i mentioned it will be read mhmd



which proves that ur modern reading is wrong but the rabbi in the link reads the old way thats why u said he is reading wrong while really u are the one making the mistake



as for poisonshady the letter ח according to Hebrew language, alphabet and pronunciation
which i think is a jewish site is either h or a ch so why do u focus on one and totally abandon the other i wonder why?????
and if u check the notes it says: het is officially pronounced [ħ], but many people pronounce it [x] see?
and Tiberian Hebrew from the 7th to 10th century (they dont know an exact timing) CE is sometimes called "Biblical Hebrew" because it is used to pronounce the Hebrew Bible; however properly it should be distinguished from the historical Biblical Hebrew of the 6th century BCE proof that the language was totally changed

and about the vowels did you know that tiberian Hebrew incorporates the remarkable scholarship of the Masoretes who added vowel points and grammar points to the Hebrew letters to preserve much earlier features of Hebrew (but did it work as they wanted i dont think so) so again the vowels were added and this is my proof

 

[Rakhel]

actually the vowels were added to the language and in 2008 a stone was found by a Jewish archaeologist he said "The differentiation between the scripts, and between the languages themselves in that period, remains unclear" (quoting ) and calling it Hebrew is going too far knowing that the stone dated to around 3000 years ago so as i said the language was changed


2nd of all we write mohamad م which is equal to the sound meem then ح which gives a sound of haa (with and ending sound of the starting of the pronunciation of the A ) then another meem then د which gives a sound of dal



on these letters there are some marks that gives the letter a pacific sound for example the meem we put و over the letter to give it a mo sound (there is where the o sound comes from its not written as an او and we put a dash over the letter to give it and a sound example the meem will give the ma sound and a dash under it to give a me sound anyway in arabic we use the first one mentioned the one with the و anyway based on my first part the language was changed so its wrong to read it with the modern hebrew but without the ones i mentioned it will be read mhmd



which proves that ur modern reading is wrong but the rabbi in the link reads the old way thats why u said he is reading wrong while really u are the one making the mistake



as for poisonshady the letter ח according to Hebrew language, alphabet and pronunciation
which i think is a jewish site is either h or a ch so why do u focus on one and totally abandon the other i wonder why?????
and if u check the notes it says: het is officially pronounced [ħ], but many people pronounce it [x] see?
and Tiberian Hebrew from the 7th to 10th century (they dont know an exact timing) CE is sometimes called "Biblical Hebrew" because it is used to pronounce the Hebrew Bible; however properly it should be distinguished from the historical Biblical Hebrew of the 6th century BCE proof that the language was totally changed

and about the vowels did you know that tiberian Hebrew incorporates the remarkable scholarship of the Masoretes who added vowel points and grammar points to the Hebrew letters to preserve much earlier features of Hebrew (but did it work as they wanted i dont think so) so again the vowels were added and this is my proof

I have already answered this. And I seriously feel like I am riding a merry-go-round with you that I would really like to get off.
The the Het spelling that you insist on is Chet. the sound is more of a guttural sound. It's kind of like the rolling "r" is Spanish, only the sound is different.
Further Omniglot is not a Jewish site. The site poisonshady pointed you to is a Jewish site that does understand Hebrew.
Why you are having a hard time understanding why we rely on Hebrew sites, I do not know
Why you keep insisting that the Jews are lying about their own language, I will never understand.
Why you keep insisting that his mother didn't just love him is beyond me.

 

[mohamad Gamal]

I have already answered this. And I seriously feel like I am riding a merry-go-round with you that I would really like to get off.
The the Het spelling that you insist on is Chet. the sound is more of a guttural sound. It's kind of like the rolling "r" is Spanish, only the sound is different.
Further Omniglot is not a Jewish site. The site poisonshady pointed you to is a Jewish site that does understand Hebrew.
Why you are having a hard time understanding why we rely on Hebrew sites, I do not know
Why you keep insisting that the Jews are lying about their own language, I will never understand.
Why you keep insisting that his mother didn't just love him is beyond me.

mmmmm i thought we already finished that point but again as i told you before if u want to leave then thank you very very much if u want to leave and let ur point of view remain unclear to me then there is nothing i can do to stop you is there the only thing i can do is to thank you and hope u will see things from my perspective one day when its not too late



furthermore i proved to you that ur language is not hebrew it is not the language that the bible was written in what more do you want u cant get a person who speaks arabic and tell him read hebrew nor can you bring a jew who speaks modern israel hebrew and tell him to read the old one


the reason i dont trust those sites as i made my self clear is that they have modern israel hebrew not the old hebrew


and i am not saying that ALL jews are lying about their language all i am saying is that their language was changed so its no wonder that if they read the old language they will make mistakes or totally mistake the meaning that those words have
and i didnt really catch that last sentence that says ""Why you keep insisting that his mother didn't just love him"" plz explain it


i answered ur questions now answer this why would the name of our prophet be in the bible or something close to it (though i just brought the whole modern hebrew language to its knees by proving it was changed ) in his holy book or so they say i will tell you why to guide you that gods promise shall become true that I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. who is he ??? who???? can u name him (knowing that jesus was speaking words of god too) no you cant but i can he is Mohamad PBH that is the truth that i have to give you and you are now free either believe me or to stop its ur choice

 

[Tarheeler]

Talk about déjà vu.

 

[Rakhel]

when you consider that the Arabic language had to create a letter to explain the Chet in Hebrew, it makes one wonder who's language is reaching