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The Supreme Court will decide if Donald Trump can be kept off 2024 presidential ballots

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Impeachment trials are political. They are not criminal. In fact even McConnell said that Trump should be tried in criminal court not a political one. That was his weak excuse for not voting guilty. And McConnell knows that Trump is a criminal.

As to that law it has free speech issues and that can tie it up in court forever. So Jack Smith charged him with the elements of insurrection that they could find him guilty of without running into those issues:

You said insurrection was not a crime. It sure is. Now you admit that Trump was not charged with insurrection.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Do you think Trump would be able to get acquitted by a jury of citizens?
Not in DC. But yes in most places.
Remember Jan 6 would never have happened if Trump didn’t lie about election fraud.
He questioned the election. Is he not allowed to do that?

That event, along with the fake electors in numerous states,
There is no such thing as fake electors, There are electors chosen from each party to represent the party to vote in each state. That is what the state elections are for.
and the conspiracy in Georgia, all happened because of Trump’s actions and claims.
What conspiracy? Trump asked to find votes, like many other politicians in the past? You guys have a special standard for Trump that you don't have for any other politician.
Yeah, some republicans voted to convict, but as we learned afterwards many were afraid of Trump’s insane base and voted to acquit. Romney explained how he had death threats due to his vote. But unlike other senators he could afford private security.

That’s your disturbed candidate causing all this chaos.
Nope, it is the lies of the dems and most of the media that are causing the strife. How many times does the media get caught lying about the news such as Russian collusion, lied about the whipping immigrants, getting it wrong about supreme court rulings about the border crisis and Abbott, CNN lied about Comeys testimony, Wash Post fact checker about Trump has been wrong many times, etc etc etc.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There is no such thing as fake electors, There are electors chosen from each party to represent the party to vote in each state. That is what the state elections are for.

Electors are chosen by the state legislatures, not by the parties. The parties only present a list of nominees.

Trump tried to have false electors certified in place of the real ones for a number of states that he lost.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Not in DC. But yes in most places.
Do you have a bias against citizens of DC? What makes them unique compared to the rest of the USA? Use facts.
He questioned the election. Is he not allowed to do that?
He is free to question and even lie. But when those lies coninue and aren't corrected, and it results in crimes, he is responsible.

The analysis is that the 2020 election was secure and fair, and had a correct outcome.
There is no such thing as fake electors,
Sorry, there are seven states that had fake electors.





Do you need more links referring to fake electors to convince you they are a real thing?
There are electors chosen from each party to represent the party to vote in each state. That is what the state elections are for.
There are a few states that split electros to reflect the popular vote, but the rest only send official state electors to be counted. Trump co-conspirators created fraudulent (fake) electors as an attempt to overturn the actual results of the election.
What conspiracy? Trump asked to find votes, like many other politicians in the past? You guys have a special standard for Trump that you don't have for any other politician.
Read the indictments. Trump asking for more votes that were not cast by voters suggests what to you? Honesty? No, Trump was aksing Georgia election officials to "find" 11780 votes. He lost by 11779 votes. Find more votes for him? Try coloring that in a way that doesn't cound corrupt and criminal.
Nope, it is the lies of the dems and most of the media that are causing the strife. How many times does the media get caught lying about the news such as Russian collusion, lied about the whipping immigrants, getting it wrong about supreme court rulings about the border crisis and Abbott, CNN lied about Comeys testimony, Wash Post fact checker about Trump has been wrong many times, etc etc etc.
Nice set of FOX propaganda that has no basis in fact. Does Trump have to shoot you on 5th Avenue before you realize the guy is a criminal?

Don't worry, he won't. He needs every vote he can get.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Also, Trump was acquitted of an insurrection charge by the senate after his impeachment in 2021.

The Senate Majority leader said this:

"There is no question that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day."

But stated that impeachment wasn't the avenue to take, and that:

"President Trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office, as an ordinary citizen, unless the statute of limitations has run, still liable for everything he did while in office, didn't get away with anything yet – yet.
We have a criminal justice system in this country. We have civil litigation. And former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one."

 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Again just assertions without evidence. Even if they are does that justify calling me depraved?
I do not play the wayback game when it comes to past corrections. You made a complaint and I explained how it was unwarranted. Your recent demands for proof regarding Trump demonstrates that you ignore uncomfortable facts. I didn't see her calling you depraved. But if she did by the history of both of you it was probably merited.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member





Of course, this was expected, but now they've finally announced that they will be hearing the case. Should be interesting.
The big problem for the Democrat Party, is nobody, including Trump has been indicted for insurrection. The rally cry of Insurrection is nothing but a Liberal propaganda mantra, similar to the fake charge of "Russian Collusion". Both were/are propaganda and media driven, and were repeated so much, the brain dead base now assumes this to be true.This illusion is being used in conjunction with their pay for hire DEI hacks/plants in the extended State level injustice departments. They were planted there to follow orders. They are there to interfere in the elections; quid pro quo, for a future in the corrupt Democrat party.

The Democrats cannot win a fair fight, especially with the poor performance of Biden. The lies and misdirect, to spin Biden's poor job performance, is not working. The polls stay negative for Biden. They now know that they need some form of drama and deception. This is always their best bet. This takes the spotlight off the poor performance, and all the issue that matter to the majority of voters. It come down to the bogeyman.

They also need to run out the clock, since these various fake changes will ultimately be over turned. If they are over turned, after the election, the Democrats may still end up in power, and can then deflect and purge evidence. If the Supreme Count votes, based on adult use of the law, this scam will fall short, much sooner than the Democrats would have hoped. I wonder what their backup scam will be. Will they go back to Russian spy? Their base will accept, whatever it is, hook, line and sinker? Will that be enough?

This continued corruption and perversion of justice is only giving Trump no choice, but to get even, with these criminals. The Democrat leaders complain about Trump threats against them, yet they keep on doubling down on their scams, and then use propaganda to pretend innocence and victimhood. The only thing such people know, is force. A brat child will keep being a bat, until dad sets down the law. Mother will accommodate for too long and the behavior gets engrained. Trump may have to apply some tough love and put the shoe on the other foot so the scum bags can empathize and learn. Now they do not have to learn or empathize for their actions.

What I would do is count every documented instance of the crooks misusing the injustice system and bureaucratic state; DOJ, FBI, IRS, EPA, etc. to attack and harass their political opponents. Trump gets to use the Government to go after the worse offenders, until it adds up to an equal number, plus 10%; dealer's choice. The extra 10% is for those on the original receiving end of the original crimes.

For example, how many times did the swamp send in the FBI to raid Conservatives including a Priest for protesting; violated his first amendment rights? Trump will get to pick and choose the worse scum bags and do onto the scum bags; dealer choice. President Biden will become citizen Biden, so Trump may start with him; ransack his homes. There are many of these crimes , left, for Pelosi, Schumer and Schiff. This needs be done as balanced justice, and not calculated criminal aggression like the originals.

To show how the Democrats are making it worse for themselves with their current criminal scams, right now Trump is claiming Presidential immunity. The short sighted Democrats want to loosen the immunity standard to get him. They are not thinking long term and what will happen to Biden and retired Democrats. if the Republican and Trump still win the election. Biden would become vulnerable, to all the extra Fentanyl deaths due to the open border. Biden was warned many times of the increase drug flow and consequences on citizens due to this open border policies. As a former President with no immunity; thanks Democrats, he will have to justify his behavior, or try to pass the buck to his DHS secretary Mayorkas; asked him to fall on his sword. As they did to others, it shall be done to them. Trump can only apply justice and not criminal aggression like the Democrats; real cases.

Once the dirt is even, it would need to stop and the nation can begin to heal. As long as the criminals in the Swamp led Government have no consequences, there will be lingering hurt feelings, for all their victims and the justice not served. The soft on crime policies of the Democrat in many state and cities, has led to increases in crime and civilian injuries. This may be used as a class action suit to indict a wide range of Democrat DEI middlemen for their crimes against US citizens; fire and sue. The Democrats have open endless possibilities for even US citizen justice.

If merciful, Trump may indict all these people, but he may also pardon many, if the amount of money needed for their self defense stings enough, to cut into their ill gotten fortunes; learn lessons of empathy and forgiveness. The Democrats have shown a way to fight the monster, using the monster's new weapons. Justice will be served and then we can shake hands and restore the Democracy.
 
Last edited:

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The big problem for the Democrat Party, is nobody, including Trump has been indicted for insurrection. The rally cry of Insurrection is nothing but a Liberal propaganda mantra, similar to the fake charge of "Russian Collusion". Both were/are propaganda and media driven, and were repeated so much, the brain dead base now assumes this to be true.This illusion is being used in conjunction with their pay for hire DEI hacks/plants in the extended State level injustice departments. They were planted there to follow orders. They are there to interfere in the elections; quid pro quo, for a future in the corrupt Democrat party.

The Democrats cannot win a fair fight, especially with the poor performance of Biden. The lies and misdirect, to spin Biden's poor job performance, is not working. The polls they negated for Biden. They now know that they need some form of drama and deception. This is always their best bet. This takes the spotlight off the poor performance and all the issue than matter to the majority of voters.

They also need to run out the clock, since these various fake changes will ultimately be over turned. If over turned, after the election they may end up in power and can then they can deflect and purge evidence. If the Supreme Count votes, based on adult use of the law, this scam will fall short, much sooner than the Democrats would have hoped. I wonder what their backup scam will be. Will they go back to Russian spy? Their base will accept, whatever it is, hook, line and sinker? Will that be enough?

This continued corruption and perversion of justice is only giving Trump have no choice, but to get even, with these criminals. The Democrat leaders complain about Trump threats against them, yet they keep on doubling down on their scams, and then use propaganda to pretend innocence and victimhood. The only thing such people know, is force. A brat child will keep being a bat, until dad sets down the law. Mother will accommodate for too long and the behavior gets engrained. Trump may have to apply some tough love and put the shoe on the other foot so the scum bags can empathize and learn. Now they do not have to learn or empathize for their actions.

What I would do is count every documented instance of the crooks misusing the injustice system and bureaucratic state; IRS, EPA, etc. to attack and harass their political opponents. Trump get to use the Government to go after the worse offenders, until it adds up to an equal number of times, plus 10%, The 10% is for those on the original receiving end of these crimes.

For example, how many times did the swamp send in the FBI to raid Conservatives including a Priest for protesting; violated his first amendment rights? Trump will get to pick and choose the worse scum bags and do onto the scum bags. President Biden will be citizen Biden, so Trump may start with him; ransack his homes.There are many more time, left, for Pelosi, Schumer and Schiff. If this is balanced this justice and not calculated criminal aggression like the originals.

To show how the Democrats are making it worse for themselves with their criminal scams, right now Trump is claiming Presidential immunity. The short sighted Democrats want to loosen the immunity standard to get him. They are not thinking long term and what will happen to Biden and Democrats if the Republican still win the election. Biden would become vulnerable, for example, to all the extra Fentanyl deaths due to the open border. Biden was warned many times of the increase drug flow and consequences due to this open border policies, and as a former President with no immunity, he will have to justify his behavior, or try to pass the buck to his DHS secretary Mayorkas; asked to fall on his sword. As they did to others, it shall be done to them. Trump can apply justice and not criminal aggression like the Democrats.

Once the dirt is even, it would need to stop and the nation can begin to heal. As long as the criminals in Swamp led Government have no consequences, there will be lingering hurt feelings, for all their victims and the justice not served. The soft on crime policies of the Democrat in many state and cities, has led to increases in crime and civilian injuries. This may be used to indict a wide range of Democrat DEI middlemen for their crimes against US citizens; fire them and then sue. The Democrats have open endless possibilities for justice.

If merciful, Trump may indict but he may also pardon, if the amount of money needed for their self defense stings enough cut into their ill gotten fortunes. The Democrat have shown a way to fight the monster, using the monster's own weapons. Justice will be served and then we shake hands and restore the Democracy.

Well, tomorrow is when the Supreme Court is scheduled to hear arguments on this case, and they'll probably also be asked to make a ruling on the DC Court of Appeals decision. I guess it's in the hands of lawyers and judges to decide the fate of the country.

I can hear a lot of loud, tough talk bandied about from different quarters.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The big problem for the Democrat Party, is nobody, including Trump has been indicted for insurrection.

So far, seven people have been convicted of seditious conspiracy.


Generally, "seditious conspiracy" involves the plotting or planning of an insurrection and "insurrection" involves actually carrying the insurrection out, but even then, the line is blurry:

Is sedition the same thing as insurrection?​

While they clearly overlap, “sedition” centers more on plotting and incitement, whereas “insurrection” is generally understood to mean the actual violent acts of an uprising aimed at overthrowing the government.


That said, the federal law against insurrection, Section 2383, slightly blurs that line. It says that “whoever incites, sets on foot, assists or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto” is guilty of that offense.
The rally cry of Insurrection is nothing but a Liberal propaganda mantra, similar to the fake charge of "Russian Collusion".

... but you remember how that worked out, right?

There was definitely Russian interference to help Trump get elected, but the Russians looked at Trump and realized that he was going to suit their aims with them having to nudge him in a different direction. Trump was a patsy for Russian interests without the Russians having to do anything.

Not quite the win you're painting it as.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Well, tomorrow is when the Supreme Court is scheduled to hear arguments on this case, and they'll probably also be asked to make a ruling on the DC Court of Appeals decision. I guess it's in the hands of lawyers and judges to decide the fate of the country.

I can hear a lot of loud, tough talk bandied about from different quarters.
PBS will be carrying audio of the proceedings tomorrow, February 8. Here is a link to the coverage if anyone wants to listen: LISTEN LIVE: Supreme Court hears case on whether Colorado can remove Trump from presidential ballot
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
The big problem for the Democrat Party, is nobody, including Trump has been indicted for insurrection. The rally cry of Insurrection is nothing but a Liberal propaganda mantra, similar to the fake charge of "Russian Collusion". Both were/are propaganda and media driven, and were repeated so much, the brain dead base now assumes this to be true.This illusion is being used in conjunction with their pay for hire DEI hacks/plants in the extended State level injustice departments. They were planted there to follow orders. They are there to interfere in the elections; quid pro quo, for a future in the corrupt Democrat party.

The Democrats cannot win a fair fight, especially with the poor performance of Biden. The lies and misdirect, to spin Biden's poor job performance, is not working. The polls stay negative for Biden. They now know that they need some form of drama and deception. This is always their best bet. This takes the spotlight off the poor performance, and all the issue that matter to the majority of voters. It come down to the bogeyman.

They also need to run out the clock, since these various fake changes will ultimately be over turned. If they are over turned, after the election, the Democrats may still end up in power, and can then deflect and purge evidence. If the Supreme Count votes, based on adult use of the law, this scam will fall short, much sooner than the Democrats would have hoped. I wonder what their backup scam will be. Will they go back to Russian spy? Their base will accept, whatever it is, hook, line and sinker? Will that be enough?

This continued corruption and perversion of justice is only giving Trump no choice, but to get even, with these criminals. The Democrat leaders complain about Trump threats against them, yet they keep on doubling down on their scams, and then use propaganda to pretend innocence and victimhood. The only thing such people know, is force. A brat child will keep being a bat, until dad sets down the law. Mother will accommodate for too long and the behavior gets engrained. Trump may have to apply some tough love and put the shoe on the other foot so the scum bags can empathize and learn. Now they do not have to learn or empathize for their actions.

What I would do is count every documented instance of the crooks misusing the injustice system and bureaucratic state; DOJ, FBI, IRS, EPA, etc. to attack and harass their political opponents. Trump gets to use the Government to go after the worse offenders, until it adds up to an equal number, plus 10%; dealer's choice. The extra 10% is for those on the original receiving end of the original crimes.

For example, how many times did the swamp send in the FBI to raid Conservatives including a Priest for protesting; violated his first amendment rights? Trump will get to pick and choose the worse scum bags and do onto the scum bags; dealer choice. President Biden will become citizen Biden, so Trump may start with him; ransack his homes. There are many of these crimes , left, for Pelosi, Schumer and Schiff. This needs be done as balanced justice, and not calculated criminal aggression like the originals.

To show how the Democrats are making it worse for themselves with their current criminal scams, right now Trump is claiming Presidential immunity. The short sighted Democrats want to loosen the immunity standard to get him. They are not thinking long term and what will happen to Biden and retired Democrats. if the Republican and Trump still win the election. Biden would become vulnerable, to all the extra Fentanyl deaths due to the open border. Biden was warned many times of the increase drug flow and consequences on citizens due to this open border policies. As a former President with no immunity; thanks Democrats, he will have to justify his behavior, or try to pass the buck to his DHS secretary Mayorkas; asked him to fall on his sword. As they did to others, it shall be done to them. Trump can only apply justice and not criminal aggression like the Democrats; real cases.

Once the dirt is even, it would need to stop and the nation can begin to heal. As long as the criminals in the Swamp led Government have no consequences, there will be lingering hurt feelings, for all their victims and the justice not served. The soft on crime policies of the Democrat in many state and cities, has led to increases in crime and civilian injuries. This may be used as a class action suit to indict a wide range of Democrat DEI middlemen for their crimes against US citizens; fire and sue. The Democrats have open endless possibilities for even US citizen justice.

If merciful, Trump may indict all these people, but he may also pardon many, if the amount of money needed for their self defense stings enough, to cut into their ill gotten fortunes; learn lessons of empathy and forgiveness. The Democrats have shown a way to fight the monster, using the monster's new weapons. Justice will be served and then we can shake hands and restore the Democracy.
I've never read such blatant psychological projection in all my life. Wow.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
So far, seven people have been convicted of seditious conspiracy.


Generally, "seditious conspiracy" involves the plotting or planning of an insurrection and "insurrection" involves actually carrying the insurrection out, but even then, the line is blurry:




... but you remember how that worked out, right?

There was definitely Russian interference to help Trump get elected, but the Russians looked at Trump and realized that he was going to suit their aims with them having to nudge him in a different direction. Trump was a patsy for Russian interests without the Russians having to do anything.

Not quite the win you're painting it as.
Makes one wonder if they have something on him (a honey trap seems to be the likely method for this.) I also wonder how many classified documents he gave to the dictators he praises so often: Putin, Xi, Kim Jong Un.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The big problem for the Democrat Party, is nobody, including Trump has been indicted for insurrection.
All we have to do is watch the videos and hear the audio recordings again. Trump lied about election fraud. He tried to pressure state officials to "find" him votes he didn't get. Many Trump followers believed him and committed crimes against the government and people of the United States of America.

Trump has plenty of other crimes to defend, do you really want more?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The Senate Majority leader said this:

"There is no question that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day."

But stated that impeachment wasn't the avenue to take, and that:

"President Trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office, as an ordinary citizen, unless the statute of limitations has run, still liable for everything he did while in office, didn't get away with anything yet – yet.
We have a criminal justice system in this country. We have civil litigation. And former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one."

Hmmm.....I'd like to see civil suits against him by all
who suffered losses resulting from the insurrection
& his incitement of violence against election officials
That could reach $billion.
I support wealth re-distribution in this case.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Do you have a bias against citizens of DC? What makes them unique compared to the rest of the USA? Use facts.
Biden got 92% of the vote in DC.
He is free to question and even lie. But when those lies coninue and aren't corrected, and it results in crimes, he is responsible.
He believes he won, what people do with that is not his responsibility. Just like HIllary believes she won.
The analysis is that the 2020 election was secure and fair, and had a correct outcome.
Ok
Sorry, there are seven states that had fake electors.





Do you need more links referring to fake electors to convince you they are a real thing?

There are a few states that split electros to reflect the popular vote, but the rest only send official state electors to be counted. Trump co-conspirators created fraudulent (fake) electors as an attempt to overturn the actual results of the election.
The constitution sets up how the electors are chosen, not the executive branch. There is no DOD or attorney general in the constitution. The constitution sets up a political process to choose electors. Each party is free to sent a slate of electors and the constitution says it is up to congress to decide which electors to choose. No one has ever been criminally prosecuted for this and it has been done many times in the past, Hawaii 1960, Ohio 2004 for example. Congress has the only say in what electors are chosen and that is what happened in 2021. A grand jury, prosecutor, attorney general, executive branch have no say in the process. This is because of what is happening to Trump. He is being criminally prosecuted by the opposition party for a political process. That leads to tyranny, in fact that is what we are seeing.
Read the indictments. Trump asking for more votes that were not cast by voters suggests what to you? Honesty? No, Trump was aksing Georgia election officials to "find" 11780 votes. He lost by 11779 votes. Find more votes for him? Try coloring that in a way that doesn't cound corrupt and criminal.

Nice set of FOX propaganda that has no basis in fact. Does Trump have to shoot you on 5th Avenue before you realize the guy is a criminal?
This is just more reading into Trump's statement as negatively as you can. No where did he say to anyone to do anything illegal. I bet you believe Trump told people to drink bleach. Here is the transcript, where did he ask for anyone to do anything illegal. He explained why he thought he had at least 11,780 votes legally cast that were not counted. He never asked anyone to create votes.

Don't worry, he won't. He needs every vote he can get.
Ok
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
The Senate Majority leader said this:

"There is no question that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day."

But stated that impeachment wasn't the avenue to take, and that:

"President Trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office, as an ordinary citizen, unless the statute of limitations has run, still liable for everything he did while in office, didn't get away with anything yet – yet.
We have a criminal justice system in this country. We have civil litigation. And former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one."

So he was never convicted or charged with insurrection. presidents need to have immunity after holding office. If not they cannot function in the office. This box may be opened and if it is we will see every ex president indicted by the opposition party. They will find a statute, just like all these prosecutors have done to Trump to charge them with. Is that healthy for democracy? If Trump wins he would be within his rights to have his DOJ charge Biden with crimes that illegal immigrants have committed because he did not enforce current border laws. Would that be ok?
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
I do not play the wayback game when it comes to past corrections. You made a complaint and I explained how it was unwarranted. Your recent demands for proof regarding Trump demonstrates that you ignore uncomfortable facts. I didn't see her calling you depraved. But if she did by the history of both of you it was probably merited.
Again, more accusations without you knowing the truth as you admitted. Pretty typical.
 
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