The Supreme Court will decide if Donald Trump can be kept off 2024 presidential ballots

[Callisto]

So he never did tell anyone to commit violence then. Nice cherry picking as well and ominous music.

You in denial isn't me "cherry picking". There are numerous individuals now in prison because he did tell them to commit violence and they've said as much. He knew they were armed and gloated that they weren't there to hurt him.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No there was violence that Trump never advocated for.

Looks like you haven't watched the January 6th hearings still.

Maybe you'll watch Trump's upcoming trial and inform yourself.

He wanted them to go protest patriotically and peaceably the fraudulent electoral votes from some states such as Pennsylvania etc. So they protest the results and they disperse peaceably. What is wrong with Trump advocating for that?

The only "fraudulent electoral votes" are the slates of fake electors Trump and his co-conspirators had set up across several different states to help them override democracy. Thankfully that didn't work and most of those people are now serving prison time.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This has been done for you many times already. Just a few of them are given in post #505.

Ok. He never said those things in post 505 either. "to go make sure I win".

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Once again, that is not what he advocated for. He only said "peacefully" once. He advocated violence multiple times. You either did not pay attention to or listen to his speech, and once again, people have done this for you many times. An honest interlocutor would have admitted that. I have seen you do better in the past. Why does Trump affect you this way?

He never said to commit violence. I have watched and read the speech many times. You are reading into his comments based on your belief he is evil. Many other in the past have said things like "fight like hell" and such not meaning violence. He told them to leave later on, You have a different standard for Trump.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok. He never said those things in post 505 either. "to go make sure I win".

He said words to that effect:

"We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."

"We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved."

"We will stop the steal."

He didn't explicitly call for violence, but he did call for something that would be effective at putting him back in the Oval Office.

He certainly didn't call for what you're claiming he did: a peaceful but ineffective protest and then everyone conceding and going home.

Edit: I've asked you once if you can come up with any scenario that accomplishes what Trump was asking for that doesn't involve crime or violence. You dodged. Care to actually tell us what you think Trump wanted the mob to do?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

That's not what he said he wanted, though.

He talked at length about how it would be wrong to concede and that they had to "stop the steal" and that they had to "get this right" (i.e. get the election outcome that Trump wanted) and that they're "not going to stand for that," "that" being "having someone in there [the White House] that should not be there."

I'm fine with you taking as generous an interpretation as you want that fits the facts, but it's not okay for you to ignore or misrepresent what Trump actually said.

Many politicians have used this language in the past not advocating for violence. He wanted them to protest peaceably, that is what he said.

 

[metis]

So, "We fight like hell..." isn't a call to violence, especially since Trump said to go march on the Capitol and he would meet them?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Many politicians have used this language in the past not advocating for violence.

No, not like this.

He wanted them to protest peaceably, that is what he said.

He used the word "peaceably" to cover his own ***, since the rest of the speech was a call to violence and lawlessness.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Do you notice that you say "the fraudulent electoral votes from some states such as Pennsylvania, etc.?" Can you show any evidence at all, in spite of all the court cases that determined that was not the case, for accepting that?

The US constitution says that the state legislatures are to determine presidential election laws. In PA, the courts and governor changed election laws just prior and during early voting, not the state legislature in violation of the US constitution. Article 2, section 1.

Indeed, can you provide any real evidence of any fraud in the 2020 election that had even the slightest chance of overturning the election? Or is this just something you "believe" because you were told to?

Whatever. See above.

 

[SkepticThinker]

He never said to commit violence. I have watched and read the speech many times. You are reading into his comments based on your belief he is evil. Many other in the past have said things like "fight like hell" and such not meaning violence. He told them to leave later on, You have a different standard for Trump.

Can you explain why, if Trump was not in favour of violence that day, why did he literally sit and do nothing but watch it unfold on TV for at least two hours, as everyone around him, including his children, were begging him to tweet something to the mob to call it off? Does that sound like the behaviour of someone who was against the violence or for it?

I know I've pointed this out to you before, so perhaps you'll recall that a couple of hours into the insurrection, when somebody finally convinced Trump to tweet something to the mob telling them to go home, guess what happened? They started dispersing and going home. As in, they do what he tells them. They hang on his every word, which is the reason they were there in the first place. "Stand back and stand by." That's what they did. On his word. All of it.

 

[fantome profane]

Many politicians have used this language in the past not advocating for violence. He wanted them to protest peaceably, that is what he said.

No, you can't claim that many politicians have claimed that the election was stolen by socialists, and that if you don't fight them you won't have a country anymore, not many politicians have told a violent gang to stand by.

Context matters.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So, "We fight like hell..." isn't a call to violence, especially since Trump said to go march on the Capitol and he would meet them?

It's certainly a call to something effective, which would have to mean some sort of coup. They certainly weren't talking about a "fight" in the courts, for instance.

To me, the question of whether he was calling for violence specifically comes down to whether he was calling for a bloodless coup or a violent coup. Either way, we're still talking about a coup.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The US constitution says that the state legislatures are to determine presidential election laws. In PA, the courts and governor changed election laws just prior and during early voting, not the state legislature in violation of the US constitution. Article 2, section 1.

Sounds like a reason to try a court challenge.

Doesn't sound like a reason to stage a coup.

Edit: if what you're saying were true of course (though it isn't).

 

[Subduction Zone]

He never said to commit violence. I have watched and read the speech many times. You are reading into his comments based on your belief he is evil. Many other in the past have said things like "fight like hell" and such not meaning violence. He told them to leave later on, You have a different standard for Trump.

Really? What do you think that he meant by "if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore" "you'll never take back our country with weakness" along with lies about how he did not lose the election and even worse, once the riot started he would not do anything to stop it.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Sounds like a reason to try a court challenge.

Doesn't sound like a reason to stage a coup.

Edit: if what you're saying were true of course (though it isn't).

How is it not true?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Really? What do you think that he meant by "if you don't fight like hell you won't have a country anymore" "you'll never take back our country with weakness" along with lies about how he did not lose the election and even worse,

Just like many other politicians that have used this language.

once the riot started he would not do anything to stop it.

This is untrue, he posted a video telling everyone to leave. This is his quote:

“We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt,”

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, you can't claim that many politicians have claimed that the election was stolen by socialists, and that if you don't fight them you won't have a country anymore, not many politicians have told a violent gang to stand by.

Context matters.

Hillary said the 2016 election was stolen from her. He was saying protest and fight as in keep protesting etc. Just like other politicians have done. Context matters. How can "fight" mean physical violence when he said to go peaceably?

 

[fantome profane]

Hillary said the 2016 election was stolen from her. He was saying protest and fight as in keep protesting etc. Just like other politicians have done. Context matters. How can "fight" mean physical violence when he said to go peaceably?

Because he convinced these people that the election was stolen, and that they were going to certify a false President. And they had to stop that. And if they didn't stop it they were not going to have a country any more.

Hillary Clinton never convinced anyone the election was stolen.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, not like this.



He used the word "peaceably" to cover his own ***, since the rest of the speech was a call to violence and lawlessness.

You have a different standard for Trump. He never meant for them to be violent. He said this:

“We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt"

You may claim he waited too long, but he said it and I believe meant it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have a different standard for Trump. He never meant for them to be violent. He said this:

“We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt"

You may claim he waited too long, but he said it and I believe meant it.

That was far too little and far too late. He knew that he lost at that time. Or are you going to claim that he was mentally ill as well. He had lost 60 lawsuits where judges that he appointed said there was no evidence. He was told by his own top aides that he lost. He should have been honest far earlier than that.