The Trinity

[katiemygirl]

You surely are a sister in Christ. Thank you for building me up and encouraging me in the Lord. I am so glad to meet you.

Same here Yes! It saddens me to see so many who reduce Jesus to a god, or one of many gods. How could anyone ever believe that a god could have the power to forgive sins? Only the one true God, Jesus Christ can. To Him be the glory forever!

 

[kjw47]

JWs insist that Jesus was created. They base this on Col 1:15 because the verse uses the word "firstborn," which in Greek is prototokos.

Yet, no Greek dictionary EVER defines the word as created.

If someone has an honest heart, they will do a word study on prototokos. They will look at the word in every verse it is used in and see how it is used.

The word firstborn (prototokos) will sometimes mean “first in physical birth order," but not always. It sometimes means preeminence or superiority. Colossians1:15 is saying that Jesus has preeminence or superiority over all of creation.

Colossians1:15 does not say that Jesus is a created being. Christ’s deity is well attested to in this chapter and throughout the Bible. If Jehovah’s Witnesses believe this verse is saying that Jesus is a created being, they must have a preconceived belief, or a taught one, because they cannot get this meaning from the text.

My teachers use the whole bible----

Proverbs 8( speaking about wisdom)-1Cor 1:30-Jesus is wisdom

Thus Jesus speaking to all at Prov 8:22---Produced( created directly--first and last) as the beginning of your way( creation) --prov goes on to say--- grew especially fond of me( Jesus)
thus Jesus = Gods master worker--all other things created--through Jesus( acts 2:22)


Proving this is true--not what trinity teachers teach

Let us( God and his master worker) create man in our image.

as well psalm 45:7--- Jesus speaking---Oiled me( Jesus) more than my partners( angels)

 

[katiemygirl]

Colossians 1:18 says Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. Does this mean he was the first created being to die a physical death?

You see, this is what happens when you don't study for yourself and do word studies. You end up accepting what others teach.

 

[kjw47]

Believe Jesus is God. Salvation depends upon it!

Actually this does--John 4:22-24( Jehovah)---the bottom line reality of all truth--handed to you by Jesus the one you claim to serve but refuse to listen to--HIM.

 

[kjw47]

Try explaining your beliefs.
You do not even address the scriptures I give, or answer the questions I ask.

I believe Jesus. I do not think you know him or the scriptures.

Guarantee------- Jesus teaches he has a God-his Father( Jehovah)---so does Paul--2Cor 1:3,, Peter- 1Peter 1:3--John at Rev 1:6------ many other spots--#1 teaching in the nt.

guarantee--today Jesus real teachers are 100% in agreement and teach that as well--Jesus has a God-his Father( Jehovah)

 

[Yes]

Guarantee------- Jesus teaches he has a God-his Father( Jehovah)---so does Paul--2Cor 1:3,, Peter- 1Peter 1:3--John at Rev 1:6------ many other spots--#1 teaching in the nt.

guarantee--today Jesus real teachers are 100% in agreement and teach that as well--Jesus has a God-his Father( Jehovah)

Jesus is God come as a Man in the flesh. God did not pretend to come as a Man; God really came as a Man.

 

[Yes]

Same here Yes! It saddens me to see so many who reduce Jesus to a god, or one of many gods. How could anyone ever believe that a god could have the power to forgive sins? Only the one true God, Jesus Christ can. To Him be the glory forever!

Amen!

 

[katiemygirl]

Guarantee------- Jesus teaches he has a God-his Father( Jehovah)---so does Paul--2Cor 1:3,, Peter- 1Peter 1:3--John at Rev 1:6------ many other spots--#1 teaching in the nt.

guarantee--today Jesus real teachers are 100% in agreement and teach that as well--Jesus has a God-his Father( Jehovah)

If by real teachers you mean the Watchtower Organization, I'm afraid you have been hoodwinked. Ever notice how God's word or His rules never change? The same cannot be said about the Watchtower publications. What was okay yesterday is a sin today. They, unlike God's words, are flip floppers. Who can trust a flip flopper?

 

[katiemygirl]

Actually this does--John 4:22-24( Jehovah)---the bottom line reality of all truth--handed to you by Jesus the one you claim to serve but refuse to listen to--HIM.

How about if you explain what John 4:22-24 is saying in its context?

 

[kjw47]

Your teachers are the problem! They are false teachers. The governing body of the JWs are not inspired men and never have been. All one needs to do is look at all of their flip flops to know they are false teachers. C'mon, how many times did they prophesy the end of the world and it never happened! Six was it? Those are just some of their flip flops. How can you ever trust these teachers?

Where in Proverbs 8:22 does it say Jesus is wisdom? It doesn't. This is an opinion and a very bad one. Think about what you are saying. Do you seriously believe God created wisdom?

1Cor 1:30--Jesus became wisdom.

 

[kjw47]

If by real teachers you mean the Watchtower Organization, I'm afraid you have been hoodwinked. Ever notice how God's word or His rules never change? The same cannot be said about the Watchtower publications. What was okay yesterday is a sin today. They, unlike God's words, are flip floppers. Who can trust a flip flopper?

Your own words condemn 99% of all religions claiming Christianity---because if you bothered to check these are undisputable 100% facts of Istraelite history

From Moses down to this day---- in every synagogue since day 1 of there inception--- this is the true allmight God served and taught for over 5000 years---YHWH*( Jehovah)-- a single being mono God--taught to Matt, Mark, luke john, peter, and Jesus while attending there for 30 years--not once ever refuting that teaching of God..

trinity god- councils of Catholicism---woe to these.

 

[Yes]

Same here Yes! It saddens me to see so many who reduce Jesus to a god, or one of many gods. How could anyone ever believe that a god could have the power to forgive sins? Only the one true God, Jesus Christ can. To Him be the glory forever!

Only God can forgive sins.

Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.

 

[Yes]

Your own words condemn 99% of all religions claiming Christianity---because if you bothered to check these are undisputable 100% facts of Istraelite history

From Moses down to this day---- in every synagogue since day 1 of there inception--- this is the true allmight God served and taught for over 5000 years---YHWH*( Jehovah)-- a single being mono God--taught to Matt, Mark, luke john, peter, and Jesus while attending there for 30 years--not once ever refuting that teaching of God..

trinity god- councils of Catholicism---woe to these.

God is One.

God is God.
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God

 

[Yes]

KJW47

"katiemygirl, post: 4079718, member: 29151"]

Your teachers are the problem! They are false teachers. The governing body of the JWs are not inspired men and never have been. All one needs to do is look at all of their flip flops to know they are false teachers. C'mon, how many times did they prophesy the end of the world and it never happened! Six was it? Those are just some of their flip flops. How can you ever trust these teachers?

Where in Proverbs 8:22 does it say Jesus is wisdom? It doesn't. This is an opinion and a very bad one. Think about what you are saying. Do you seriously believe God created wisdom?

I have asked you repeatedly to address Col. 1:15 and the meaning of prototokos/firstborn. Prove that it means created.

You need to start thinking for yourself. Pick up a Bible and read nothing but it. Clear your mind of prior teachings. Let the Holy Spirit teach you, not the Watchtower Organization!

I do believe that Jesus' body was created

I believe that Jesus is God with a body, and that Jesus' body was created. The body before coming to earth was created, and the body that came to earth was created.

Before creation---
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Jesus coming to earth in the body---

Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[Desert Snake]

God/Jesus=JHVH--> incarnates as Jesus the man. The only possible 'separation' here is the man aspect of Jesus.

 

[katiemygirl]

1Cor 1:30--Jesus became wisdom.

So based on 1Cor. 1:30, you are saying that Jesus is wisdom and God created wisdom?

Please look at the context of the verse. Who is Paul talking to? What message is he giving?

Please look at the context of 1 Corinthians 1:30 beginning at verse 18 through 31. Who is Paul writing to here? What is his message in these verses?

You are isolating one part of a verse claiming that Jesus became wisdom, meaning Jesus is wisdom and is therefore created. You are using this verse to prove that wisdom = Jesus in Proverbs 8:22.

First of all, Paul is writing to the church at Collosae. He is speaking to christians.

Here is what Paul is saying. To those who are lost, the message or word of the cross is foolish. To those who are being saved, it is the power of God.

Paul quotes God who says He will destroy the wisdom of the wise. Then Paul asks, "Hasn't God made the wisdom of the world foolish?"

Paul says that through their worldly wisdom, they didn't come to know God.
He says to those who are the called (the church, those who are being saved), we preach the power and wisdom of God.

Paul goes on to say that the foolishness of God (the message of the cross) is wiser than men (the wisdom of the world), and that God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. He did this so no man could boast.

The message of eternal salvation through the blood of Jesus (the message of the cross) is foolishness to the unbelieving world. They are spiritually blind.

Because of what Jesus did, believers are IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO BECAME WISDOM TO US FROM GOD, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption.

So how was it that Jesus became wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption to believers?

Was it not by His examples, His teachings, His death on the cross, His resurrection?

This passage in no way even hints that Jesus is wisdom. It says He became wisdom for those who believe in His message, to those who are IN CHRIST JESUS.

He became wisdom to those who cared to accept His teachings. He became wisdom to those who believe the message of the cross and foolishness to those who don't.

He not only became wisdom to believers, He ALSO became righteousness, sanctification and redemption. Did God create righteousness too? Aren't wisdom and righteousness both attributes of our eternal God? How can you say either was created?

Context is everything, my friend. Feel free to explain verses 18-31 in you own words.

I pray this helps.

 

[katiemygirl]

Only God can forgive sins.

Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.

The Jews knew and understood that only God can forgive sins.

 

[katiemygirl]

Your own words condemn 99% of all religions claiming Christianity---because if you bothered to check these are undisputable 100% facts of Istraelite history

From Moses down to this day---- in every synagogue since day 1 of there inception--- this is the true allmight God served and taught for over 5000 years---YHWH*( Jehovah)-- a single being mono God--taught to Matt, Mark, luke john, peter, and Jesus while attending there for 30 years--not once ever refuting that teaching of God..

trinity god- councils of Catholicism---woe to these.

Here is one area we can agree on. There are many denominations who claim to speak truth, but they do not. They are easily proven false with the Scriptures. And you are probably right when you say 99%. But then Jesus said narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

Thomas believed Jesus was God.

He called Jesus, My Lord and my God. Looking at your own Kingdom Interlinear, it correctly reads:

"In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"

The KIT correctly shows under the Greek:

"Answered Thomas and he said to him The Lord of me and the God of me!"

Would you deny your own Kingdom Interlinear?

 

[kjw47]

God is One.

God is God.
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God

Ask your teachers--how come my post was 100% facts of history--in catholicisms own encyclopedia it states--- The formulation--one god in three persons-- was not solidly established , not fully assimilated into the Christian life, prior to the end of the 4th century--new catholic encyclopedia( 1967)volume XIV-- page-299

oh after the councils headed by a pagan false god worshipping king. That explains the trinity. Fact--not a single servant served a trinity in the ot and through Jesus first 30 years-- where he kept attending a religion teaching a false god--- I seriously doubt it. --LOOK

 

[Yes]

Ask your teachers--how come my post was 100% facts of history--in catholicisms own encyclopedia it states--- The formulation--one god in three persons-- was not solidly established , not fully assimilated into the Christian life, prior to the end of the 4th century--new catholic encyclopedia( 1967)volume XIV-- page-299

oh after the councils headed by a pagan false god worshipping king. That explains the trinity. Fact--not a single servant served a trinity in the ot and through Jesus first 30 years-- where he kept attending a religion teaching a false god--- I seriously doubt it. --LOOK

I am not a trinitarian.
Trinitarians says Jesus is God, but they also say Jesus is not the Father.
They make three different gods.