The Trinity

[Mark2020]

Why? Because of your Theological presumption? This is why I asked you if you knew what the article was for in the first place.

Just give your argument.
Don't reply with a question.

 

[Muffled]

10;34 puts it into context better.

fact is the yeshua charactor talked in parables and metaphors but you choose to read this literally because it suits you.

the person who wrote that scripture never knew or met yeshua or heard a word pass the mans lips
.

I suppose you can say this because You were an eyewitness.

 

[Muffled]

Did you forget the previous verse at John 10v29 ?
My Father is greater than all.....

The Father is greater.....John 14v28

Acts [12v22; 28v6 B] has the letter 'a' before the word god.
The same Greek grammar rule applies at John [10v33 B]
Who did the Jesus conclude Jesus was at John [10v36 B] ?_____________

What is your point? Jesus by asserting that He is one with the Father asserts His authority which is the answer to the Pharisees question of whether He is the Messiah.

So what are you saying? That the Pharisees thought of the Father as a god? Did they believe that the one who is greater than all was just a god?

 

[Muffled]

[youtube]MlnnWbkMlbg[/youtube]
3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 1) - YouTube

All of that is pure speculation. It is a made up story as most archeologist do. They look at a stone and tell you what the person had for breakfast. There is a great leap of imagination between the stone and the story.

I call Jehovah "God." However that doesn't mean that there is any relationship between the English word and the Hebrew name. However "God" becomes cultural usage for Jehovah even though there is no relationship.

The same is true for "elohim." If it was a term that was used for "God" before God gave His name to Moses, that does not mean that it was a different God. Just as I would not construe "God" and Jehovah as different gods.

 

[Renji]

All of that is pure speculation. It is a made up story as most archeologist do. They look at a stone and tell you what the person had for breakfast. There is a great leap of imagination between the stone and the story.

You mean some historical artifacts, age of a particular fossil traced through carbon dating or substances that can be traced in a particular object are just products of fairy tales/ made up stories?

 

[outhouse]

All of that is pure speculation. It is a made up story as most archeologist do. They look at a stone and tell you what the person had for breakfast. There is a great leap of imagination between the stone and the story.

I call Jehovah "God." However that doesn't mean that there is any relationship between the English word and the Hebrew name. However "God" becomes cultural usage for Jehovah even though there is no relationship.

The same is true for "elohim." If it was a term that was used for "God" before God gave His name to Moses, that does not mean that it was a different God. Just as I would not construe "God" and Jehovah as different gods.

Thanks for the vid bump.

now when you discount the vid you will have to be specific because there are parts not up for debate and no historian or scholar will discount it.

has little to do with archeologist and their findings.

I understand why you dont like valid history and I wish it was different but its not.

 

[outhouse]

I suppose you can say this because You were an eyewitness.

can you say the opposite because you were?

 

[FreeTHinker4eva]

the oldest text in the bible are roughly 3000 year old.
Tom, writing has been around for 6000 years
the word god started in the 6th century Tom
there have been many deities before him

Agree in that primitive Man began by worshiping 'Ghosts' of their ancestors then on to "a rock(s)"-[stone henge comes to mind also-noone yet has figured out the definitive reason for Stonehenge-or how those stones were placed there..
Huge depictions of primiitve "gods" carved in stone on an Island remain to this day-
Also widely ritualized practices of worship- To illustrate; it took Moses years to move man away from idol worship[golden calf] and more time to move early man away from using humans as a sacrificial offering to appease "God"[Elohim]-

To me God as existent becomes probable as every human has this inherent drive hard wired within them to seek for 'other' including Atheists who conclude differently than I do yet like me also went through this hard wired inherent investigative process.
The fact we can formulate a question about other[God] proves other[God]...no animal ponders a waterfall and concludes-beautiful. Nor does an animal conclude illness is a demon, yet man concluded thusly well into the 18th 19th centuries-illustration: bathing was seen as causing illness..truth stranger than fiction..:rainbow1:

 

[outhouse]

Agree in that primitive Man began by worshiping 'Ghosts' of their ancestors then on to "a rock(s)"-[stone henge comes to mind also-noone yet has figured out the definitive reason for Stonehenge-or how those stones were placed there..
Huge depictions of primiitve "gods" carved in stone on an Island remain to this day-
Also widely ritualized practices of worship- To illustrate; it took Moses years to move man away from idol worship[golden calf] and more time to move early man away from using humans as a sacrificial offering to appease "God"[Elohim]-

To me God as existent becomes probable as every human has this inherent drive hard wired within them to seek for 'other' including Atheists who conclude differently than I do yet like me also went through this hard wired inherent investigative process.
The fact we can formulate a question about other[God] proves other[God]...no animal ponders a waterfall and concludes-beautiful. Nor does an animal conclude illness is a demon, yet man concluded thusly well into the 18th 19th centuries-illustration: bathing was seen as causing illness..truth stranger than fiction..:rainbow1:

that would all be great and dandy if it had anything at all to do with the trinity

 

[FreeTHinker4eva]

that would all be great and dandy if it had anything at all to do with the trinity

yeah I just realized what thread I posted this in-HA! my bad!! geesh...Big OOPS Don't know where I thought I was lol
oh yeah I responded to that post totally out of context-hehehee

 

[outhouse]

yeah I just realized what thread I posted this in-HA! my bad!! geesh...Big OOPS Don't know where I thought I was lol
oh yeah I responded to that post totally out of context-hehehee

Its all good

despite arguements and difference of opinions, were all brothers and sisters here.

 

[cablescavenger]

1+1+1=1? or 1+1+1=3 or 1+1+1= something else?

Why not just become nontrinitarianist and save yourself the math. :bow:

 

[Peace5366]

I'm a Christian and even I'm confused by this. St. Patrick tried to explain it with a clover but still.

 

[outhouse]

I'm a Christian and even I'm confused by this. St. Patrick tried to explain it with a clover but still.

It really is what planted the seed of atheism within me lol

when i was a small child and someone explained it to me there was confusion and not one could answer my questions properly.

It was like a cloud that hung over my faith for almost 4 decades afterwards

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm a Christian and even I'm confused by this. St. Patrick tried to explain it with a clover but still.

Besides a clover some use an egg illustration as in shell, white and yoke.
Neither however is reasoning on Scripture.

By the time John wrote Revelation Jesus was already long time resurrected to heaven.
The heavenly resurrected Jesus still considered himself to be the Son of God [Rev 2v18]
and Son Jesus still thinks he has a God over him [3v12]
and Revelation [3v21] mentions more than one throne.

Besides all of the above showing the heavenly Jesus as still being Son and having a God over him, at [3v14 B] Jesus still considers himself to have been the beginning of the creation by God.

God [according to Psalm 90v2] is not created and had no beginning.
Whereas Jesus had a start or a beginning.
Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It really is what planted the seed of atheism within me lol
when i was a small child and someone explained it to me there was confusion and not one could answer my questions properly.
It was like a cloud that hung over my faith for almost 4 decades afterwards

I was told take one of the petals away from the clover and you no longer have a cloverleaf flower. Does that make the Bible wrong, or the person teaching the Bible by not using the Bible as being wrong ?

Whether while on earth, or the heavenly resurrected Jesus, Jesus never put himself as being Creator. Jesus always acknowledged having a God over him [Rev 3v12] and always considers himself as Son of God.[2v18]

By the time Jesus reached heaven [Heb 9v24], if Jesus was not still 'Son' wouldn't he drop the idea of still being Son and still having a God over him?

 

[outhouse]

Does that make the Bible wrong, or the person teaching the Bible by not using the Bible as being wrong ?

No becuse the trinity is not taught in the pages of the bible at all.

if Jesus was not still 'Son' wouldn't he drop the idea of still being Son and still having a God over him?

I believe jesus used the term "son" as a devote follower.

if he had really been god, it would have been known and he would have been written about during his lifetime not after.

because the legends grew and were not even written until 30 years after his death and material edited and sorted for content, im sure we lost much of what the real man was really about.

 

[FreeTHinker4eva]

I was told take one of the petals away from the clover and you no longer have a cloverleaf flower. Does that make the Bible wrong, or the person teaching the Bible by not using the Bible as being wrong ?

Whether while on earth, or the heavenly resurrected Jesus, Jesus never put himself as being Creator. Jesus always acknowledged having a God over him [Rev 3v12] and always considers himself as Son of God.[2v18]

By the time Jesus reached heaven [Heb 9v24], if Jesus was not still 'Son' wouldn't he drop the idea of still being Son and still having a God over him?

God as the All in All-no beginning, no end, always was, always will be...And the Word was with God ...Christ as Eternal Son always with God as always come out from God-yet Jesus is never God as Eternal Father.-These concepts encompass some of our highest human truths[thus far] regarding Divinity, Divine Love, matters of Spiritual Truth[Holy Spirit].

Interesting, I first learned of Trinity Doctrine as a child yet the effect on me was the opposite of yours-I intuitively worshiped God, spoke/communed with Jesus, receive discernment from the Holy Spirit of Truth.

I grasped the Trinity concept this way: I know myself as [I Am] Mother, Daughter, Sister, Aunt, Children's Advocate. To each of these roles I am fully incarnate as that Title. As Mother my children will always see me through the perception, the experiences of me as their mother. Same for Daughter I am always my mother's child, my father's daughter they see me in this way only.

Same with Profession unless I tell them otherwise they do not see me as a mother or a sister or an Aunt, They understand I am these also, they believe this about me too, yet their only experience of me is that of me as their Children's Advocate.. Fully present as all of me to all of them- yet in truth I am more than the sum of my roles to each of these persons. AS is God-how much more so-(infinity times 1!)= [inside joke].

I am more than a mother sister, etc., I am also m-e quite apart from these personages if you will. Yet no-one argues against my existence as any of these roles, as standing before them as all of these within one.

After this manner then, is God the All in ALL as fully incarnate in Christ as The Son-Eternally-God and Eternal Son, also as Holy Spirit, yet monotheistic right in front of me and also in concept.
To each entity God is How they see God, yet God is also more than the sum of these personages beliefs, existence(s).
We are all more than the sum of our 'parts'. Including God :candle:.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God as the All in All-no beginning, no end, always was, always will be...And the Word was with God ...Christ as Eternal Son always with God as always come out from God-yet Jesus is never God as Eternal Father.-These concepts encompass some of our highest human truths[thus far] regarding Divinity, Divine Love, matters of Spiritual Truth[Holy Spirit].
Interesting, I first learned of Trinity Doctrine as a child yet the effect on me was the opposite of yours-I intuitively worshiped God, spoke/communed with Jesus, receive discernment from the Holy Spirit of Truth.
I grasped the Trinity concept this way: I know myself as [I Am] Mother, Daughter, Sister, Aunt, Children's Advocate. To each of these roles I am fully incarnate as that Title. As Mother my children will always see me through the perception, the experiences of me as their mother. Same for Daughter I am always my mother's child, my father's daughter they see me in this way only.
Same with Profession unless I tell them otherwise they do not see me as a mother or a sister or an Aunt, They understand I am these also, they believe this about me too, yet their only experience of me is that of me as their Children's Advocate.. Fully present as all of me to all of them- yet in truth I am more than the sum of my roles to each of these persons. AS is God-how much more so-(infinity times 1!)= [inside joke].
I am more than a mother sister, etc., I am also m-e quite apart from these personages if you will. Yet no-one argues against my existence as any of these roles, as standing before them as all of these within one.
After this manner then, is God the All in ALL as fully incarnate in Christ as The Son-Eternally-God and Eternal Son, also as Holy Spirit, yet monotheistic right in front of me and also in concept.
To each entity God is How they see God, yet God is also more than the sum of these personages beliefs, existence(s).
We are all more than the sum of our 'parts'. Including God :candle:.

Yes, according to Psalm 90v2 God is from everlasting meaning No beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
What does Revelation [3v14 B] say about Jesus ?
Jesus was Not 'with' God before the beginning. Rather at the beginning.

Yes Jesus is never God as Eternal Father because Jesus becomes eternal or everlasting father [Isaiah 9v6] because Jesus is given the keys to unlock the grave [Rev 1v8]. That means because Jesus resurrects Jesus becomes 'life giver' [father] to the resurrected dead gaining everlasting life thru Jesus.

 

[Shermana]

spoke/communed with Jesus, receive discernment from the Holy Spirit of Truth.

You heard back from Jesus? How do you know the Holy Spirit gave you discernment?