The Trinity

[katiemygirl]

The Bible contains neither the word nor the idea of a "trinity". Trinities of gods are common in pagan religions, however.

The word trinity is not found in Scripture, but the concept is there. We see it right off in Gen. 1:2, 26. The Spirit of God is hovering over the waters. God and His Spirit are two different entities. In verse 26, God says, "Let US make man in our image." In Genesis 1, we read about the creator, God. In John 1, we're told that the word was with God in the beginning, and all things came into being by Him. We're told in verse 14 that the word became flesh. There is no reason to think the word is none other than Jesus.

In Col. 1:15-16, we are told that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and that all things were created by Him and for Him.

In Phil. 2:5-8, we read,
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

One would have to completely disregard Scriptures to not see that there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are the one true God.

God is eternal. He was there long before pagans were. I would say the pagans were the imitators, not the other way around.

Blessings,

Katie

 

[rusra02]

The word trinity is not found in Scripture, but the concept is there. We see it right off in Gen. 1:2, 26. The Spirit of God is hovering over the waters. God and His Spirit are two different entities. In verse 26, God says, "Let US make man in our image." In Genesis 1, we read about the creator, God. In John 1, we're told that the word was with God in the beginning, and all things came into being by Him. We're told in verse 14 that the word became flesh. There is no reason to think the word is none other than Jesus.

In Col. 1:15-16, we are told that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and that all things were created by Him and for Him.

In Phil. 2:5-8, we read,
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

One would have to completely disregard Scriptures to not see that there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are the one true God.

God is eternal. He was there long before pagans were. I would say the pagans were the imitators, not the other way around.

Blessings,

Katie

I agree the Word is Jesus Christ. But notice that he was with God in the beginning. God has no beginning, but the Word did. It was to his Son that he spoke the words in Genesis 1:26, since as Colossians 1:16 reveals; "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." God shared with his Son the privilege to serve beside him as a master worker.
I believe Philippians 2:5,6 is inaccurately translated in the quote you reference in your post. The KJV renders verse 6: "Who, being in the form of God [not God], thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Other translations render verse 6; "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."
And God's spirit is not something separate from God. Far from teaching that Jesus and God are one person, Jesus stated; "Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17,18) Two separate persons are shown to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ; Jesus himself and the One who sent him, the Father, who supported Jesus by empowering him to perform miracles. (Acts 10:38)

 

[sojourner]

I agree the Word is Jesus Christ. But notice that he was with God in the beginning. God has no beginning, but the Word did. It was to his Son that he spoke the words in Genesis 1:26, since as Colossians 1:16 reveals; "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." God shared with his Son the privilege to serve beside him as a master worker.
I believe Philippians 2:5,6 is inaccurately translated in the quote you reference in your post. The KJV renders verse 6: "Who, being in the form of God [not God], thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Other translations render verse 6; "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."
And God's spirit is not something separate from God. Far from teaching that Jesus and God are one person, Jesus stated; "Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17,18) Two separate persons are shown to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ; Jesus himself and the One who sent him, the Father, who supported Jesus by empowering him to perform miracles. (Acts 10:38)

Your nitpicking terms. It's obvious that Philippians ascribes deity to Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

What you believe and what is true are two separate things.:yes:

I believe that which can be proven to be true which is not the case with JW's who simply believe something because some stupid leader taught it as truth.

 

[Muffled]

I agree the Word is Jesus Christ. But notice that he was with God in the beginning. God has no beginning, but the Word did. It was to his Son that he spoke the words in Genesis 1:26, since as Colossians 1:16 reveals; "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." God shared with his Son the privilege to serve beside him as a master worker.
I believe Philippians 2:5,6 is inaccurately translated in the quote you reference in your post. The KJV renders verse 6: "Who, being in the form of God [not God], thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Other translations render verse 6; "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."
And God's spirit is not something separate from God. Far from teaching that Jesus and God are one person, Jesus stated; "Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17,18) Two separate persons are shown to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ; Jesus himself and the One who sent him, the Father, who supported Jesus by empowering him to perform miracles. (Acts 10:38)

I believe that is not stated that the word has a beginning so your argument does not work.

 

[allright]

I believe that is not stated that the word has a beginning so your argument does not work.

 

[allright]

"The Lord our God is one"

The word God is plural in the Hebrew as it is all over the Old Testament

The Hebrew word translated one is the same word used in "the two become one flesh". It refers to unity.

The correct translation should be "The Lord our Gods are perfectly united as one"

Three individual eternal beings existing in perfect agreement

 

[Muffled]

"The Lord our God is one"

The word God is plural in the Hebrew as it is all over the Old Testament

The Hebrew word translated one is the same word used in "the two become one flesh". It refers to unity.

The correct translation should be "The Lord our Gods are perfectly united as one"

Three individual eternal beings existing in perfect agreement

I believe one always means one and never two or three.

 

[Ouroboros]

1+1+1=1? or 1+1+1=3 or 1+1+1= something else?

1*1*1=1 or 0+0+0=0 (3 zeros still make 1 zero )

 

[allright]

I believe one always means one and never two or three.

Right so become one flesh means their two bodies morph into one body

2 Samuel 2:25 the men of Benjamin became one

Are you for real

 

[rusra02]

I believe that is not stated that the word has a beginning so your argument does not work.

Revelation. 3:14 reveals the Son did have a beginning : "To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God." Colossians 1:15 says regarding Jesus Christ; " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

 

[Christ's Prophet]

I believe this sounds nice but it does not satisfy what scripture says. in John 14:16 Jesus says He will send another comforter. If it were just a matter of God's spirit existing in all things then Jesus would not have to do any sending. However if the Spirit indwelling a person is a different state than just exsting in Him then only those who invite God to indwell them will have God present as Lord of the Body.

I can see that you are still trying to get your head around this concept. It is a good thing to wrestle with. You have mentioned John 14:16.
John 14:16:- And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jesus is saying to His disciples that He will send another Comforter after His departure. The key word here is ‘another’ which in the Greek is the word is ‘al’los’ (Greek ἄλλος Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.) This word also mean another of exactly of the same type of person as the primary. In other words, if Jesus is a person, then the Holy Spirit is a person, if Jesus has a personality, then the Holy Spirit has a personality. If Jesus is God, then the Holy Spirit is God and the same as Jesus. It gives the connotation of a lawyer coming before a court of law, and that lawyer summoning another lawyer of the same rank and status, to take over from him.
But I don’t think this is exactly what you are talking about.
Perhaps you should consider these Scriptures:
1st Example:- Acts 17:27-28 (KJV) 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
2nd Example: Romans 8:10-11 (KJV) 10 And if Christ be IN you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
3rdExample2 I think I remember saying in my last blog, that you must have Jesus Christ/the Spirit of God in you to be saved. Well here is one Scripture for you. Corinthians 13:5-6 (ESV) 5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.
You have also said: However if the Spirit indwelling a person is a different state than just exsting in Him then only those who invite God to indwell them will have God present as Lord of the Body.
Yes indeed, you have touched on the reality of the situation. All the unsaved people in the world only exist by the grace and mercy of God. (From memory) Christ says that He is not willing that any should perish and that all should come to repentance, and again, that if a person calls out to Christ for salvation, Christ will come and make His home with him, and he with Christ. Thank you for a good conversation, may the blessed Holy Spirit minister to you and reveal to you all things. Christ’s Prophet, Certainty for eternity.

 

[Muffled]

Right so become one flesh means their two bodies morph into one body

2 Samuel 2:25 the men of Benjamin became one

Are you for real

I suppose you have never heard of children?

25 ¶ And the children of Benjamin gathered themselves together after Abner, and became one troop, and stood on the top of an hill.

I beleive "one troop " not "one."

 

[Muffled]

Revelation. 3:14 reveals the Son did have a beginning : "To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God." Colossians 1:15 says regarding Jesus Christ; " He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

I believe you interpretation is incorrect. This does not say that Jesus has a beginning but that he is the beginning ie that which causes the beginning because there wouldn't be one without Him.

I believe the temporal part of Jesus has a beginning and the Soirit of God residing in Him is eternal.

 

[Muffled]

I can see that you are still trying to get your head around this concept. It is a good thing to wrestle with. You have mentioned John 14:16.
John 14:16:- And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jesus is saying to His disciples that He will send another Comforter after His departure. The key word here is ‘another’ which in the Greek is the word is ‘al’los’ (Greek ἄλλος Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.) This word also mean another of exactly of the same type of person as the primary. In other words, if Jesus is a person, then the Holy Spirit is a person, if Jesus has a personality, then the Holy Spirit has a personality. If Jesus is God, then the Holy Spirit is God and the same as Jesus. It gives the connotation of a lawyer coming before a court of law, and that lawyer summoning another lawyer of the same rank and status, to take over from him.
But I don’t think this is exactly what you are talking about.
Perhaps you should consider these Scriptures:
1st Example:- Acts 17:27-28 (KJV) 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
2nd Example: Romans 8:10-11 (KJV) 10 And if Christ be IN you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
3rdExample2 I think I remember saying in my last blog, that you must have Jesus Christ/the Spirit of God in you to be saved. Well here is one Scripture for you. Corinthians 13:5-6 (ESV) 5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.
You have also said: However if the Spirit indwelling a person is a different state than just exsting in Him then only those who invite God to indwell them will have God present as Lord of the Body.
Yes indeed, you have touched on the reality of the situation. All the unsaved people in the world only exist by the grace and mercy of God. (From memory) Christ says that He is not willing that any should perish and that all should come to repentance, and again, that if a person calls out to Christ for salvation, Christ will come and make His home with him, and he with Christ. Thank you for a good conversation, may the blessed Holy Spirit minister to you and reveal to you all things. Christ’s Prophet, Certainty for eternity.

If it is exactly the same then it is exactly the same person and personality which is what the scriptural context supports.

Happy Nativity and blessed New Year to you and yours.

 

[moorea944]

The trinity is not in our bible, Jesus is not God. People bring their beliefs into the bible. Trintiy started around 324AD with Consintine and the Bishops of the Western Empire. Trinity is false doctrine and totally degrades our Creator. And I can prove it. God is the God of Jesus. God is the Father of Jesus. God is greater than Jesus. Very simple!!!

 

[rusra02]

I believe you interpretation is incorrect. This does not say that Jesus has a beginning but that he is the beginning ie that which causes the beginning because there wouldn't be one without Him.

I believe the temporal part of Jesus has a beginning and the Soirit of God residing in Him is eternal.

A firstborn is the oldest child in the family. Thus, I believe Jesus did have a beginning, a birth as it were, as God's only begotten Son. (John 3:16) if you are the beginning of something, you are part of it. As Rev. 3:14 says, he was "the beginning of the creation by God."

 

[Yes]

1+1+1=1? or 1+1+1=3 or 1+1+1= something else?

The trinity doctrine is not accurate.
The trinity doctrine says there are three and that the three are different.
There are three, but the three are One and the same.

 

[katiemygirl]

I agree the Word is Jesus Christ. But notice that he was with God in the beginning. God has no beginning, but the Word did. It was to his Son that he spoke the words in Genesis 1:26, since as Colossians 1:16 reveals; "because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him." God shared with his Son the privilege to serve beside him as a master worker.
I believe Philippians 2:5,6 is inaccurately translated in the quote you reference in your post. The KJV renders verse 6: "Who, being in the form of God [not God], thought it not robbery to be equal with God." Other translations render verse 6; "who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."
And God's spirit is not something separate from God. Far from teaching that Jesus and God are one person, Jesus stated; "Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17,18) Two separate persons are shown to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ; Jesus himself and the One who sent him, the Father, who supported Jesus by empowering him to perform miracles. (Acts 10:38)

Jesus had no beginning! There is no Scripture that says He had a beginning. He was there in the beginning.

"In the beginning WAS the Word. The Word WAS with God. The Word WAS God (John 1:1).

A thorough, unbiased study of the verse in Greek is needed.

John 1:1 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeoV hn o logoV

The form of the verb EIMI ("to be") here is HN ("WAS"). It is in the "imperfect" tense. The imperfect bears the sense of "continuous or linear existence in past time." The use of this tense is significant. It tells us that in the time period in question ("The Beginning"), the Logos was in continuous existence. That is, there is no hint of His coming INTO existence in this time period.

When John uses this tense in the context of "the Beginning," He is teaching that the Logos pre-existed all creation. This is the force of the imperfect form of EIMI. There is no hint in John's language that the Logos was created. John could easily have used a form of the verb EGENTO ("to become") as he does in verse 14, had he wished to do so. Instead, he consciously echoes the language of Genesis 1:1, and places the Logos in that same creation event. But, while EN ARXEi EGENTO hO LOGOS would teach without question that the Logos came to be in the beginning, what John actually wrote - EN ARXEi HN hO LOGOS - teaches that the Logos was already there.

If you truly care about truth, then I would suggest you contact a Greek language expert, one who is not biased, one who will not tell you what you want to hear, but one who will speak the truth to the best of his/her ability.

Blessings,

Katie

 

[kjw47]

Jesus had no beginning! There is no Scripture that says He had a beginning. He was there in the beginning.

"In the beginning WAS the Word. The Word WAS with God. The Word WAS God (John 1:1).

A thorough, unbiased study of the verse in Greek is needed.

John 1:1 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeoV hn o logoV

The form of the verb EIMI ("to be") here is HN ("WAS"). It is in the "imperfect" tense. The imperfect bears the sense of "continuous or linear existence in past time." The use of this tense is significant. It tells us that in the time period in question ("The Beginning"), the Logos was in continuous existence. That is, there is no hint of His coming INTO existence in this time period.

When John uses this tense in the context of "the Beginning," He is teaching that the Logos pre-existed all creation. This is the force of the imperfect form of EIMI. There is no hint in John's language that the Logos was created. John could easily have used a form of the verb EGENTO ("to become") as he does in verse 14, had he wished to do so. Instead, he consciously echoes the language of Genesis 1:1, and places the Logos in that same creation event. But, while EN ARXEi EGENTO hO LOGOS would teach without question that the Logos came to be in the beginning, what John actually wrote - EN ARXEi HN hO LOGOS - teaches that the Logos was already there.

If you truly care about truth, then I would suggest you contact a Greek language expert, one who is not biased, one who will not tell you what you want to hear, but one who will speak the truth to the best of his/her ability.

Blessings,

Katie

Collosians 1:15--- the--FIRSTBORN--of all-- CREATION--= created.

Prov 8 talking about Jesus= wisdom) 1Cor 1:30) 8:22--- produced me( Jesus) = created--as the beginning( creation) of your ways--- also prov goes on--- grew especially fond of me(Jesus)

as well Psalm 45:7--- talking about Jesus--- oiled Me( Jesus) more than my partners( angels)

So yes Gods word is clear--Jesus was created--first and last direct by YHWH(Jehovah) all other things created Through Jesus( acts 2:22) proving he is Gods master worker.