The two or three witness rule of Jehovah's Witnesses

[savagewind]

Believe me--word gets around quickly of the offense.
Has wiki attended meetings and taken in knowledge for the last 50 years---no.
The Jw teachers aren't stupid--- things are done properly according to Gods rules--not mans.
If the parent of the accuser do not go to the police as instructed to it rest' on them. One can also choose the path of forgiveness with wisdom though.

Is what David did worse with Bathsheba and her husband?( an ended life by Davids doing, to steal his wife))
Wouldn't most point fingers and say--far removed from God( David) but he repented and God forgave him and remained Gods elite spiritual king.

Too much false bull being said about what occurs with paediophilia in the JW org.

It is not true that bad words about an elder or ministerial servant can "get arounnd". If a man is occupying a place of oversight it would be a sin to talk bad about him.

Anyway it is still being taught by Jehovah's Witnesses that a person's salvation depends on the person's submission to JW oversight. Unless, of course, a certain JW on forum is not truly a JW.

Please point out what I said that is "false bull" and I will be corrected.

 

[kjw47]

It is not true that bad words about an elder or ministerial servant can "get arounnd". If a man is occupying a place of oversight it would be a sin to talk bad about him.

Anyway it is still being taught by Jehovah's Witnesses that a person's salvation depends on the person's submission to JW oversight. Unless, of course, a certain JW on forum is not truly a JW.

Please point out what I said that is "false bull" and I will be corrected.

I didn't say you were saying false bull--I stated their is a lot of false bull being said about the JW,s concerning this matter.
I have been there and have seen first hand what occurs. --No matter who is at fault--it gets around quickly--all know in the congregation--The Elders would never let something like that not go unwarned to parents of children.

I believe the JW teachers are Jesus' real teachers---- If one isn't taught Jesus' real truths--then it is impossible to Worship the Father in spirit and truth. Hebrews 13:17---teaches one to be submissive to teachers.

 

[savagewind]

I didn't say you were saying false bull--

OK Thank you

I stated their is a lot of false bull being said about the JW,s concerning this matter.

Yes, I have witnessed the many angry bulls.

I have been there and have seen first hand what occurs. --No matter who is at fault--it gets around quickly--all know in the congregation--The Elders would never let something like that not go unwarned to parents of children.

I have been there too. At the time I was there we were not allowed to talk about other people's sins and when someone was reproved or disfellowshipped it was never announced what for. Never.

I believe the JW teachers are Jesus' real teachers---- If one isn't taught Jesus' real truths--then it is impossible to Worship the Father in spirit and truth. Hebrews 13:17---teaches one to be submissive to teachers.

Nice! But it is way off topic. I shall answer it though. I do not doubt there are teachers for Jesus in the congregation of Jehovah's Witneseses. I cannot fathom how you believe ALL of the teachers for Jesus are ALL Jehovah's Witnesses obeying the governing body.

Jesus is the Kingdom of God. Do you not see a multitude on the internet witnessing about Jesus? Oh though most are not saying Jesus gave back God's rule to MEN like you do.

 

[kjw47]

OK Thank you
Yes, I have witnessed the many angry bulls.I have been there too. At the time I was there we were not allowed to talk about other people's sins and when someone was reproved or disfellowshipped it was never announced what for. Never.Nice! But it is way off topic. I shall answer it though. I do not doubt there are teachers for Jesus in the congregation of Jehovah's Witneseses. I cannot fathom how you believe ALL of the teachers for Jesus are ALL Jehovah's Witnesses obeying the governing body.

Jesus is the Kingdom of God. Do you not see a multitude on the internet witnessing about Jesus? Oh though most are not saying Jesus gave back God's rule to MEN like you do.

No it is not announced from the platform--elders wives speak and it gets around quickly believe me. There is no way a paedophile is present without it being known.

I see a multitude teaching a false Jesus.

I never said Jesus gave back Gods rule to men--Jesus hands it back to his God and Father--I said-1Cor 15:24-28-- this is post Harmageddon.

 

[savagewind]

I never said Jesus gave back Gods rule to men--Jesus hands it back to his God and Father--I said-1Cor 15:24-28-- this is post Harmageddon.

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach Jesus hands "everything" to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses who are men.

45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

The Kingdom of God belongs to him.

 

[savagewind]

And he gives it to them....[but not really.]

 

[savagewind]

No it is not announced from the platform--elders wives speak and it gets around quickly believe me.

Is this something to make public? A man cannot be an elder if he cannot even keep his wife in line. Do you want scriptures?

There is no way a paedophile is present without it being known.

To everyone? Some people do not engage in gossip because they learn it is not right. I was a JW for nearly twenty years. I did not hear any gossip but because I was married to an unbeliever it might be I was considered "bad association".

I see a multitude teaching a false Jesus.

You see them teach a different Jesus than your governing body teaches.

 

[JM2C]

The Jehovah's Witnesses pattern themselves after the early Christian congregation. To the congregations Paul wrote "This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.". And of course he was Jewish and he knew this; Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

They use what the Bible says about two witnesses to set free members who are accused of child sexual abuse.

But there is a second witness. Every matter in the Christian congregation should be settle with prayer. "Where two or more are gathered in my name" says Jesus "I am there". Do the Jehovah's Witnesses think that Jesus does not know whenever a child is abused?

Matthew 10:29 Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge.

You have a point there, but since they do not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God who can be anywhere, they did not even consider that verse.

 

[savagewind]

You have a point there, but since they do not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God who can be anywhere, they did not even consider that verse.

They do not consider the verse saying God knows even when a small sparrow falls in connection with the problem of who is telling the truth.

They believe the scripture which says "disciple the nations...teaching them....and I am with you". They do not think of asking Jesus who is with them if the child has really been abused so they let the abuser go. How does Jesus feel when they do not ask him?

 

[JM2C]

To understand the two witness rule as it applies to the accusations of children is to be putting the written law ahead of reasonableness.

This is how it works: A child has the courage to admit an older person treated her wrongly. An accusation is brought up against the perpetrator to the elders in a congregation. The elders talk to the accused. The accused denies any wrong doing. The case is dropped. The reason why is the elders do not have enough evidence to act. If the accused does it again to another child, then there is enough evidence to go forward with it.

What is the statutes of limitations for child sex abuse in your state? States rules should supersedes their rules.

Ro 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Ro 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's"

If they don’t follow God’s rules then give them to Caesar.

 

[savagewind]

What is the statutes of limitations for child sex abuse in your state? States rules should supersedes their rules.

Ro 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Ro 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's"

If they don’t follow God’s rules then give them to Caesar.

Many people are harping on the JW society to change their custom to keep secret these cases so it is much more common now, I think, for them to be reported to the police.

The JWs have always prided themselves on their superior character. It is one important way that people are drawn to them. Because of this there have been instances where going to the police was discouraged. It would make them look bad.

 

[kjw47]

Is this something to make public? A man cannot be an elder if he cannot even keep his wife in line. Do you want scriptures?To everyone? Some people do not engage in gossip because they learn it is not right. I was a JW for nearly twenty years. I did not hear any gossip but because I was married to an unbeliever it might be I was considered "bad association".
You see them teach a different Jesus than your governing body teaches.

Should it be hidden from parents by the elders wife not speaking then? If the paedophile remained in the congregation?
In the ot--a prostitute( sin) hid two servants of Jehovah and lied(sin) to protect them--Jehovah blessed her--so certain matters are weightier than others. Not all congregations are spiritual--they keep trying though that is the important thing--never give up no matter how many times one falls.
They all watched Solomon fall--was Gods religion wrong--no
An Apostle sold Gods son for 30 pieces of silver--was the new religion Jesus starting wrong--No. Imperfect things come out of all imperfect men---
If one practices sin( worker of iniquity) they seem to think the paedophiles sin is worse than their sins--they are wrong. all of them are up the creek in the same boat with 0 paddle.

 

[kjw47]

The Jehovah's Witnesses teach Jesus hands "everything" to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses who are men.

45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

The Kingdom of God belongs to him.

So Jesus said that then-So its truth.
Jesus also taught of these( anointed)


Per-se) What ever you do( or don't do) to these the least of my brothers--you do to me--

So if one listens to Jesus brothers( teachers) then basically Jesus says you are listening to him. or vica versa.

 

[savagewind]

So Jesus said that then-So its truth.
Jesus also taught of these( anointed)


Per-se) What ever you do( or don't do) to these the least of my brothers--you do to me--

So if one listens to Jesus brothers( teachers) then basically Jesus says you are listening to him. or vica versa.

But please consider for one minute who TOLD you that.

Jesus said "WHO really is the faithful and discreet slave". THEY said "it's us, now obey us". Jesus never said it was them.

 

[savagewind]

actually Jesus warned that many would come in his name and mislead many but nowhere does he say he will hand over the rule to a man or men. They will say they do not rule instead of Jesus Christ. They say Jesus rules through them. Is that what you believe? Why doesn't Jesus rule through anyone but them?

 

[savagewind]

It is not a hard question. WHO says all kingdom interests have been handed over to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses? Did the ones who want the power say it is theirs or did the ONE who has the power say so? Did Jesus tell you that all his belongings are theirs or did THEY tell you it? Where did you hear it? Did you hear it from the spirit or did you hear it from the men?

You might say your own heart tells you it is true. OK. What about this please?

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9

 

[kjw47]

But please consider for one minute who TOLD you that.

Jesus said "WHO really is the faithful and discreet slave". THEY said "it's us, now obey us". Jesus never said it was them.

By teaching Jesus' truths is what makes them the FDS. No one else on this earth does.

 

[kjw47]

actually Jesus warned that many would come in his name and mislead many but nowhere does he say he will hand over the rule to a man or men. They will say they do not rule instead of Jesus Christ. They say Jesus rules through them. Is that what you believe? Why doesn't Jesus rule through anyone but them?

Jesus was granted a kingship ( Daniel 7:13-15)for 1000 years, and a bride( 144,000)( little flock)---For coming to earth and sacrificing himself to buy back what Adam had lost for mankind. These are also the anointed as well--some still on earth now--teaching. Giving (spiritual) food at the proper time.

Ephesians 5:23---Jesus is the head of the congregation---and since Jesus doesn't speak direct to the congregation, it is obvious his truths are revealed through his real teachers on earth--teaching to all the congregations that Jesus is the head of--These are the FDS. I know 100% for sure--The JW teachers are them.

 

[kjw47]

It is not a hard question. WHO says all kingdom interests have been handed over to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses? Did the ones who want the power say it is theirs or did the ONE who has the power say so? Did Jesus tell you that all his belongings are theirs or did THEY tell you it? Where did you hear it? Did you hear it from the spirit or did you hear it from the men?

You might say your own heart tells you it is true. OK. What about this please?

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9

They haven't been handed over yet. I think this occurs during the tribulation.

My bible says--- treacherous and desperate heart at Jer 17:9

Yes many false reasonings come out of imperfect men--even Gods own. It is wise to correct when known.
Gods word warns--beware if you think you are standing strong.

Its always occurred in Gods religion--The Israelites fell away many times--The Pharisees had many bad teachings, Jesus tried to show them and they hated him( refusal to make corrections)
Anything with imperfect men involved will be imperfect--it is important to seek and find the errors and make corrections.

 

[Pegg]

By teaching Jesus' truths is what makes them the FDS. No one else on this earth does.

well said kjw,

the fact is, any church could have proved to be the fds had they remained in the word of truth. Jesus never said the fds would be perfect infallible men or would already know everything or would never make a mistake.

The factors which gained them favor was their willingness to preach the good news of the kingdom as Jesus instructed and teach people the truth found in the bible. They were consistently striving to do that even when under test and trial.

If someone doesnt like what they teach they are not being forced to stay. They are welcome to go and find another church who they think is doing the right thing and teaching the right things. The door swings open both ways.