The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.

[Reverend Rick]

It's an HISTORICAL document more than a religious one. Rather than ELIMINATE these significant documents, they should also include any other legal offerings from other religions such as the code of Hammurabi.

Wow, we agree on something! Instead of removing something from the court house walls, we should add what ever is necessary to accommodate everyone. Freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion.

Folks can debate all they like, but push come to shove, the majority is going to rule. Having the minority ruling the majority on this issue will not stand.

 

[Smoke]

Wow, we agree on something!

See, Pete? I told you you were wrong!

 

[Scuba Pete]

See, Pete? I told you you were wrong!

I am feeling conflicted.

 

[Popeyesays]

. . .so is it a legal convention or a theological convention to write the date in such a manner?

Yes.

Regards,
Scott

 

[zippythepinhead]

This is a dubious statement at best. What are the principles uniquely "xian" it was founded upon?

To quote the "Declaration of Independence" ...All men are endowed by their Creator(notice capital 'C') with inalienable rights which include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Have you read the journals of the Founding Fathers or the Federalist Papers? James Madison himself would shred your argument from the grave.

 

[Popeyesays]

To quote the "Declaration of Independence" ...All men are endowed by their Creator(notice capital 'C') with inalienable rights which include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Have you read the journals of the Founding Fathers or the Federalist Papers? James Madison himself would shred your argument from the grave.

Remember that The Declaration of Independence is NOT a legal construct. It is not a constitutional document at all.

Regards,
Scott

 

[zippythepinhead]

Remember that The Declaration of Independence is NOT a legal construct. It is not a constitutional document at all.

Regards,
Scott

We are discussing intent. Therefore the Declaration of Independence as a guiding principle that led to the Constitution and the laws and freedoms we now enjoy.
This is why the left does not want God in the presedence of governance in this nation. Then they can create their own state religion of atheism and compel their own wishes upon the majoirty, who do not espouse them. A research of the intent of the Founding Fathers clearly establishes that the men who founded this country looked to a Higher Power for their rights and liberties.

You can dispute this all you want, but this is the written legacy that our Founding Fathers left us and the true history cannot be denied.:yes:

 

[logician]

To quote the "Declaration of Independence" ...All men are endowed by their Creator(notice capital 'C') with inalienable rights which include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Have you read the journals of the Founding Fathers or the Federalist Papers? James Madison himself would shred your argument from the grave.

Except this statement is not "uniquely" Xian at all. Many god concepts include a creator, including deism, the most common belief among our founding fathers.

 

[Popeyesays]

We are discussing intent. Therefore the Declaration of Independence as a guiding principle that led to the Constitution and the laws and freedoms we now enjoy.
This is why the left does not want God in the presedence of governance in this nation. Then they can create their own state religion of atheism and compel their own wishes upon the majoirty, who do not espouse them. A research of the intent of the Founding Fathers clearly establishes that the men who founded this country looked to a Higher Power for their rights and liberties.

You can dispute this all you want, but this is the written legacy that our Founding Fathers left us and the true history cannot be denied.:yes:

Okay, so why is God called upon in the Declaration and God is not mentioned in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

I agree that the Founding Fathers were religious men, mind you, though many of them were only nominal Christians and Deist by inclination.

I am Baha`i so I do not belong to any partisan political party or organization, by the way. Though I have not missed a general election in 32 years.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

Yes.

Regards,
Scott

thats a cop out ,its clearly a sentence written by people with a christian framework for living ( in my book,)

 

[Storm]

I don't feel like wading though 31 pages of posts, so I'll just ask:

Has the Treaty of Tripoli been cited yet?

 

[Sententia]

The founding fathers were religious but went out of their way to define this country as one where religion and government were seperate. They had fantastic reasons for do so. Evidence is thrown throughout this whole thread. Direct quotes and explanations and with sources.

No one is denying they were christians but this country was not founded as a christian nation.

 

[Sententia]

I don't feel like wading though 31 pages of posts, so I'll just ask:

Has the Treaty of Tripoli been cited yet?

Yes. (Feel free to Cite again for all the people that missed it).

 

[kai]

Okay, so why is God called upon in the Declaration and God is not mentioned in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?

I agree that the Founding Fathers were religious men, mind you, though many of them were only nominal Christians and Deist by inclination.

I am Baha`i so I do not belong to any partisan political party or organization, by the way. Though I have not missed a general election in 32 years.

Regards,
Scott

the constitution is dated "in the year of our lord " thats clearly not Lord Vader but Jesus! i think the only reason anyone would authenticate the date in that fashion would be if they were christian.

 

[Sententia]

the constitution is dated "in the year of our lord " thats clearly not Lord Vader but Jesus! i think the only reason anyone would authenticate the date in that fashion would be if they were christian.

This was covered too. Read the whole thread if possible, it is actually interesting if your moved by such things.

 

[Storm]

Yes. (Feel free to Cite again for all the people that missed it).

OK, I will. From the Wiki entry:
Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
​

It may not be the Constitution or Declaration of Independence, but it nevertheless comes straight from the Founding Fathers: the US of A was not founded as a Christian nation. No more than it was founded as a whites-only nation.

 

[kai]

This was covered too. Read the whole thread if possible, it is actually interesting if your moved by such things.

yes i have stated within this thread, that i have indeed waded through the whole thread, and found it very interesting, although much of it was taken up on the religions of the founding fathers themselves,

 

[kai]

OK, I will. From the Wiki entry:

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.​

It may not be the Constitution or Declaration of Independence, but it nevertheless comes straight from the Founding Fathers: the US of A was not founded as a Christian nation. No more than it was founded as a whites-only nation.

well it certainly holds no emnity to mussulmen because one became governor of California

 

[Storm]

hee..

 

[Storm]

Seriously, though, the claim that America was intended to be a Christian nation is pure historical revisionism intended to justify legislating Christian beliefs.