The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

First to clarify i am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush,the point i am trying to get accross is simple 3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses.
Which contradicts:
"A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book. (alkitabi almubeenu)" [12:1]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear; (kitabin mubeenin)" [27:1] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [28:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"By the Book that makes things clear,- (Waalkitabi almubeeni)" [43:2, 44:2][/FONT]

Allegorical or multi meaning verses are not clear,if they were there would be one type of Muslim but we know that Wahabi and Qutb sects follow a path of Islam totally different to say your average Muslim in the UK,these verses are very open to interpretation and to the wrong interpretation,if you intend to make things clear one would do so with verses that are,therefor this is in itself a contradiction.

Response: Yes, it would be a contridiction if the verses said that it didn't have different meanings. But it doesn't. It would be a contridiction if the verse said that it doesn't present clear signs. But it doesn't. What you have done is quoted a verse that says that there are verses with different "meanings", while the others say it has "clear signs". For there to be a contridiction, the verse would have to say that it reveals "unclear" signs, not different meaning verses because despite it's different meanings, it never says that the meanings are unclear. No contridiction.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: Yes, it would be a contridiction if the verses said that it didn't have different meanings. But it doesn't. It would be a contridiction if the verse said that it doesn't present clear signs. But it doesn't. What you have done is quoted a verse that says that there are verses with different "meanings", while the others say it has "clear signs". For there to be a contridiction, the verse would have to say that it reveals "unclear" signs, not different meaning verses because despite it's different meanings, it never says that the meanings are unclear. No contridiction.

It's a rare day, Fatihah, but I have to agree. It is perfectly reasonable to craft words that have multiple meanings and have each of those meanings be quite clear. For example, in what is called a "double entendre", the line is funny simply because you have to grasp multiple meanings of a given statement in order to see the veiled humor.

A double entendre may exploit puns to convey the second meaning, but puns are more often used in sentences that do not have a second meaning. Double entendres tend to rely more on multiple meanings of words, or different interpretations of the same primary meaning; they often exploit ambiguity and may be used to introduce it deliberately in a text.

 

[Gharib]

your scriptures say it is due to the involvement of devils there is rejectors and disbelievers.(devils are referred to parents)
So it is not their mistake that they became rejectors, so why they are sent to hell for punishment? and why allah cannot kill or punish the devils?

as has already been pointed out to you, nameless. devils referrs to devils, not humans and not parents.
it is a dissbelievers who is responsible for being a disbeliever not the devils. and the devils just make it easir for people to go astray. i'ts your fault for falling for their traps.

the people and the devils (not parents) are sent to hell for disbelieving.

where did you get the idea that Allah cannot punish nor kill the devils? he created them from fire and he can do to them what he pleases.

here is the proof, your friend jamal accepted that it is allah who created disabled people

yeah he is right. Allah creates disabled and abled people. so tell me how do you know that Allah is punishing that person who has been created disabled?

 

[Gharib]

i dont believe god has created us, also it is not the right way to answer, finding faults in others faith wont justify yours faith.

thats not what hinduism says.

if finding faults in other faiths wont justify another, then why are you trying to find faults in mine to justify yours? and it seems quite clear that you have no answer to my question.

 

[Gharib]

OK lets look at this logically,the Qur'an is a message sent down to "make things clear ," however several different Muslims could read the same allegorical verse and get several different interpretation and meanings.

yes thats true, but that doesn't mean that the multi meaning verses create confussion. you could have 3 different people looking at one house from 3 different angles, so how is any of them wrong when describing the house to you from the angle they were veiwing it?

There are many Muslim clerics,Sheikhs and Immams,all have studied the Quran and most have a different interpretation or meaning,now if things have been made clear and thats what the Qur'an itself states then this should not happen therefor having ambiguous verses is a contradiction.

i believe brother Fatihah has given you a very clear response to this. it is not a multi meaning post, it gets directly to the point. you should read it again if you have done so already.

 

[Gharib]

I think the Scientific miracles of the Quran should be put into context of the time ie 1400 years ago,then this science would have been impressive to the uneducated however we all know this knowledge was available hundreds of years before this time via the Greek Philosophers ie Leucippus,Democritus,Aristotle,Pythagoras etc and India produced so many great Mathematicians so the science of the Qur'an isn't so miraculous when viwed this way.

the scientific miracles of the quran are have not been copied from previous wrong theories.

a question to you. do you believe the quran has copied the bible?

 

[nameless]

thats not what hinduism says.

if finding faults in other faiths wont justify another, then why are you trying to find faults in mine to justify yours? and it seems quite clear that you have no answer to my question.

you dont know what hinduism is, people have different tastes, so hinduism has a number of sects and people can chose the sect which suits them. In my sect there is no creator or creation and hence there is no god. So your question to me is just invalid. But in your case you believe god created all so you have duty to explain questions regarding that.

 

[syberpriend]

OK that would be interesting

ok, u make new post for this, and invite me please, 2ndly for Wahabi and Qutb, if u say these sects go little different from other sects, its their intention, not the intention of Quran or teaching of Prophet Muhammad, like Jesus, he was not born again, or protestant, or roman catholic etc etc . Its the followers longggggg after get dispute for several reasons, mostly the reason of power that made sects, otherwise its only 1 religion and path which prophet showed to follow

 

[nameless]

yeah he is right. Allah creates disabled and abled people. so tell me how do you know that Allah is punishing that person who has been created disabled?

tell me where i said allah punishes disabled, i argued that allah punishes people by making them disabled that does not mean they are even punished after that, may be allah punishes after that too.

 

[nameless]

as has already been pointed out to you, nameless. devils referrs to devils, not humans and not parents.

you never proved that devils are not parents.

 

[Gharib]

you never proved that devils are not parents.

you haven't been paying attention, i can tell.

 

[nameless]

you haven't been paying attention, i can tell.

quote your previous post proving devils are not parents if there is any.

 

[Gharib]

tell me where i said allah punishes disabled, i argued that allah punishes people by making them disabled that does not mean they are even punished after that, may be allah punishes after that too.

so how can you prove your statement to be true. the one about Allah punishing people by creating them dissabled?
thats the one i was meant to say.

 

[Gharib]

you dont know what hinduism is, people have different tastes, so hinduism has a number of sects and people can chose the sect which suits them. In my sect there is no creator or creation and hence there is no god. So your question to me is just invalid. But in your case you believe god created all so you have duty to explain questions regarding that.

so how did everything come to exist if god doesn't exist and didn't create everything?

 

[nameless]

so how can you prove your statement to be true. the one about Allah punishing people by creating them dissabled?
thats the one i was meant to say.

taking birth as disabled makes life miserable, it is allah created them disabled, so it is a punishment.

 

[syberpriend]

If you need to call me anything, you are welcome to call me “insolent kafir”.
Kafir means who deny something, its not an abuse or bad word, maybe uve some other meaning for this
.
Over the last 8 years, I have not heard a Muslim ever make this claim. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back up your claim.
In the immortal words of Fatihah, "I see words. Where is the proof!"
what kinda claim u like? this is I asked u, u take part of science related to normal human being and growth, and inheritence, embyology, genetics, dont consider Quran as a book of science subject dude, its a book of guidance.

To be fair, neither Moore or Miller have anything remotely approaching “fame” anywhere outside of Muslim circles. The scientific world is hardly hanging on their every word. In fairness to William Campbell, I have not read a thing he has written although I have watched his amusing exchange with Dr. Zakir Naik. Naik is quite the bombastic showman, I’ll say that. Naik’s approach is somewhat juvenile, but effective, nonetheless.

No, I am not expecting anything scientific in the Qur’an beyond what was accepted in the 7th century. I’m still waiting for evidence of this so-called “ideal” society though.
My, but you are charmer.
ok, I'll give u link for ideal society showed in Quran, read it with open-heart,

It is true, I should have used the term “translations”, but even then, each translation I have read puts a slightly different twist on the meaning of the different sections. In effect, the translator consciously injects their own interpretations into the text and so, in English, at least, it is quite reasonable to say “versions” in this context. Deal with it.
Its the use of words, but the meaning still remain same, I told u already, version is totaly a different thing, version means u upgrade, or downgrade something, whereas translation means choice of words to describe meaning.Y is it hard to agree to u that there are no multiple meanings, if uve, show us as proof so we can discuss

Curiously, I don’t see much evidence of politeness in your amusing remarks. Perhaps you missed those teachings and should review them a few more times. You almost make me feel as if I am back on good old ISLAM.COM Their forums were pretty wild and had many people just like yourself!
Please use the proper term and call me “insolent kafir”.
Well, i started with due respect to u, but u dont like, so I went to the approach which u like, already I told u what kafir means, this is the meaning the 1 who deny, and u deny everything which is good, so if u like to call urself, call it, I dont mind.

As to your advice, I much prefer to be a thorn in people’s side.

If u want nice discussion, go ahead and ask anything related to Islam or any religion in a decent polite way, otherwise its a well known saying " TO GAIN RESPECT, DO RESPECT".

 

[nameless]

so how did everything come to exist if god doesn't exist and didn't create everything?

there was no creation, it naturally occurred. The universe was not created, it simply existed, and dont slip away from our current discussion.

 

[syberpriend]

taking birth as disabled makes life miserable, it is allah created them disabled, so it is a punishment.

A very childish and stupid statemet if u say disable ppl are dependant on others, a child is also dependant on his elders,it means wen ppl gets in old age, thhey are dependant on others, they feel hard to walk etc etc, so is it a punishment, talk something sensible dude

 

[Gharib]

taking birth as disabled makes life miserable, it is allah created them disabled, so it is a punishment.

how do you know that it makes life misserable? i can tell you about quite a number of people who are dissabled but are pretty happy. maybe much happeir than us abled people.

you keep saying it is a punishment, but have nothing to back it up with appart from making more unsuported statements. prove it nameless. PROVE IT.

 

[syberpriend]

there was no creation, it naturally occurred. The universe was not created, it simply existed, and dont slip away from our current discussion.

U quoted earlier that god dod'nt exist, so prove it also
how universe came into existence? dnt run from topic now,
who was 1st human, male or female?
name any created thing in the world, which came by itself?