The War on Christmas

[sojourner]

If the Bible is not the entire compass of Christianity then 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 is wrong in saying that 'all' Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction, that the man of God would be complete. Jesus believed that Scripture was religious truth- John 17:17- and that religious truth would set one free from what is religiously false..
Didn't Jesus even proclaim many 'Woes' against the false religious leaders of his day along with his reasons why at Matthew chapter 23?
( Mark 7:7; Matt 15:9).

The Bible has only been something like that since Martin Luther proclaimed sola scriptura in the 1500's. Since Timothy was written before the gospels were written, and before the canon was set, what Timothy is talking about is the OT. The Bible has never -- repeat, never -- been perceived as the entire compass of Xy. Except to the modern Biblical literalists. All told, they are few.

 

[sojourner]

really?

What religion do you think holds some kinda monopoly on Thanksgiving?

Since the Pilgrims were Christian -- as well as the other very early settlers, and since President Washington was a good Episcopalian, one would assume that the holiday is, at its core, Christian. But that doesn't mean that, as a state-sanctioned holiday, it should not extend beyond Xy to include other expressions of spirituality. There is no "monopoly." But there is a root.

 

[sojourner]

I do not believe I need to be reconciled with God, nor do I feel the need to spend a fortune (as if I had that) in gifts.
But I do enjoy the Holidays. We have FAMILY traditions. On the 13th of DEC, we celebrate Santa Lucia with handmade gifts. We celebrate the entire Yule. On Christmas eve we make cookies for Santa Clause, open our annual gifts of new pajamas or robes, watch the yule log burn and drink cocoa and coffee. In the morning we watch the kids open the rest of their gifts, usually quite a few games. Then a nice dinner with friends. Every New Year we pig out on tacos (long story behind that one)

This is my Christmas. These are my Holidays. This is my Hope, that everyone can enjoy this time, in the dead of winter, with those they care about.

Merry Christmas Sojourner

Those things are great, and I'm glad you enjoy them. To me, those things are outward and visible signs of a deeper grace that is imparted as God comes to be with us anew.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Paul wrote (1Cor10:20,21) that the things the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God.... You can not be drinking the cup of God and the cup of demons; You can not be partaking of the table of God and the table of demons. Doesn't that sound as if there should be no mixing of the two?

No where does it say it is fine to mix or fuse demonic pagan religious beliefs by adding or putting Christian names or labels on them. Didn't Jesus condemn religious tradition or customs outside of Scripture? Mark 7:7; Matthew 15:9.
Why did Jesus proclaim 'woes' against the religious leaders of his day according to his reasons at the 23rd chapter of Matthew?

 

[gnomon]

kapow kapow

rat tat tat tat

kapwing!

 

[Amill]

Since the Pilgrims were Christian -- as well as the other very early settlers, and since President Washington was a good Episcopalian, one would assume that the holiday is, at its core, Christian. But that doesn't mean that, as a state-sanctioned holiday, it should not extend beyond Xy to include other expressions of spirituality. There is no "monopoly." But there is a root.

If it hadn't been for the non christian native americans those first settlers wouldn't have been saved. I think it should be a holiday celebrating the Native American gods for teaching their followers to help people REGARDLESS what their religion is. They seem more pure than Christians. :angel2:

Or why not choose the day of thanksgiving declared by the Massachusetts governor in 1637? Where the Christian god helped provide a safe return of the colonist troops returning from a massacre of a Native American community? I guess it's fine by me if you called that the origin of this "Christian" holiday we call Thanksgiving.

 

[sojourner]

Paul wrote (1Cor10:20,21) that the things the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God.... You can not be drinking the cup of God and the cup of demons; You can not be partaking of the table of God and the table of demons. Doesn't that sound as if there should be no mixing of the two?

No where does it say it is fine to mix or fuse demonic pagan religious beliefs by adding or putting Christian names or labels on them. Didn't Jesus condemn religious tradition or customs outside of Scripture? Mark 7:7; Matthew 15:9.
Why did Jesus proclaim 'woes' against the religious leaders of his day according to his reasons at the 23rd chapter of Matthew?

You're so far off base, you're playing at Candlestick and we're playing at Fenway.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Those things are great, and I'm glad you enjoy them.

Thanks.

To me, those things are outward and visible signs of a deeper grace that is imparted as God comes to be with us anew.

Like you said, that sounds great, and I am glad you enjoy that feeling.

However, to both of us, Christmas means something different. My feelings on Christmas do not affect how it feels to you. It does not demean it, or lessen its meaning. No matter how I celebrate in my family, or how I feel about the Holidays. Christmas will mean the same to you as it always has. You will feel the grace of God anew every Christmas. I will simply enjoy my time with my family and friends.

 

[Smoke]

I can't believe how eager people are to be offended by good wishes. Regardless of your religion or lack thereof, the proper response to "Merry Christmas" is "Thank you." The proper response to "Happy Holidays," "Happy Hanukkah," "Happy Kwanzaa," "Happy Yule," or any good wishes is "Thank you."

In case of overtly religious greetings it is permitted to abstain. For instance, if you're not a Christian and somebody greets you with "Christ is born!" it is not necessary to respond "Glorify Him!" However, to take umbrage at "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" is boorish, childish, and rude.

 

[smitten508]

War on Christmas?!? Is it just Me, or is that an absurd statement to begin with? Christmas is a time of LOVE, PEACE and JOY. Not a time to argue. Whether you celebrate Christmas in a secular way or the traditional Christ's Mass, it makes no difference except in a personal sense. I myself celebrate the birth of Christ Jesus, many of my friends celebrate for time with family. Both are wonderful times! As a human community we should respect one another, as humanists we should engage in peaceful tolerane and as Christians we should love our neighbor and celebrate Christs coming everyday of the year...

 

[sky cake]

why is there a black jesus but no black santa?

 

[Kathryn]

If the Bible is not the entire compass of Christianity then 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 is wrong in saying that 'all' Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction, that the man of God would be complete. Jesus believed that Scripture was religious truth- John 17:17- and that religious truth would set one free from what is religiously false..
Didn't Jesus even proclaim many 'Woes' against the false religious leaders of his day along with his reasons why at Matthew chapter 23?
( Mark 7:7; Matt 15:9).

This is really a topic for another thread but I couldn't let this slide without addressing it.

The Bible may be all true but it is not all truth. There is truth outside the Bible. Jesus Himself spoke many, many words that are not recorded in the Bible - weren't all His words truth whether they were recorded in the Bible or not? (John 21:25)

All scripture is inspired by God - but that doesn't mean that other truths are NOT inspired or instigated by God.

The bible itself doesn't support the concept of Sola Scriptura.

 

[andys]

Ah, Sojourner,
I agree that "There's nothing wrong with assigning meaning to cultural icons."
As long as they're YOUR own icons! You sneaky little Christians assigned YOUR meaning to OUR "icons" and then you whine that WE are demeaning the "true" meaning of this age-old, pre-Christmas celebration. I want to throw up.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Ah, Sojourner,
I agree that "There's nothing wrong with assigning meaning to cultural icons."
As long as they're YOUR own icons! You sneaky little Christians assigned YOUR meaning to OUR "icons" and then you whine that WE are demeaning the "true" meaning of this age-old, pre-Christmas celebration. I want to throw up.

Just wondering what you mean by OUR icons?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Have you heard of the "Advent Conspiracy"? Bill O'Reilly and other defenders of a real Jesus centered Christmas bemoans the people going around and saying "Happy Holiday" instead of "Marry Christmas" as a greeting during the month of Dec. They also want church people to stop being part of the $450 billion 'present' giving and give a lot more to the church so the pastors will have more money to build bigger and better religious complexes. Many of these pastors wages are set up on a percentage of the church income so what helps God's money also helps the pastors income.
Anyone want to comment?:cold:

I've read the "Advent Conspiracy." It's not a very good book.

The book basically provides some therapy for wealthier middle class Americans who are stress out from parties and buying gifts during the Christmas season. The pastors encourage these Christians to worship God more fully during the season and give more meaningful gifts - which includes giving miniscule amounts to the poor - but the pastors stop short of a full criticism of capitalism and greed - which is the book's greatest failure.

The authors seem to assume that greed is something new and seek to recover the ture meaning of Christmas. That's not only historically incorrect, it's boring and lame.

The book essentially uses miniscule giving to the poor as a reason fur justifying modern pagan celebrations of Christmas that it slightly condemns.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You sneaky little Christians assigned YOUR meaning to OUR "icons" and then you whine that WE are demeaning the "true" meaning of this age-old, pre-Christmas celebration.

:biglaugh:

 

[McBell]

Please see 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 and Romans 15:4

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Version)


16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Romans 15:4 (King James Version)


4For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
​

Neither of your references even mentions the Bible...

Perhaps you misunderstood the question:

Would you please be so kind as to point out where the Bible (or any other religious text) states that the Bible is ALL scripture?
​

Because if the two "references" you presented above is all you got, you got nothing.

 

[McBell]

That's true, however, shopping has taken on a whole different importance recently.

Gee, you think perhaps it might have something to do with the recession?

 

[sojourner]

If it hadn't been for the non christian native americans those first settlers wouldn't have been saved. I think it should be a holiday celebrating the Native American gods for teaching their followers to help people REGARDLESS what their religion is. They seem more pure than Christians.

You're right. However, since it was Christians giving thanks, it is appropriate for them to thank the Diety who is Reality for them. They do seem more pure than Christians in many ways, and I admire and respect them.

 

[sojourner]

Or why not choose the day of thanksgiving declared by the Massachusetts governor in 1637? Where the Christian god helped provide a safe return of the colonist troops returning from a massacre of a Native American community? I guess it's fine by me if you called that the origin of this "Christian" holiday we call Thanksgiving.

It's obvious that this is a cheap jab at Xy, based upon an isolated negative event. No one's perfect -- even the self-assured, holier-than-thou atheists who "live in the real world" and "don't believe in fairy tales." Quite frankly, I don't know why y'all insist on holding us to a higher standard than we deserve. We are, after all, flawed human beings like everyone else.