The Watchmaker Revisited

[Subduction Zone]

Who said a word about God/s?

Read the title of the thread. If your post had nothing to do with the thread why post here? Your post at the very least looks like an appeal to woo based upon an argument from ignorance.

 

[ERLOS]

Sorry, I do realise the subject of the thread is The Watchmaker.

 

[ERLOS]

No woo intended. But observation that energy goes beyond science/physics. It doesn't negate it. But 'scientists' claiming they have the full handle on 'energy' is just as ridiculous as yogi flyers claiming they understand quantum physics?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No woo intended. But observation that energy goes beyond science/physics. It doesn't negate it. But 'scientists' claiming they have the full handle on 'energy' is just as ridiculous as yogi flyers claiming they understand quantum physics?

Where have they made that claim? The reason that they use terms like "dark energy" and "dark matter" is because the word "dark" means that they are not fully understood. And what observation is there that energy goes beyond physics? This appears to be a claim on your part that you need to substantiate a bit.

 

[ERLOS]

Where have they made that claim? The reason that they use terms like "dark energy" and "dark matter" is because the word "dark" means that they are not fully understood. And what observation is there that energy goes beyond physics? This appears to be a claim on your part that you need to substantiate a bit.

Well, the big bang is an infinity. A black hole is an infinity. Beyond (present) physics? Dark energy is beyond present physics. So I'm nor arguing with what is known. I'm proposing there is still very much unknown. I'm not trying to prove a point. I've read the thread and taking it on from there.

I realise you may be a geologist. I'm not a young earth fundamentalist. I'm not disputing geology. But I've answered you. Now can you answer me that you know what energy is?

 

[ERLOS]

 

[ERLOS]

And don't worry, I quite understand that Einstein's belief is out-of-fashion

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, the big bang is an infinity. A black hole is an infinity. Beyond (present) physics? Dark energy is beyond present physics. So I'm nor arguing with what is known. I'm proposing there is still very much unknown. I'm not trying to prove a point. I've read the thread and taking it on from there.

I realise you may be a geologist. I'm not a young earth fundamentalist. I'm not disputing geology. But I've answered you. Now can you answer me that you know what energy is?

Energy in physics is merely bookkeeping. Do you have a different definition?

By the way, neither the Big Bang nor is a blackhole "infinity". A singularity is merely when the laws of physics breaks down and that occurs before any values are infinite.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And don't worry, I quite understand that Einstein's belief is out-of-fashion

Einstein did not even believe in any gods. He used the term figuratively more than anything else.

 

[ERLOS]

Energy in physics is merely bookkeeping. Do you have a different definition?

By the way, neither the Big Bang nor is a blackhole "infinity". A singularity is merely when the laws of physics breaks down and that occurs before any values are infinite.

Physics breaks down, mate. It stops against a wall. Energy, whatever it is, goes on. I've answered you, so far? Do you know what energy IS? Beyond bookkeeping?

 

[ERLOS]

Einstein did not even believe in any gods. He used the term figuratively more than anything else.

He was humble. He would hate the arrogance of many physicists today

 

[Subduction Zone]

Physics breaks down, mate. It stops against a wall. Energy, whatever it is, goes on. I've answered you, so far? Do you know what energy IS? Beyond bookkeeping?

At one point all that can be said is "We don't know yet". You seem to have an agenda. Walls have been hit in physics again and again. Walls have never justified any other belief. So what is your point in posting here?

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was humble. He would hate the arrogance of many physicists today

What arrogance?

 

[ERLOS]

My point is there may be more on heaven and earth Horatio. But you haven't told me yet what energy is? So ...

 

[Polymath257]

My point is there may be more on heaven and earth Horatio. But you haven't told me yet what energy is? So ...

Energy is the quantity conserved because the basic laws are invariant under a time shift. Any symmetry such as this (time shift invariance) gives rise to a conserved quantity by Noether's theorem. Energy is the corresponding conserved quantity here. For invariance under spatial shifts, the conserved quantity is momentum. For invariance under rotations, the conserved quantity is angular momentum.

In each case, the conserved quantity is defined by the symmetry.

 

[ERLOS]

Look, I'm new here and not in a position to shoot the odds. I object to mystics quoting quantum physics to back themselves up. I quite understand the problem. But when someone like Roger Penronse ventures, very cautiously, that perhaps the brain does NOT create 'the mind' perhaps he's worth a listen?

So I'm not in a position to argue with specialist scientists in their own disciplines.

 

[Polymath257]

No woo intended. But observation that energy goes beyond science/physics. It doesn't negate it. But 'scientists' claiming they have the full handle on 'energy' is just as ridiculous as yogi flyers claiming they understand quantum physics?

Not at all. Energy is a physical quantity that is defined as the conserved quantity due to time shift invariance of the basic laws. That *is* the 'full handle' on the concept of energy.

 

[Polymath257]

Where have they made that claim? The reason that they use terms like "dark energy" and "dark matter" is because the word "dark" means that they are not fully understood. And what observation is there that energy goes beyond physics? This appears to be a claim on your part that you need to substantiate a bit.

Actually, in both cases, the term 'dark' refers more to the fact that they do not interact with light.

 

[Polymath257]

Physics breaks down, mate. It stops against a wall. Energy, whatever it is, goes on. I've answered you, so far? Do you know what energy IS? Beyond bookkeeping?

Walls of this sort are pushed back through more observation. When you say 'energy goes on', what exactly do you mean?

 

[ERLOS]

Walls of this sort are pushed back through more observation. When you say 'energy goes on', what exactly do you mean?

That's a direct question, to which I don't have a proper answer. I don't know. I essentially grasp Hawking radiation. Sorry, I don't have enough physics. But whatever anyone says, I do know that physics doesn't have ALL the answers now, and doubt it ever will have them Just new questions? Sorry, I've put my penny in thd pot, may I please gracefully back out now? Lol ...