The wedding of jesus

[emiliano]

The German Theologians did not have to meet to figure that "The Jews murdered Jesus." They had only to open the NT and have it in a silver platter. The accusations are there only too clear. That's exactly where Hitler got his inspiration from for the
"Final Solution." It was also from the same source that Christianity got the tools to issue its Crusades whose Christian sword shed the blood of thousands of Jews. Likewise the Christian Inquisition whose "Autos-da-Fe" burned thousands of Jewish bodies in the public squares of Europe.
Ben :shout

But they are so fond of their meeting, Ben there are not many people that says that the Jews murdered Jesus, they could not, cause they were a conquered people at that time, where do you read this in the NT? The Romans care very little about the problems that Jesus caused to the Jews, the Roman kill Him because they thought that He was organizing a rebellion against Rome.
Hitler got his inspiration from a philosopher, an atheist Nietzsche and his over-man theories, Hither was able to united the German people against the Jews because they considered all other nations dogs and pigs, he gather his expert to proved that the Germans where the master race (over-man) and that the Jews were inferior, then he added other races and started his racial cleansing. The crusades were campaigns to gain control of Jerusalem. The Inquisition burned more Christians than Jews. They like other people were at one time quite barbarous, what do you answers to people that make the same charges to Judaism? Moses and His successors campaign were even more barbarous than the crusades and the crusades were inspired by the OT just read the books of Samuel. Where do Muslims get the idea of Jihad if not from the OT?

 

[Heneni]

So have we officially moved on from the main topic to other areas....?

yip

 

[Ben Masada]

But they are so fond of their meeting, Ben there are not many people that says that the Jews murdered Jesus, they could not, cause they were a conquered people at that time, where do you read this in the NT? The Romans care very little about the problems that Jesus caused to the Jews, the Roman kill Him because they thought that He was organizing a rebellion against Rome.
Hitler got his inspiration from a philosopher, an atheist Nietzsche and his over-man theories, Hither was able to united the German people against the Jews because they considered all other nations dogs and pigs, he gather his expert to proved that the Germans where the master race (over-man) and that the Jews were inferior, then he added other races and started his racial cleansing. The crusades were campaigns to gain control of Jerusalem. The Inquisition burned more Christians than Jews. They like other people were at one time quite barbarous, what do you answers to people that make the same charges to Judaism? Moses and His successors campaign were even more barbarous than the crusades and the crusades were inspired by the OT just read the books of Samuel. Where do Muslims get the idea of Jihad if not from the OT?

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Well, in that acase, I guess everything comes down to whom holds the power. When the Jews had the power they killed Pagans. When Christians had the power they killed Jews, when Muslims had the power they killed both Christians and Jews. And so forth. When Germany had power they killed non-Germans. Now is the turn of America. God know who will be next. That's exactly what my young son said: "Dad, Eretz Yisrael belongs to whom has the power, and not whom God gave it to. Today it belongs to the Jews. When the "Palestinians" get power they will take it from the Jews." You are probably right, I said. Now, I tell you the same: You are probably right. :clap

 

[emiliano]

Hi Ben, How old is your son? What an insight he have, my answer to him is that Israel belong to our God by election, we Christian should be grateful to the Jews and prise God that correct them, I think that there is a message in all their trails and tribulations, have you thought of what would have had happen if God didn’t blind them to their Messiah? They would take him for themselves, and demand that He obliterate all other nations, gentiles, leaven out God’s command that they be a be blessing to all Nations of the earth, What is going to happen to Christianity? They will be persecuted almost to extinction, that it what is prophesied in our Bible, America? Well these are a funny lot, have you heard them preaching that they are the new Israel? But they want a easy way to do it with none of the rules, statutes and regulations that God demands.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

yip

sad.....:sad:

 

[Ben Masada]

Hi Ben, How old is your son? What an insight he have, my answer to him is that Israel belong to our God by election, we Christian should be grateful to the Jews and prise God that correct them, I think that there is a message in all their trails and tribulations, have you thought of what would have had happen if God didn’t blind them to their Messiah? They would take him for themselves, and demand that He obliterate all other nations, gentiles, leaven out God’s command that they be a be blessing to all Nations of the earth, What is going to happen to Christianity? They will be persecuted almost to extinction, that it what is prophesied in our Bible, America? Well these are a funny lot, have you heard them preaching that they are the new Israel? But they want a easy way to do it with none of the rules, statutes and regulations that God demands.

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My son is 16. I believe we have been granted freewill, and I believe that God does not interfere with man's freewill. Therefore, it makes no sense to me that God has blinded Israel, as you claim, to the Messiah. Furthermore, I don't believe that Israel had been blinded to the Messiah because one cannot be blind to himself. I believe that Israel is the Messiah.

Ben :rainbow1:

 

[emiliano]

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My son is 16. I believe we have been granted freewill, and I believe that God does not interfere with man's freewill. Therefore, it makes no sense to me that God has blinded Israel, as you claim, to the Messiah. Furthermore, I don't believe that Israel had been blinded to the Messiah because one cannot be blind to himself. I believe that Israel is the Messiah.

Ben :rainbow1:

Oh yes I heard that one before, do you mean the suffering servant?
One thing to consider is that God puts His spirit on one person not in entire nations, what always puzzles me when a read passages in the OT is how easily Israel (your Messiah) turned away from their God to follow other Gods, to follow the Gods of the tribes that they miraculously overcame, they have such problems recognising God. As Isaiah says: Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for Jehovah has spoken, I have nursed and brought up sons, and they have rebelled against Me.
Isa 1:3 The ox knows his owner, and the *** his master's crib; but Israel does not know; My people do not understand.
Isa 1:4 Woe, sinful nation, a people heavy with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, sons who corrupt! They have forsaken Jehovah; they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger; they have gone away backward.
Isa 1:5 Why should you be stricken any more? You will revolt more and more; the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Pretty heavy stuff, don’t you think?
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself to Baal-peor. And the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel.
Jdg 2:12 And they forsook Jehovah, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt. And they followed other gods of the gods of the people who were around them, and bowed themselves to them, and provoked Jehovah to anger.
Jdg 2:17 And yet they would not listen to their judges, but they went lusting after other gods, and bowed themselves to them. They turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, for they had obeyed the commandments of Jehovah; these did not do
Jdg 2:19 And it happened when the judge was dead, they returned and made themselves more rotten than their fathers in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down to them. They did not cease from their own doings nor from their stubborn
1Ki 11:4 For it happened when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods. And his heart was not perfect with Jehovah his God, as was the heart of David his father.
Israel the Messiah? Not likely!:areyoucra

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Can we rename this thread since it's not about the wedding of Yeshua anymore?? For kicks and giggles Emiliano....I thought their bible does in fact say God will bestow his spirit on all flesh.....?? I think it was in Joel 2:28

 

[Ben Masada]

Oh yes I heard that one before, do you mean the suffering servant?
One thing to consider is that God puts His spirit on one person not in entire nations, what always puzzles me when a read passages in the OT is how easily Israel (your Messiah) turned away from their God to follow other Gods, to follow the Gods of the tribes that they miraculously overcame, they have such problems recognising God. As Isaiah says: Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for Jehovah has spoken, I have nursed and brought up sons, and they have rebelled against Me.
Isa 1:3 The ox knows his owner, and the *** his master's crib; but Israel does not know; My people do not understand.
Isa 1:4 Woe, sinful nation, a people heavy with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, sons who corrupt! They have forsaken Jehovah; they have provoked the Holy One of Israel to anger; they have gone away backward.
Isa 1:5 Why should you be stricken any more? You will revolt more and more; the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Pretty heavy stuff, don’t you think?
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself to Baal-peor. And the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel.
Jdg 2:12 And they forsook Jehovah, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt. And they followed other gods of the gods of the people who were around them, and bowed themselves to them, and provoked Jehovah to anger.
Jdg 2:17 And yet they would not listen to their judges, but they went lusting after other gods, and bowed themselves to them. They turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, for they had obeyed the commandments of Jehovah; these did not do
Jdg 2:19 And it happened when the judge was dead, they returned and made themselves more rotten than their fathers in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down to them. They did not cease from their own doings nor from their stubborn
1Ki 11:4 For it happened when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods. And his heart was not perfect with Jehovah his God, as was the heart of David his father.
Israel the Messiah? Not likely!:areyoucra

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Emiliano,

It does not matter how long is your list with the sins of Israel. I know that according
to Isaiah 9:8 God had decided to blot Judah from the face of the earth because of
her sins. But because He had promised that Tribe to David forever as a Lamp in Jerusalem, according to I Kings 11:36, the Divine judgment which was supposed to finish with Judah fell upon Israel instead. If you want to have a better idea of what I am talking about read my new topic about "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53". Then, we can take from there.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Can we rename this thread since it's not about the wedding of Yeshua anymore?? For kicks and giggles Emiliano....I thought their bible does in fact say God will bestow his spirit on all flesh.....?? I think it was in Joel 2:28

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Do you still have any doubt about the wedding of Jesus with Mary Magdalene in Canah?

Ben

 

[emiliano]

Can we rename this thread since it's not about the wedding of Yeshua anymore?? For kicks and giggles Emiliano....I thought their bible does in fact say God will bestow his spirit on all flesh.....?? I think it was in Joel 2:28

I’ve known lots of people that like to do this, mutilating the context of scriptures, when will this take place? after those days, right? And what are those days? When God Himself tabernacle in the midst of man , Joe 2:27 And you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am Jehovah your God, and no one else; and My people shall never be ashamed. You get it? you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, in the midst not on an entire nation. Think again! Re-naming the thread won’t do it. Read in context that’s may do it :sarcastic

 

[emiliano]

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I believe we have been granted freewill, and I believe that God does not interfere with man's freewill.
Ben :rainbow1:

That’s another thing that I can’t see in scripture “God does not interfere with man's freewill”? Let take Moses for example did he have untouched free will, was he able to do his will? Very few human have tried to do what they saw best for themselves than Moses, he didn’t want to be leader of the Israelites, he reached to a point where he asked God to kill him rather than continue in his task to lead without God leading.
Exo 32:7 And Jehovah said to Moses, Go! Get down, for your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, are corrupted.
Exo 32:11 And Moses prayed to Jehovah his God, and said, Jehovah, why does Your wrath become hot against Your people whom You have brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Whose people were they? Who brought them out? Did God asked them if the were willing to be His or Moses people? Could they freely choose? Surely they had free will, but could they resist God’s will? In all instances God control man’s environment and with this power imposes His will so to me is not surprising that God blinded the Jews to the Messiah so that they could not shunt the nations because God’s will is that they are the root of His people not that they are exclusively the Jews but all those that receive Him.

 

[Ben Masada]

That’s another thing that I can’t see in scripture “God does not interfere with man's freewill”? Let take Moses for example did he have untouched free will, was he able to do his will? Very few human have tried to do what they saw best for themselves than Moses, he didn’t want to be leader of the Israelites, he reached to a point where he asked God to kill him rather than continue in his task to lead without God leading.
Exo 32:7 And Jehovah said to Moses, Go! Get down, for your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, are corrupted.
Exo 32:11 And Moses prayed to Jehovah his God, and said, Jehovah, why does Your wrath become hot against Your people whom You have brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Whose people were they? Who brought them out? Did God asked them if the were willing to be His or Moses people? Could they freely choose? Surely they had free will, but could they resist God’s will? In all instances God control man’s environment and with this power imposes His will so to me is not surprising that God blinded the Jews to the Messiah so that they could not shunt the nations because God’s will is that they are the root of His people not that they are exclusively the Jews but all those that receive Him.

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We do have absolute freewill and God indeed does not interfere in man's freewill. Now, let me explain my position by using your own arguement above. Yes sir, let's
take Moses. Did God force him to go down to Egypt and suffer for almost 40 years
to guide the Jews through the desert? No, He didn't. He rather pleaded with him to take that task. And Moses, who could very well have refused, decided to give God a hand on that redemption. Moses used his freewill to obey. And all along, he could have given up the enterprise by even killing himself but he used his freewill not to do so. We do have absolute freewill. Anyone can use his freewill even to kill himself
any time he wants. Do you understand me?

If it was up to God to interfere with man's freewill, why didn't He just transfer the whole people in a second to Canaan? Because it would be an evidence that we don't have freewill. Yes again sir, the People could choose and resist God's will. We still can. It was valid then and today. And God did not blind the Jews to the Messiah.
It would be a contradiction in terms. Besides, Jesus was not the Messiah, and all that Christians have to claim that role for him are assumptions. Isaiah mentions the Messiah by name, and the name is obviously not Jesus but Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9: 44:1,2,21; 45:4)

Ben :clap

 

[emiliano]

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Emiliano,
It does not matter how long is your list with the sins of Israel. I know that according
to Isaiah 9:8 God had decided to blot Judah from the face of the earth because of
her sins. But because He had promised that Tribe to David forever as a Lamp in Jerusalem, according to I Kings 11:36, the Divine judgment which was supposed to finish with Judah fell upon Israel instead. If you want to have a better idea of what I am talking about read my new topic about "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53". Then, we can take from there.
Ben

Thank for the offer I went to that thread, but I am not into the simile thing I don’t understand it, not only the Jewish ones but also the Christian’s similes. As for this one, it has reached the end, it was interesting but DP is right it is an offshoot of your topic.

 

[Ben Masada]

Thank for the offer I went to that thread, but I am not into the simile thing I don’t understand it, not only the Jewish ones but also the Christian’s similes. As for this one, it has reached the end, it was interesting but DP is right it is an offshoot of your topic.

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You mean you have never heard of the concept of Messiah be Joseph vs. Messiah ben David? It comes from the one of the two Branches: Judah and Israel. Well, as
you said, you are not into similes. But mind you, the truth is often taught through
similes, allegories and metaphors. And in the case of Jesus, parables.

Ben :clap

 

[emiliano]

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You mean you have never heard of the concept of Messiah be Joseph vs. Messiah ben David? It comes from the one of the two Branches: Judah and Israel. Well, as
you said, you are not into similes. But mind you, the truth is often taught through
similes, allegories and metaphors. And in the case of Jesus, parables.
Ben :clap

Hi Ben,
Ben I didn’t say that I don’t know or heard of this similes, I say I don’t understand them, eg. The two Messiah thing Properly speaking, Messiah Ben Joseph is Ephraim or Israel I am sure that you use a different version than the one I know, where we read he this, he that, he, he…………So how he becomes “Ephraim or Israel” and king David Judah?

the Suffering Servant was without guile, and sinless. That's exactly what Israel was: Pure of the sins he died for, since they were the sins of Judah and not his. Messiah ben Joseph therefore, did not die for his sins but for the sins of Messiah ben David.

That’s new to me, since the very first day that the ancient Israelites stepped out of Egypt they sinned and corrupted themselves.

Therefore, according to Isaiah 9:8, the final judgment that was supposed to come to Judah fell upon Israel instead, and Messiah ben Joseph had to go instead of Judah.

Ah, so God got it wrong He judged the wrong tribe? Ben see how this turns me off, I believe in an omniscient God, your simile diminishes this attribute of God.

Therefore, Israel was removed because of the sins of another. He was pierced so to speak, by the sins of Judah.

Come on Ben, we better leave it where it is “I don’t understand it” I am more inclined to relate this to Jesus piercing by the Roman soldier
Gen 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Do you think that the earth will remain forever?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... But mind you, the truth is often taught through
similes, allegories and metaphors. And in the case of Jesus, parables.

Ben :clap

Speaking of metaphors, I just love the fact that he always ends by applauding himself.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Controversy is the best publicity why?
because of the human minds which becomes attached to whatever possible.
Buddha therefore said: *KILL ME even if you find me in the WAY* but still am sure buddhist followers would fight it out if someone said something which would go against their mental makeup.
This thread received 297 posts before this one in such a short time only because it generate enough heat amongst so many individual's mind.
If majority would be in the no-mind zone as Jesus wanted then surely this would have died a natural death as why care about unnecessary gossip?
Does this anyway affect my path of becoming enlightened?
Everyone is free to think anything on any topic but that may not necessarily be the truth; Lies told convincingly by many people becomes the truth in such fashion.
Love & rgds

 

[Ben Masada]

Speaking of metaphors, I just love the fact that he always ends by applauding himself.

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No, that's not it. I just love those hands. Perhaps there is something psychological to it after all.

Ben:no:

 

[Ben Masada]

Hi Ben,
Ben I didn’t say that I don’t know or heard of this similes, I say I don’t understand them, eg. The two Messiah thing Properly speaking, Messiah Ben Joseph is Ephraim or Israel I am sure that you use a different version than the one I know, where we read he this, he that, he, he…………So how he becomes “Ephraim or Israel” and king David Judah?

That’s new to me, since the very first day that the ancient Israelites stepped out of Egypt they sinned and corrupted themselves.

Ah, so God got it wrong He judged the wrong tribe? Ben see how this turns me off, I believe in an omniscient God, your simile diminishes this attribute of God.


Come on Ben, we better leave it where it is “I don’t understand it” I am more inclined to relate this to Jesus piercing by the Roman soldier
Gen 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Do you think that the earth will remain forever?

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Your questions give off only the information that you have not read my original topic about "The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53." I explain everything very clearly in there. If you don't get it, I guess you might as well forget it.

Ben