The witchhunt continues...

[Father Heathen]

forcing people to believe things which are not true.

This is a ridiculous straw man. How is anyone being "forced" to do anything, other than to mind their own business?

 

[YmirGF]

But then you did so anyway in the following sentence?

DOH! (Busted)!

Yes. Yes, he did.

OMG. *hangs head in shame*

 

[YmirGF]

You may want to edit a few of the pronouns in the post then. ;-)

*Looks nervously at a moped going past the house*

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is a ridiculous straw man. How is anyone being "forced" to do anything, other than to mind their own business?

They think someone like me is forcing them. But truth be told, socially transitioning just kind of happened for me. I didn't come out. I didn't tell people anything, the frequency of people referring to me as female just went up quite abit--even being dressed as male--and that was it.
I hate to disappoint my audience and their expectations of me, but knives, stabbings, blood or threats from someone who may or may not be unhinged wasn't a part of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

OMG. *hangs head in shame*

Seems rather pompous to say you can't do something without risking legal consequences amd then do it anyways.

 

[YmirGF]

Seems rather pompous to say you can't do something without risking legal consequences amd then do it anyways.

Forgiving a typo isn't one of your strong suits, eh? Duly noted.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Forgiving a typo isn't one of your strong suits, eh? Duly noted.

*guffaw snort*

but he is

This person is a living characature of what a gay man thinks women are like. It's stereotypical drivel and has never been more than that.

Those weren't typos.

 

[We Never Know]

Which specific law says this, and how many people have been arrested for misgendering someone in Canada?

"At the level of anti-discrimination, C-16 means that you can instigate a complaint for discrimination or harassment. Using the wrong pronouns repeatedly after being made aware that a person uses other pronouns might amount to harassment, a position that is taken by the Ontario Human Rights Commission. Accidental or occasional use of the wrong pronouns would not be sufficiently grave or frequent to be considered harassment under the law. This new law is enforced administratively through the Human Rights Commission and Tribunal. Because of the obstacles and costs involved in the procedure, especially if the Commission does not support the case, enforcement of Bill C-16 is predicated on the time and financial access of complaintants, many of whom will not have the thousands of dollars necessary to sue without Commission support."

No, pronouns won’t send you to jail: The misunderstood scope of Bill C-16

With all the ink spilled talking about Bill C-16, a bill to protect gender identity and gender expression in the Canadian Human Rights Code…

medium.com

 

[Debater Slayer]

"At the level of anti-discrimination, C-16 means that you can instigate a complaint for discrimination or harassment. Using the wrong pronouns repeatedly after being made aware that a person uses other pronouns might amount to harassment, a position that is taken by the Ontario Human Rights Commission. Accidental or occasional use of the wrong pronouns would not be sufficiently grave or frequent to be considered harassment under the law. This new law is enforced administratively through the Human Rights Commission and Tribunal. Because of the obstacles and costs involved in the procedure, especially if the Commission does not support the case, enforcement of Bill C-16 is predicated on the time and financial access of complaintants, many of whom will not have the thousands of dollars necessary to sue without Commission support."

No, pronouns won’t send you to jail: The misunderstood scope of Bill C-16

With all the ink spilled talking about Bill C-16, a bill to protect gender identity and gender expression in the Canadian Human Rights Code…

medium.com

Exactly: Repeated, deliberate misgendering may be considered harassment (as it should be whether the target is transgender or cisgender, in my opinion), but being sent to jail for it is an entirely different story, and there hasn't been a single recorded case in Canada where someone was jailed for, say, misgendering a coworker or student since Bill C-16 passed in 2017.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

as it should be whether the target is transgender or cisgender, in my opinion

Definitely. It seems like everyone knew and accepted it's rude until RWers, Conservatives and the Christians who are both decided it's their free speech right to be rude to a certain demograph.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Justice Clarence Thomas argued in a concurring opinion of the Dobb's decision (overturning Roe v Wade) that the Supreme Court “should reconsider” its past rulings codifying rights to contraception access, same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage. So now SCOTUS itself raised the issue, how fast do you think the slavering hordes are going to jump onto that bandwagon?

Here is what was said in the opinion of the court: (Page 71 & 72, 2008 Term Opinions of the Court)

Finally, the dissent suggests that our decision calls into question Griswold, Eisenstadt, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Post, at 4–5, 26–27, n. 8. But we have stated unequivocally that “[n]othing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.” Supra, at 66. We have also explained why that is so: rights regarding contraception and same-sex relationships are inherently different from the right to abortion because the latter (as we have stressed) uniquely involves what Roe and Casey termed “potential life.” Roe, 410 U. S., at 150 (emphasis deleted); Casey, 505 U. S., at 852. Therefore, a right to abortion cannot be justified by a purported analogy to the rights recognized in those other cases or by “appeals to a broader right to autonomy.” Supra, at 32. It is hard to see how we could be clearer. Moreover, even putting aside that these cases are distinguishable, there is a further point that the dissent ignores: Each precedent is subject to its own stare decisis analysis, and the factors that our doctrine instructs us to consider like reliance and workability are different for these cases than for our abortion jurisprudence.

Thomas said that in a concurring opinion where he disagreed with the rationale of the majority opinion. As far as I can tell he is the only one on the court with that opinion.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This is a ridiculous straw man. How is anyone being "forced" to do anything, other than to mind their own business?

I work at a state university. The policy here is that if someone continually does not refer to a persons preferred pronouns disciplinary action can be taken.

The US Navy public affairs officers said (Captain Hecht):
“intentional misuse of transgender service member pronouns is inappropriate and inconsistent with the Navy zero tolerance policy on harassment.
Violations of regulation or law, to include failure to comply with the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice], may be punishable by administrative or judicial action,”

Fairfax county schools in Virginia will suspend students for misgendering others.

People are being coerced to comply.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here is what was said in the opinion of the court: (Page 71 & 72, 2008 Term Opinions of the Court)

Finally, the dissent suggests that our decision calls into question Griswold, Eisenstadt, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Post, at 4–5, 26–27, n. 8. But we have stated unequivocally that “[n]othing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.” Supra, at 66. We have also explained why that is so: rights regarding contraception and same-sex relationships are inherently different from the right to abortion because the latter (as we have stressed) uniquely involves what Roe and Casey termed “potential life.” Roe, 410 U. S., at 150 (emphasis deleted); Casey, 505 U. S., at 852. Therefore, a right to abortion cannot be justified by a purported analogy to the rights recognized in those other cases or by “appeals to a broader right to autonomy.” Supra, at 32. It is hard to see how we could be clearer. Moreover, even putting aside that these cases are distinguishable, there is a further point that the dissent ignores: Each precedent is subject to its own stare decisis analysis, and the factors that our doctrine instructs us to consider like reliance and workability are different for these cases than for our abortion jurisprudence.

Thomas said that in a concurring opinion where he disagreed with the rationale of the majority opinion. As far as I can tell he is the only one on the court with that opinion.

Every member of every court (like all humans) changes his or her mind from time to time. After all, they all answered in their Senate confirmation hearings that it was their opinion that Roe v Wade was "settled law" and would uphold stare decisis should that come before them. Thomas, having brought it up in his concurring opinion, has opened that door, and such cases will soon -- with certainty -- be before the court.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What I'm hearing is that the LGs (and maybe the Bs), don't want to be in the same alphabet soup as the TQ+ crowd.

Having talked to a few Ls, I can see why!

There are going to some bigots in any large enough group. Some gay and bi people with transphobia is not news.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I work at a state university. The policy here is that if someone continually does not refer to a persons preferred pronouns disciplinary action can be taken.

The US Navy public affairs officers said (Captain Hecht):
“intentional misuse of transgender service member pronouns is inappropriate and inconsistent with the Navy zero tolerance policy on harassment.
Violations of regulation or law, to include failure to comply with the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice], may be punishable by administrative or judicial action,”

Fairfax county schools in Virginia will suspend students for misgendering others.

People are being coerced to comply.

Yes, sometimes people have to be forced to do the right thing. Why is this news?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I work at a state university. The policy here is that if someone continually does not refer to a persons preferred pronouns disciplinary action can be taken.

The US Navy public affairs officers said (Captain Hecht):
“intentional misuse of transgender service member pronouns is inappropriate and inconsistent with the Navy zero tolerance policy on harassment.
Violations of regulation or law, to include failure to comply with the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice], may be punishable by administrative or judicial action,”

Fairfax county schools in Virginia will suspend students for misgendering others.

People are being coerced to comply.

How is this any different to laws against harassment, bullying, intimidation or threats? Deliberately and repeatedly misgendering someone is a form of harassment, and harassment shouldn't be tolerated in educational or workplace environments.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm aware that repeated misgendering can constitute harassment, but I'm not aware of anyone's being jailed for this.

Bill C-16 passed in 2017, six years ago. Canada is a nation of over 38 million people. How many of them have been jailed for such an offense?

Well, there is this: B.C. father arrested, held in jail for repeatedly violating court orders over child's gender transition therapy:

"B.C. father arrested, held in jail for repeatedly violating court orders over child's gender transition therapy​

"He is alleged to have revealed information about his child's mental health, medical status or treatments, and gave information that could reveal the family's identity."

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well, there is this: B.C. father arrested, held in jail for repeatedly violating court orders over child's gender transition therapy:

"B.C. father arrested, held in jail for repeatedly violating court orders over child's gender transition therapy​

"He is alleged to have revealed information about his child's mental health, medical status or treatments, and gave information that could reveal the family's identity."

The article states he was arrested for violating court orders and revealing information he should have kept private, though, not for misgendering anyone.

 

[Father Heathen]

I work at a state university. The policy here is that if someone continually does not refer to a persons preferred pronouns disciplinary action can be taken.

The US Navy public affairs officers said (Captain Hecht):
“intentional misuse of transgender service member pronouns is inappropriate and inconsistent with the Navy zero tolerance policy on harassment.
Violations of regulation or law, to include failure to comply with the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice], may be punishable by administrative or judicial action,”

Fairfax county schools in Virginia will suspend students for misgendering others.

People are being coerced to comply.

Is it unusual to enforce respectful conduct within such institutions? Even if you don't accept it as valid, is it really such a struggle to humor them for the sake of politeness rather than go out of your way to misgender them out of petty spite?

 

[icehorse]

There are going to some bigots in any large enough group. Some gay and bi people with transphobia is not news.

Interesting that any deviation from the approved script is countered with cries of bigotry and phobia