Theists: What would a godless universe look like?

[DNB]

I'll tell you what. Go and read the Bible, starting at the beginning and reading straight through. Don't jump around. Just read it.

Anyone that can get through Chronicles II and still think that Yahweh is good has no concept of goodness as far as I can see.

You're telling me how to read the Bible - you can't even follow your own prescription by reading the Book in its entirety - enough love, compassion , mercy and forgiveness that God bestows upon His all of us.
Plus, you don't even understand anything that you read - God waited for them to repent, giving them ample and unwarranted opportunity to do so, and they all refused

 

[DNB]

Just not you it seems?

You don't appreciate my candor?
I'm talking to people who believe that the act of rape and kidnapping are not derived from a depraved spirit, but an intellectual miscalculation or neurological miswiring.
Or others who believe that a relationship with a dog, is as meaningful and fulfilling as that of a human.

Do you prefer that I react in a more delicate and understanding fashion - if they were 10 years old, that might be a practical option?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Where does morality come from, ...and don't say intellect or pragmatism

Most likely it evolved within groups of our ancestors - so as to enhance their survival value - given that we can detect the basis for such in other species that similarly tend to live in social groupings. And this then evolving into rules that then were passed on to aid survival. The fact that many species also punish others for infringements of their particular 'morality' also seems to indicate that morality is an evolved system of values.

 

[Brian2]

I have a genuine question for theists and it is not meant to be a trick in any way. There are many things that I would expect to see in a universe containing a benevolent, omnipotent, personal god that I don't see in this universe, which leads me to conclude that such a god is unlikely to exist. I'm curious as to what theists would expect to see in a godless universe, and how a godless universe would differ from one in which a god existed. What would you expect this universe to look like if no gods existed, and how would that be different from the current universe?

It sounds like you think that a benevolent, omnipotent, personal god is supposed to make sure no suffering and death happen and that we are all happy all the time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or something like that.
You seem to have forgotten mankind's fall and then God's work to bring us back to Him.
Maybe the current state of things on this planet is because of human wrong doing and God bringing us to a place of seeing that we cannot control things and need to turn to and trust in Him.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

open your eyes - it's called wisdom - a word and concept that is outside the atheist's vocabulary and comprehension

And another slur -- at a whole group, yet! Congratulations! Maybe one day you'll get all the way up to slagging the entire human race excepting only yourself. Won't that feel good, eh?

That aside, it truly is a pity that you suppose that anybody who doesn't imagine the things you imagine must -- by definition -- be inferior to you. I suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, they might be better at discernment.

 

[Polymath257]

Where does morality come from, ...and don't say intellect or pragmatism

Compassion.

 

[Polymath257]

I see, so the wickedness of rape or kidnapping is just relative - you're brilliant

But when it is done in the Old Testament it is ok? When God orders it it is ok?

 

[Polymath257]

Nonsense - just make up your mind, and be assertive about it - nothing worse than an indecisive or non committed atheist - don't insult God if you can't even feel confident as to whether He exists or not

Nonsense. Following the evidence honestly is never being wishy washy.

 

[Polymath257]

open your eyes - it's called wisdom - a word and concept that is outside the atheist's vocabulary and comprehension

And compassion seems to be outside of many theists vocabulary. Humility as well. Honesty as well.

 

[Polymath257]

You've never heard anyone say that they are a 'spiritual' person?
What do you suppose that means, and how did that notion enter one's mind who was created from stardust and protoplasm?

Of course I have. Usually it means that they either spend way to much time praying and do not doing anything useful OR it means that they are following some pleasant fantasy and ignoring reality.

 

[Polymath257]

You're telling me how to read the Bible - you can't even follow your own prescription by reading the Book in its entirety - enough love, compassion , mercy and forgiveness that God bestows upon His all of us.
Plus, you don't even understand anything that you read - God waited for them to repent, giving them ample and unwarranted opportunity to do so, and they all refused

I have read it in its entirety. It is morally appalling, repetitive, and full of propaganda. It is mostly fiction with a smattering of history and a lot of bad poetry.

Have you actually read it from cover to cover? Or have you only jumped around selecting versus you like?

 

[Polymath257]

It sounds like you think that a benevolent, omnipotent, personal god is supposed to make sure no suffering and death happen and that we are all happy all the time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or something like that.
You seem to have forgotten mankind's fall and then God's work to bring us back to Him.
Maybe the current state of things on this planet is because of human wrong doing and God bringing us to a place of seeing that we cannot control things and need to turn to and trust in Him.

Or maybe it is because theists always think they are right and cannot grasp that they commit great evil in the name of their God.

 

[Polymath257]

You don't appreciate my candor?
I'm talking to people who believe that the act of rape and kidnapping are not derived from a depraved spirit, but an intellectual miscalculation or neurological miswiring.

No, it is due to a lack of basic human compassion. Something many theists can’t seem to grasp.

Or others who believe that a relationship with a dog, is as meaningful and fulfilling as that of a human.

I’d prefer most dogs to most humans. Especially if the human is a fundamentalist theist.

Do you prefer that I react in a more delicate and understanding fashion - if they were 10 years old, that might be a practical option?

 

[Polymath257]

Someone has to know it - both can't be correct.
If you can't make up your mind or feel confident about your position, that's your problem

And basing beliefs on evidence as opposed to vague desires seems a good method.

I prefer to not make a conclusion until the evidence is conclusive. For the most part, that is why I don’t believe in deities. I’m sure Abraham’s religion is wrong. Some version of pantheism might be right. Some type of multiverse might be right.

 

[Little Dragon]

unfortunately, I'm sensing that this next statement will be above your head:
God gave us all life, and the ability to love and be loved, and enjoy all that He has to offer to those who love Him and love each other.

Do you usually think personal insult is the way to convince people? Or are you making a special effort in my case?
Keep your stinking God.
I don't need it.

 

[Little Dragon]

open your eyes - it's called wisdom - a word and concept that is outside the atheist's vocabulary and comprehension

I know a few words that are outside your vocabulary and comprehension. Like, civility, prudence, fairness, mindfulness, honesty, decency and many others, apparently.

 

[Little Dragon]

I'm talking to people who believe that the act of rape and kidnapping are not derived from a depraved spirit, but an intellectual miscalculation or neurological miswiring.

There is only one depraved spirit here...spouting out their bile and hate. Get thee behind me.

 

[Little Dragon]

I’d prefer most dogs to most humans. Especially if the human is a fundamentalist theist.

I agree, especially in this case. There are some humans in this world, that just want to spread their misery...
Such people I don't have time for. So I will probably up end up putting a certain poster on ignore. It's just pointless to discuss anything with a bad faith actor.

 

[Little Dragon]

Nonsense - just make up your mind, and be assertive about it - nothing worse than an indecisive or non committed atheist - don't insult God if you can't even feel confident as to whether He exists or not

Nothing worse than arrogance and conceit. It's vulgar. It's infantile.
Worse of all, it makes you less than popular among your peers.
Have you ever considered, that you are just a human being?
No better than any other. No more or less deserving of respect than any other.

You come to me and others here with insult and scarcely concealed contempt, what pains you my brother?
What fear lies underneath this hatred?

You express fear and hate. You do know that right?

Tell me or us about it...

 

[Ostronomos]

And another slur -- at a whole group, yet! Congratulations! Maybe one day you'll get all the way up to slagging the entire human race excepting only yourself. Won't that feel good, eh?

That aside, it truly is a pity that you suppose that anybody who doesn't imagine the things you imagine must -- by definition -- be inferior to you. I suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, they might be better at discernment.

You and other atheists on this forum are not above spouting slurs at theists. But unlike you I don't point fingers. If a theist uses a slur, it is because it is well-deserved. He is defending the righteous whereas atheism, like evil, is blind and beneath the level of anything remotely righteous.