Theists: What would a godless universe look like?

[Polymath257]

No one would do it, unless they believed in the supernatural, obviously.

Obviously wrong.

The earth's a cesspool ...which makes you part of the problem, if everything seems hunky dory to you.

The world is a cesspool partly because religion kept us ignorant and bigoted. Religion, as I see it, is part of the problem, not part of the solution. The Middle East is certainly not hunky dory. And the reason is religious nuts.

 

[Little Dragon]

The earth's a cesspool ...which makes you part of the problem, if everything seems hunky dory to you.

Such hatred for everything. I wonder why you bother to get up in the morning?

 

[Little Dragon]

The world is a cesspool partly because religion kept us ignorant and bigoted.

Certain religions, have certainly not made the world a better place. The monotheisms of Abrahamic tradition are in my view especially problematic. The rise of christian nationalism and islamic fundamentalism and modern zionism, are all severely problematic, they all cause so much pain. They are indifferent to suffering, they are hateful, they are plain wrong.

 

[Polymath257]

God exists, and He is holy - that's unanimous amongst theists.

Not actually. Some theists are polytheists. Some think the creator of the universe was an evil deity.

Those that are monotheists are in agreement that their imaginary friend is the bestest. But anything past that is up for grabs.

They all recognize the spiritual warfare that takes place in every human's mind.

Again, far from universal, although common in monotheist religions. Although often that is also a form of dualist (a good deity and an evil one).

So, again, not the sort of agreement that would be expected if there was actually something that they all witness.

Again, the comparison to color blindness is instructive. All color aware people agree that a green object is green, even though a color blind one doesn't see the difference with red.

They all agree that something cannot come from nothing.

That has nothing to do with a supernatural.

Each theist asserts that man is created in the image of God - spiritual endowment
They all accept both the teleological and cosmological arguments

Again, this is far from universal. It is, in fact, a derivation of Platonic and Aristotelian philosophy. Those theisms without that history don't hold to those doctrines.

Therefore, i have no idea what you're talking about in regard to lack of consistency?

Maybe you need to look at the variety of religious viewponts people have and have had. Even the Bible shows a change in views of what the main deity is like over time (did Jacob actually wrestle with God and win?).

 

[Polymath257]

Like I said: blind as a bat - voluntarily so

Or not blinded by confirmation bias. Look at it with a skeptical mind and see how it reads.

 

[Polymath257]

God never, ever promoted rape - marriage is not abuse

Do you really think that talking ‘wives’ that are prisoners of war is voluntary? That is nothing less than kidnapping and rape.

 

[Ostronomos]

Did your religion teach you that as well? I only ever read words like that from Abrahamic theists. How unfortunate to be burdened by so much negativity.

I described a good day and described the path to arranging one's world to maximize their number, and that's ignorance to you.

There are no demons in my world, which is not a cesspool. Those last comments are yet another of the unfortunate beliefs your religion saddles those adherents who will believe it with. Remember Pascal's Wager - that there's no cost to believing in his god if you're wrong? Pascal was wrong. You experience your world as a cesspool filled with demons in which nobody gets along and the happiness I described seems like "flaky nonsense" to you. My world is very different.

That's for believers to worry about, as well as towing the line on sin, avoiding hellfire and demons, and not offending your god. In the meantime, I'm anticipating a very nice day. I know. How naive and ignorant, right?

It is evil to be indifferent, blind and unintelligent to the suffering of oneself and others. Of course there may appear to be no demons in the matter you perceive around you, but that is not where demons are apparent. They are apparent in higher dimensions where if your mind were entangled with, you would sense their presence, as well as God's.

But unfortunately, appearances (like matter) can be deceiving. The world is an illusion. In 2017, scientists discovered that our universe is a hologram. This lends credence to my information/ matter proposal (further above, in bold). It is only the misinformation (which I consider to be evil) spread by atheists, that is the only evil being committed here.

So what if theists lack all the knowledge about a reality beyond their limited senses. At least they're not wrong in believing in one and only one God.

I am not claiming to know everything about God. But at least I know more than an atheist and most theists. Hence is why I consider myself a meta-theist. I have actually seen the extra-dimensional universe and am here to simply report my findings despite being met with resistance. I don't mean to insult anyone. I just want the truth to be understood by everyone. And the truth is that there is indeed a God that exists in the highest dimensions.

The higher dimension contains the separation, effecting the non-separation.

Yes, I know, and as I indicated, that's unfortunate.

 

[Ostronomos]

Out of everyone in this thread I am the only one who can lay claim to being the highest authority on the existence of God. Because I am the only one here who has access to the higher dimensions. The rest of you are living in confusion and illusion. You have my sympathies of course. But unfortunately I cannot be of any assistance at this time.

 

[Little Dragon]

Out of everyone in this thread I am the only one who can lay claim to being the highest authority on the existence of God. Because I am the only one here who has access to the higher dimensions. The rest of you are living in confusion and illusion. You have my sympathies of course. But unfortunately I cannot be of any assistance at this time.

Access to higher dimensions? You mean you can move through three dimensional objects, by moving above and over them in the 4th dimension?

I can do that too, after a few too many cocktails.

 

[Polymath257]

Access to higher dimensions? You mean you can move through three dimensional objects, by moving above and over them in the 4th dimension?

I can do that too, after a few too many cocktails.

I don’t think it was cocktails.

 

[DNB]

I was responding to your comment that "demons exist." Whether they do or do not, you can't make a case that whatever cesspool you're wallowing in is the work of demons. And since I've never, ever said "everything seems hunky dory" to me, the rest of your commentary is just gratuitous insult. In fact, I'm beginning to see that as something of a favourite with you, so perhaps we're beginning to discover the origins of that cesspool after all.

The earth's a cesspool, due to the fact that demon's exist.
Man's main concern in life is not about survival, as it is for all other creatures on earth - there are influences upon him that make him deny his rationality and succumb to greed, selfishness, hate, and lust - prevalent throughout the world, in every society, government and institution

 

[DNB]

Given how you appear to perceive the world -- and your God -- it's really, really hard to fathom why on earth you'd think yourself religious.

You feel no guilt of any of the problems in life?

 

[Kenny]

I have a genuine question for theists and it is not meant to be a trick in any way. There are many things that I would expect to see in a universe containing a benevolent, omnipotent, personal god that I don't see in this universe, which leads me to conclude that such a god is unlikely to exist. I'm curious as to what theists would expect to see in a godless universe, and how a godless universe would differ from one in which a god existed. What would you expect this universe to look like if no gods existed, and how would that be different from the current universe?

Mankind would not exists vs. mankind continues to exist

 

[DNB]

Did your religion teach you that as well? I only ever read words like that from Abrahamic theists. How unfortunate to be burdened by so much negativity.

The truth will set you free

I described a good day and described the path to arranging one's world to maximize their number, and that's ignorance to you.

Uber ignorance

There are no demons in my world, which is not a cesspool. Those last comments are yet another of the unfortunate beliefs your religion saddles those adherents who will believe it with. Remember Pascal's Wager - that there's no cost to believing in his god if you're wrong? Pascal was wrong. You experience your world as a cesspool filled with demons in which nobody gets along and the happiness I described seems like "flaky nonsense" to you. My world is very different.

Your world only exists in fairy tale stories - as we speak some young girl is being forced into the sex trade, sometimes by their own parents. A husband just got killed by their wife for the life insurance, a terrorist group just killed hundreds of civilians, a women was just raped, a drunk driver just killed a mother of three, a husband just cheated on his wife, a teacher just molested a student, a daughter just died of a drug overdose, etc....

....In the meantime, I'm anticipating a very nice day. I know. How naive and ignorant, right?

Uber ignorant

 

[DNB]

Given how you appear to perceive the world -- and your God -- it's really, really hard to fathom why on earth you'd think yourself religious.

You seem to have a rather inflated esteem of human beings, and an extremely deficient one of the transcendent God.

 

[DNB]

Obviously wrong.


The world is a cesspool partly because religion kept us ignorant and bigoted. Religion, as I see it, is part of the problem, not part of the solution. The Middle East is certainly not hunky dory. And the reason is religious nuts.

As always, you're misconstruing the evidence - you don't think that even a radical has enough sense to know that his ways only exacerbate destruction and pain? Or that a racist doesn't know that there's not an iota of viable rationale to justify his beliefs?
The influence upon both parties comes from the spiritual realms, that incite men to deny their intellect and succumb to their primitive instincts and passions.
Naive are those who cannot detect the devil in the schemes of men.

 

[DNB]

Such hatred for everything. I wonder why you bother to get up in the morning?

...just to read your posts - start the day off with a good laugh

 

[DNB]

Not actually. Some theists are polytheists. Some think the creator of the universe was an evil deity.

Those that are monotheists are in agreement that their imaginary friend is the bestest. But anything past that is up for grabs.

Again, far from universal, although common in monotheist religions. Although often that is also a form of dualist (a good deity and an evil one).

So, again, not the sort of agreement that would be expected if there was actually something that they all witness.

Again, the comparison to color blindness is instructive. All color aware people agree that a green object is green, even though a color blind one doesn't see the difference with red.

That has nothing to do with a supernatural.

of course it does - creation was a supernatural event

Again, this is far from universal. It is, in fact, a derivation of Platonic and Aristotelian philosophy. Those theisms without that history don't hold to those doctrines.

Maybe you need to look at the variety of religious viewponts people have and have had. Even the Bible shows a change in views of what the main deity is like over time (did Jacob actually wrestle with God and win?).

Main fundamentalist or evangelicals, hold to the tenets that I cited above - that's enough for a consensus - we can't control or speak for the fringe groups, or those that do not subscribe to the same fundaments as the monotheists.

 

[DNB]

Or not blinded by confirmation bias. Look at it with a skeptical mind and see how it reads.

You're telling me how to read the Bible: what the overarching principles are, what literary conventions are employed, who the authors were, what the history was, the two Covenants, the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings and Apostles, etc...

I'm the one that needs a skeptical mind in order to see your point of view????
You need some wisdom just to see the author's point of view.

 

[DNB]

Do you really think that talking ‘wives’ that are prisoners of war is voluntary? That is nothing less than kidnapping and rape.

Marriage is not abuse - no different than arrange marriages, basically