Theists: What would a godless universe look like?

[Little Dragon]

And there's the rub -- @DNB and his ilk cannot bring themselves to understand that humans come with all sorts of differences. That's way to scary for them, and brings with it the possibility that maybe they don't have the only truth, after all.

The idea of us all being relentless clones, all living the same lives and all doing the same things, IS my idea of hell.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I feel that you should be utterly ashamed of your ways - and the real crime is, outside of the act itself, is that you don't.
I cannot for the life of me understand how you remain so seemingly stoic in admitting to, and condoning, and thus promoting, such a decadent and lascivious lifestyle.
Most people would be mortified to commit the same acts that you have.
In my opinion, you appear to be rather hedonistic.

The real crime here, in my opinion, is judging and shaming someone else for doing something that hurts no one, but brings some love into their life.
Most people would be mortified to speak to another human being in such a way.

 

[Little Dragon]

The real crime here, in my opinion, is judging and shaming someone else for doing something that hurts no one, but brings some love into their life.
Most people would be mortified to speak to another human being in such a way.

If I was to say it doesn't upset me at all. I'd be lying. Since, I hurt no one, quite the opposite in fact, in that context.
However, I've come across this sort of thing more than once before online and in real life, and if I am going to be honest about this sort of thing, then I have to expect some comeback on a public forum.
If he knew me, as an individual then perhaps he and others like him, would find it easier to see beyond the fact I like both men and women in a physical sense, if they are my type, something which has no bearing on my character or morality.
I feel a mixture of pity and annoyance, when I read posts like DNBs.

 

[Little Dragon]

@DNB

I dedicate a song to you, one an old BF of mine, a wonderful guy, used to say should be my theme tune.
I want you to know, that there is a rainbow spectrum of people out there and always has been, and always will be.

 

[Valjean]

Atheists say God does not exist, not, maybe God exists or doesn't exist. They are absolutely sure God does not exist but they have not explored even .1% of the universe so how would they know?

No, "atheists," per se, say nothing of the sort. We say that there is no or insufficient evidence that they exist, so that, logically, the reasonable position would be to withhold belief till evidence comes to light. We lack belief for the same reason you lack belief in Thor or leprechauns -- lack of evidence.
A soon as theists meet their burden of proof, and produce empirical evidence, we will believe.

People believe what they want to believe, that's why. Atheists think, if God is a loving God then how come I didn't get the toy I wanted one Christmas? You didn't get the toy you wanted one Christmas because your parents were bad people, not because God did not exist.

No, that's not the position of most atheists. That's a silly, thoughtless and emotional position.
I think you're echoing the claims of some fundamentalists who are unfamiliar with the intellectual underpinnings of atheism.

Why would a godless universe not exist? Atheists and scientists think that there is a grand unified theory of everything, basically math and theory that explains how the universe formed itself without a supreme being. There is no such thing because that is impossible.

There is no Grand Unified Theory because one has not yet achieved empirical support, just as any other scientific theory was just hypothetical before evidence emerged and was tested.

There is no such thing because that is impossible.

Please explain why, and why a claim of divine magic is possible.

Not so long ago there was no theory of relativity, for the same reason. Something not yet explained does not equal "Goddidit!" Moreover, Goddidit! is a claim of agency, not an explanation, and, unlike the scientific hypotheses, has virtually NO objective supporting evidence.

You claim physics and chemistry to be impossible. I claim magic to be untenable. Which position is more reasonable?

 

[Valjean]

What would a godless universe look like?

A godless universe would look just like the one we see.

Considering that God is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, and that He, who is all that exists and has manifested himself as this living universal body, a godless universe, could not exist.

That's an unsupported premise. Why should it be considered with no evidence?

 

[InChrist]

Yes, we (meaning the non-Christians you appear to be proselytizing) understand that is what you and some other Christians genuinely believe based on your preferred version of Christianity, but it is clearly not what we believe. I don't think that any of these Christian beliefs should be stated as if they are definitive facts, because they are not. Finally, I would go to church if I wanted to hear Christians preach and proselytize, and this thread (as well as other threads on RF) is obviously not a church pulpit. I say this because your declaration of your personal Christian beliefs is void of "I believe" and "in my opinion" and is stated as if they are a definitive truth. However, I don't accept your beliefs as a definitive truth. I don't accept your personal beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible. The threat of hell doesn't scare me either. I see it as nothing more than fearmongering, and it is as convincing as if I were to threaten you with the wrath of other gods. And while I can't speak for @Little Dragon, it appears to me, based on his responses, that he feels the same.

I started my post off immediately with;
“I think “. This is a religious forum, by the way. If you don’t want to read the thoughts of Christians…don’t. My post is no more proselytizing or fear mongering than you sharing your hostile thoughts against Christianity to get others on board with you.

 

[InChrist]

You started your post with, "I think if you truly understood, you wouldn’t joke, nor have any desire to be in hell."

And then, you continued with: "Hell is awful. It is a place with the absence of God, completely void of God’s presence and provision. There is no breathable air in hell… because God is the breath of life. There is no love there… God is the source of Love. There is only darkness there… God is the Light. There is no comfort there…God is the Comforter. There is no peace… because Jesus is the Prince of peace."

You did not specify that you think hell is awful, a place with the absence of God and completely void of God’s presence and provision. You did not specify that you think that there is no breathable air in hell because you believe that God is the breath of life. You did not specify that you think there is no love there or that you believe God is the source of love. You did not specify that you think there is only darkness there, that God is the light, that there is no comfort there, or that you believe that God is the comforter. Finally, you did not specify that it is your personal belief that there is no peace because you believe Jesus is the Prince of Peace. But you did specify that you think that if @Little Dragon truly understood, he wouldn't joke or have any desire to be in hell.

Well, it appears you fully understood I was expressing my thoughts and beliefs, without me using redundant and repetitive language. To quote you…

“However, I don't accept your beliefs as a definitive truth. I don't accept your personal beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Bible.”

I’m sure Little Dragon is/was capable of distinguishing that also. Are you his mother or lawyer, maybe here to help him?

 

[DNB]

You really do make the most asinine pronouncements. HEAR THIS -- I HAVE NOT BEEN FACE TO FACE WITH ANY "GOD." There, are you clear? Can your washed brain absorb that?

I am accountable only to me for what I have done -- or to the law or those I might have harmed if I have done wrong. The law has no hold on me because I have not broken any, and if I have harmed others, I have said "sorry." So you can keep your scurrilous comments about my "ingratitude and contempt" to yourself, thank you very much. If you are what Christianity is all about, I'm very, very glad to have avoided it. I prefer being a good person to a "righteous bigot."

Again, I highly question your perception and comprehension of righteousness.

 

[Little Dragon]

Good. I'm glad to hear that. I was a devout Christian for thirty years, as well as an evangelical team leader and street preacher, so I don't believe it when a Christian tells me that they're not trying to preach and proselytize whenever they openly discuss their belief in hell with unbelievers like you and me.

I don't mind at all if the intent is benign. I can tolerate that kind of attempt to proselytize. It's the more personal and judgy attitude, I find objectionable.

 

[DNB]

Humanists turn to their consciences to determine right and wrong. I'm not interested in what your religion teaches. Where its values disagree with mine, I'll go with mine.

And it seems to me that most of the people you are disagreeing with here are moral, upright people following their own consciences and deciding for themselves which judgments and acts cause harm, and mostly avoiding harming themselves or others and leading happy, productive lives. They don't want or need your advice. It doesn't seem to be making you happy.

And there it is. One value of atheism is freedom from the bondage of religious doctrine like this.

Those are YOUR tactics. I find what this religion does to its most zealous adherents perverse, corrupt, and "wicked," and you will use such language against that judgment.

You just wrote, "I sin all the time, in the most vile and perverse ways. I feel that I am wretched and that I am in dire need of a saviour." That other poster doesn't want or need your help, nor a savior. You seem to think YOU need help, so how are you going to help anybody else by dragging them into a similar mental state?

That's for you and others willing to believe what the priests and their book have told them to worry about.

"To the philosophy of atheism belongs the credit of robbing death of its horror and its terror. It brought about the abolition of Hell." - Joseph Lewis

And this is how you want to help him? Isn't it you that should be ashamed of your ways? Maybe you are.

Once again, shame at being who one is is for the zealous Christian to experience, not him. He is free from the bonds of that religion, which has taught you self-loathing and would do the same to him were he to accept it.

He will judge himself by his own standards, not yours, and will likely continue to learn through trial-and-error how he wants to live and what kind of a person he wants to be. And he has every chance of living a satisfying and constructive life outside of your religion. I have. Your warnings that living in defiance of your god will lead to ruin and that happiness comes from submitting to it fall on deaf ears here. I've already falsified that claim. And so have you.

This is from atheist firebrand Pat Condell:

"It must be quite galling for religious people to see atheists like me going about their business without a shred of guilt or self-loathing, and not in the least inclined to pray or to do penance of any kind, and not in the slightest bit worried about any form of eternal punishment. I have to admit if I was religious, I'd probably think to myself: "How come I've got all this weight on my shoulders while these bums are getting a free ride?"

Stardust and protoplasm do not legislate morality; spirits do.

 

[Little Dragon]

I’m sure Little Dragon is/was capable of distinguishing that also. Are you his mother or lawyer, maybe here to help him?

I need help with grammar sometimes. I was a poor english student. I thought grammar was optional.

 

[DNB]

Not at all ashamed. In fact, I am quite proud of how popular I can be with the guys. I am after all, rather pretty, for a guy, even if I do say so myself.
Why would anyone be mortified? Unless, they had been taught to hate their own humanity and sexual nature and to perceive sex as shameful and or dirty. Since birth.
I was not. My mother encouraged me to bring my boyfriends home when I was but a teenager. She'd make them very welcome. My dad not so much. He was traditional and conservative, like most Russian men of his generation.
I love a bit of decadence and hedonism, but in moderation of course. As always!
If I didn't enjoy sleeping with men or women, I wouldn't do it. If that makes me a disgusting **** or whatever, in the eyes of others, like you. Good, all the better. I thrive on such things. I don't mind in the slightest, if my choices, upset others. They need to examine WHY that is so. Without vomiting up bible/holy book verse.
You need to chill out my friend. Maybe understand that not everyone is like you.

I could barely read your post, I found it to be utterly profane and despicable, seriously.

 

[Little Dragon]

I highly question your perception and comprehension of righteousness

Ditto.

"Let love be the law, the whole of the law". That's my definition of righteousness, one I seldom live up to.

 

[Little Dragon]

I could barely read your post, I found it to be utterly profane and despicable, seriously.

Thank you.

 

[Little Dragon]

I could barely read your post,

Is this font size any better?

 

[DNB]

The real crime here, in my opinion, is judging and shaming someone else for doing something that hurts no one, but brings some love into their life.
Most people would be mortified to speak to another human being in such a way.

Your reasoning and oblivion is shameful.

 

[DNB]

@DNB

I dedicate a song to you, one an old BF of mine, a wonderful guy, used to say should be my theme tune.
I want you to know, that there is a rainbow spectrum of people out there and always has been, and always will be.

Won't waste my time - you're beginning to freak me out, like seriously

 

[Little Dragon]

@Little Dragon
The whole lot of you, to me, sound sick in the head, like seriously. Utterly disgusting, depraved, hedonistic and perverse.

No one is forcing you to sleep with anyone you don't want to. Why worry about what I get up to behind closed doors with consenting adults?
It's not your concern, it doesn't effect you. Why so personal?

 

[DNB]

Ditto.

"Let love be the law, the whole of the law". That's my definition of righteousness, one I seldom live up to.

LOVE DOES NOT COME FROM STARDUST AND PROTOPLASM - You don't even love the author of love.
So what in the world are you even talking about *Mod edit*?