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Theology is Falsifiable, thus, - Scientific.

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Actually many religious beliefs do not amount to much more than human opinions. What you are citing above does not make any sense concerning law and medicine, particularly medicine. The knowledge and practice of medicine is based science, and not opinions.
Take the actual World situation with the so called "covid-19". You have almost a medical and political opinion for every country because the problem isn´t based on science but on medical statistic guessworks in WHO which have caused irrational fear all over the places.

The standing practice in this situation is "to find a new vaccine" which is too late and too uotdated when a new virus arrives next year and so on and so on, because vira mutates.

If medical science really have understood this natural law, they should have told people to increase their immunity by different means and admit that their medical approach on bacteria and vira is nothing more but The Emperors New Clothes.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The standing practice in this situation is "to find a new vaccine" which is too late and too uotdated when a new virus arrives next year and so on and so on, because vira mutates.
In a great many cases, even though virus mutate, and inoculation from one form often helps with the next form. I can use the various forms of "flu" as an example of that.

If medical science really have understood this natural law, they should have told people to increase their immunity by different means and admit that their medical approach on bacteria and vira is nothing more but The Emperors New Clothes.
Natural preparation and remedies is all fine & dandy, but modern medicine also has it's place. Back 45 years ago, it was steroids that literally kept me alive in assisting me defeat an autoimmune (allergy) disorder that was running out of control to the point of shortly ending my life.

We need to be careful with either/or dichotomies because putting all our eggs in one basket can sometimes be disastrous.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
In a great many cases, even though virus mutate, and inoculation from one form often helps with the next form. I can use the various forms of "flu" as an example of that.
Correct - And I even take the so called covid-19 as a flu infection, even though as a severe one.
We need to be careful with either/or dichotomies because putting all our eggs in one basket can sometimes be disastrous.
I agree in this - and my example above was specifically regarding the "covid-19" problematics.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
One of the names of God is the God of gaps. Therefore, having eliminated the main gaps (for example, describing the Big Bang completely), the Scientists falsify Theology and All Religions. But this means that (according to the Popper Falsifiability Criterion) Theology and Religion is Science.

What are your thoughts?

Is Science the project to discredit Religion?

exchemist: ""God of the Gaps" was a phrase invented by Prof. Charles Coulson, whose lectures on maths for chemists I attended in my first year at university. As well as Prof of Theoretical Chemistry, he was also a Methodist lay preacher and author."

Are you joking? Even Big Bang itself is not falsifiable. You need something repeatable to humans in order to be falsifiable. History is not falsifiable because it doesn't repeat. While the encounters of God by humans fall into the category of history, instead of a falsifiable science.

If you call this a gap, the gap is much larger than you can imagine.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Skepticism masquerades as knowledge, just like the bible says. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light 2 Corinthians 11:14
 

gnostic

The Lost One
One of the names of God is the God of gaps. Therefore, having eliminated the main gaps (for example, describing the Big Bang completely), the Scientists falsify Theology and All Religions. But this means that (according to the Popper Falsifiability Criterion) Theology and Religion is Science.

What are your thoughts?

Is Science the project to discredit Religion?

exchemist: ""God of the Gaps" was a phrase invented by Prof. Charles Coulson, whose lectures on maths for chemists I attended in my first year at university. As well as Prof of Theoretical Chemistry, he was also a Methodist lay preacher and author."

Falsifiability is about the potential of any statement be refuted...or that can be “potentially” tested.

Being “tested” mean being able to observe/detect, being able to quantify or count it (for example, for statistical purposes and probabilities), to being able to measure the evidence, compare evidence against each other, and so on.

For religions to be falsifiable, then the god or gods must be observable/detectable, countable, measurable, refutable (testable), etc.

A god that is invisible, isn’t observable, so you wouldn’t be able measure god too. This would make religion, not falsifiable, therefore not scientific.

A god where you cannot measure god in any way, eg measure mass, dimensions, energy, forces, etc, make religion not falsifiable, hence not scientific.

God or gods are not falsifiable, therefore the religions are not falsifiable.

If god was responsible for the Big Bang, as an “agent” that created the universe, then verifiable evidence are needed for that “agent”.

Some things in life, in nature, are not immediately observable, so you have device that can detect and measure it. For instance, we cannot see electricity normally, but we can use device like multimeters to detect electricity and to measure electric current, voltage, power, energy, etc. You can also find the source of electricity, eg battery, generator, the appliance’s power cord being plugged into power wall socket, etc.

Even though you might not “see” electricity, you can feel it, and you can detect it and measure it, and you would know there are sources for electricity.

You cannot do that with gods, which make gods not falsifiable, which people believing in gods and follow such and such religions, not falsifiable, because there are no ways possible to observe, measure and test the gods.

In physical or natural sciences, the explanatory models (eg hypothesis or theory) tried to explain WHAT the phenomena is and HOW does it work. There is no WHO.

The only times science required investigation of the WHO, is in social sciences, like in psychology, anthropology, archaeology, political science, laws, etc.

Social sciences are different from natural sciences (physical sciences and life sciences). Falsifiability, Scientific Method and Peer Review are not very important in social sciences, not in the same ways with physics, chemistry, Earth science, astronomy, and biology.

In your OP, regarding to the Big Bang cosmology, there is no agent, so no WHO. Theology isn’t science, because the subject matters aren’t falsifiable.

Subjects like, gods, angels, demons, spirits, souls, resurrection, reincarnation, heavens and hells, divine miracles, etc, are all not falsifiable.
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Faith is believing something your intellect would normally reject.
This could well regard religious faith in dogmatic beliefs, but it also occurs in cosmological science. Then a faith in something is just called "a theory" until it is proven and tested beyond any doubts.
 

Yazata

Active Member
Faith is believing something your intellect would normally reject.

I'd put it differently. Faith is trust in conclusions that haven't been justified with 100% certainty.

In reality, we know next to nothing with absolute certainty, such that it's impossible for our belief to be false. Yet we blunder ahead with our lives anyway.

Science is built atop belief in induction, which still lacks suitable justification. Physicists almost worship mathematics, the hieroglyphs that they scrawl on their chalkboards, without being able to explain quite what mathematics is or how humans know about it. We have faith every time we take a step that the law of gravity hasn't suddenly been repealed. We trust our senses while driving down the road, despite knowing full well that our senses can sometimes deceive us.

A lot of the work in formal epistemology these days is concerned with trying to give these kind of ideas a probabilistic foundation. Hence all the Bayesianism that one sees so much in the literature.

I most emphatically don't want to equate faith with irrationality. Faith is part of normal human cognition and we couldn't live our lives without it. We constantly find ourselves thrust into situations where we have to commit ourselves and take action based on incomplete and perhaps not totally reliable information. That's been true ever since our paleolithic ancestors had to find food and escape predators.

Having said that, I do agree with the atheists that some religious believers do sometimes abuse it, treating it as a license to believe anything whatsoever. That indeed can drift over into irrationality.
 
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Yazata

Active Member
Skepticism is the opposite of faith

Yes, I agree with that. Skepticism is focusing on the possibility of error, and asking 'how can we be certain that we aren't making a mistake now'? While faith is committing ourselves and taking action even in the face of the possibility that we might be wrong.

and is terminal

It is when is is applied to all knowledge whatsoever. If we can never escape the possibility of error, the global-skeptic tries to argue that we can never know anything, that knowledge is impossible for human beings. That is obviously exceedingly corrosive to human cognition.

and if not that its the power of the anti-Christ.

I'm not a Christian and the "anti-Christ" imagery isn't part of my thinking. So I'm not going to agree with that one.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree with that. Skepticism is focusing on the possibility of error, and asking 'how can we be certain that we aren't making a mistake now'? While faith is committing ourselves and taking action even in the face of the possibility that we might be wrong.



It is when is is applied to all knowledge whatsoever. If we can never escape the possibility of error, the global-skeptic tries to argue that we can never know anything, that knowledge is impossible for human beings. That is obviously exceedingly corrosive to human cognition.



I'm not a Christian and the "anti-Christ" imagery isn't part of my thinking. So I'm not going to agree with that one.

Why be skeptical if belief can detect the truth, and know when I'm being lied to?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
No, by the evidence. Far too many claim to know the 'Truth' making diverse conflicting claims as to what 'Truth' claims are. Thank goodness science does not make any 'Truth' claims.
"Thank goodness science does not make any 'Truth' claims."

It is right.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
God of the gaps is not the name of a god. It is the name of a logical fallacy.

I have no idea how you would use science to disprove all proposed gods. You might use it to disprove some of the claims about the gods, but not necessarily the gods themselves. That does not make the existence of any of those gods true, though. It is just an affirmation that they are unfalsifiable claims.
Science has never, I understand, taken up the issue of existence or non-existence of any god/s as it is a religious issue, not an issue of science. Right,please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The everyday layman armchair scientist don't count for much or anything of substance

Actually no, this is not true of any ot the sciences, including the sciences of cosmology where there is a healthy progressive develop of knowledge with healthy disagreement, and the acknowledgement that there are many things that we do not know.

Nothing in science is the whole truth.
"Nothing in science is the whole truth"

It is right.
Regards
 
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