There are no errors in the Qur'an

[Tumah]

Tumah, here's another passage, from your own scripture, you might like to explain. Isaiah 61: 1,'The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me;' Who is 'me'?

The person who is writing the book, Isaiah.

 

[Notanumber]

The Quran is one big error right from the first word through to the last.

There would not be as much trouble in the world and we would all be a lot safer now if it had never been written.

 

[Baroodi]

Nobel Quran talks about things more than 15 centuries ago and modern science is coming now to give evidence proofing the exactitude of Quran. This is more than enough to proof the divine source of this fantastic book giving a clear road map to salvage the humanity from all types of delirium

 

[Shad]

Nobel Quran talks about things more than 15 centuries ago and modern science is coming now to give evidence proofing the exactitude of Quran. This is more than enough to proof the divine source of this fantastic book giving a clear road map to salvage the humanity from all types of delirium

All of which are easily refutable claims.

 

[Kirran]

Nobel Quran talks about things more than 15 centuries ago and modern science is coming now to give evidence proofing the exactitude of Quran. This is more than enough to proof the divine source of this fantastic book giving a clear road map to salvage the humanity from all types of delirium

People say the same about the Vedas! And the Bible!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Again, it doesn't say 'books'.
Are you suggesting that any attempt to understand the scriptures is doomed to failure? Then why would God inspire them in the first place?

The Bible says that not me. Note there are words on the outside and within. The words on the outside are the clear things that need no interpretation. But the words within require a Messiah to unseal.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Sure.

My G-d is the One, indivisible, body-less, Creator of the world, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who gave Moses the Written and Oral Torah on Mt. Sinai.

Those verses are speaking about the messiah. Whereas previously in Eze. 34, G-d acts as the Shepherd, in verse 23 He hands the shepherding over to the messiah. Presumably because as other messianic prophecies foretell, there will be peace and happiness in the world and we will be redeemed from our exile. So we won't need G-d's special Divine providence that the previous 15 verses speak about anymore. Then it will just be a matter of keeping the nation on the correct track, which is what 37:24 explains.

Yes. I agree it is speaking about the Messiah.

 

[Tumah]

Yes. I agree it is speaking about the Messiah.

Thanks for confirming that the verse says what its clearly speaking about.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Ok, Tumah. Let me be clear. In both these passages, David refers to the everlasting Messiah, not the temporal king David. This everlasting Messiah will be 'set up' by G-d (Exek. 34:23). In Ezekiel 37:24, it states that there will be 'one shepherd' over 'all of them' i.e. the new Israel that has been resurrected from the dead (verses 11-13).
In Ezekiel 37:21 it also says,'Thus said the Lord GOD: I am going to take the Israelite people from among the nations they have gone to, and gather them from every quarter, and bring them to their own land'
Do you believe that this process has already started, and that Israel now awaits the individual Messiah to be set up as their king and prince?
How do you distinguish the people of the ten tribes? Will they appear as Jews?

 

[Tumah]

If you don't quote me or send me a shout out (@ before my name) I won't necessarily know that you responded to me on the thread.

Ok, Tumah. Let me be clear. In both these passages, David refers to the everlasting Messiah, not the temporal king David. This everlasting Messiah will be 'set up' by G-d (Exek. 34:23).

I don't see what you really added anything to what I said...

In Ezekiel 37:24, it states that there will be 'one shepherd' over 'all of them' i.e. the new Israel that has been resurrected from the dead (verses 11-13).

The verse does not say "new Israel", nor does it imply that 'Israel' will be a different people. The resurrection that Ezekiel performed is a sign to the resurrection of the Jews in the future (v. 12). Its the same Jews. Now they are dead, then they will not be.

In Ezekiel 37:21 it also says,'Thus said the Lord GOD: I am going to take the Israelite people from among the nations they have gone to, and gather them from every quarter, and bring them to their own land'
Do you believe that this process has already started, and that Israel now awaits the individual Messiah to be set up as their king and prince?

Its generally accepted that this process has already started.
How do you distinguish the people of the ten tribes?[/QUOTE]
We don't distinguish them. When the time will come, Elijah and the messiah will take care of that. For now, aside from priests and Levites, its unimportant which tribe the rest of us are from.

Will they appear as Jews?

What does that mean? Will they have big noses? They are Jews already. How does one "appear as a Jew"?

 

[Tumah]

What in the world? How did this even get into Qur'anic debates??

 

[Redemptionsong]

I've started a new thread.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Bible says that not me. Note there are words on the outside and within. The words on the outside are the clear things that need no interpretation. But the words within require a Messiah to unseal.

That Messiah, Jesus Christ, has already come to offer salvation. When he comes again, it will be to judge.

What does the Qur'an teach about sin and salvation?

 

[loverofhumanity]

That Messiah, Jesus Christ, has already come to offer salvation. When he comes again, it will be to judge.

What does the Qur'an teach about sin and salvation?

There are laws in both the Bible and Quran which are expected to be obeyed by both Christians and Muslims and to disobey them is considered sin.

With regards to salvation.

Unless God decrees otherwise, salvation to both Christian and Muslim are denied until they accept all their scriptures.

Christians have mostly rejected the Bible as Muslims have the Quran and they both follow only blind imitations of their leaders not what they are told to believe by Christ and Muhammad.

Unfortunately both Christianity and Islam have lost their spiritual light and have ceased to guide humanity because they have not remained faithful to their Covenant.

Christ made a Covenant with His followers. Later however Christians turned away from Christ and now follow blindly, religious leaders who lead them away from Christ. Christians are no longer saved. Muslims too follow not God anymore but their false teachers who lie to them about no more Prophets to come.

There is no salvation currently for Christians or Muslims until they can break away from their false beliefs and leaders who lead them astray.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There are laws in both the Bible and Quran which are expected to be obeyed by both Christians and Muslims and to disobey them is considered sin.

With regards to salvation.

Unless God decrees otherwise, salvation to both Christian and Muslim are denied until they accept all their scriptures.

Christians have mostly rejected the Bible as Muslims have the Quran and they both follow only blind imitations of their leaders not what they are told to believe by Christ and Muhammad.

Unfortunately both Christianity and Islam have lost their spiritual light and have ceased to guide humanity because they have not remained faithful to their Covenant.

Christ made a Covenant with His followers. Later however Christians turned away from Christ and now follow blindly, religious leaders who lead them away from Christ. Christians are no longer saved. Muslims too follow not God anymore but their false teachers who lie to them about no more Prophets to come.

There is no salvation currently for Christians or Muslims until they can break away from their false beliefs and leaders who lead them astray.

Surely, the starting point is that each of us is captain of our own soul. We each have a responsibiity to search for the truth and to follow that Truth as best we can. But what if none of us is able to attain the standards set by God? The greatest of the Old Testament prophets, Moses, committed murder and had shortcomings. Muhammad, likewise, is shown to have had weaknesses.

I think it has little to do with false beliefs and leaders. That takes away the responsibility each individual has for their own salvation.

It says in Philippians 2:12, 'Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.'

 

[loverofhumanity]

Surely, the starting point is that each of us is captain of our own soul. We each have a responsibiity to search for the truth and to follow that Truth as best we can. But what if none of us is able to attain the standards set by God? The greatest of the Old Testament prophets, Moses, committed murder and had shortcomings. Muhammad, likewise, is shown to have had weaknesses.

I think it has little to do with false beliefs and leaders. That takes away the responsibility each individual has for their own salvation.

It says in Philippians 2:12, 'Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.'

I think it's important to be sensible with religion and not fanatical and just try and be good in general. My understanding is if we read the scriptures with a pure motive we will always seek to do what is good. But it's very important we read without the influence of others so we can form our own view and not blindly copy others.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I think it's important to be sensible with religion and not fanatical and just try and be good in general. My understanding is if we read the scriptures with a pure motive we will always seek to do what is good. But it's very important we read without the influence of others so we can form our own view and not blindly copy others.

The thing is, when I read the New Testament I don't find that it tells me about a new religion. It tells me about an old religion, the Mosaic Law, and it tells me about a Saviour of all mankind. I don't believe that Jesus, who lived solely under law until he was thirty, came to establish a religion called Christianity. The only laws that he established were positive commandments; namely, to love God and love your neighbour. Nor were these new. What was new was the indwelling spirit of grace that accompanied faith in the Saviour. Only through Jesus' death and resurrection was this spirit to become freely available to us all.

No other man can provide this salvation. Nor is it correct to call him a man only, for he was the LORD.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The thing is, when I read the New Testament I don't find that it tells me about a new religion. It tells me about an old religion, the Mosaic Law, and it tells me about a Saviour of all mankind. I don't believe that Jesus, who lived solely under law until he was thirty, came to establish a religion called Christianity. The only laws that he established were positive commandments; namely, to love God and love your neighbour. Nor were these new. What was new was the indwelling spirit of grace that accompanied faith in the Saviour. Only through Jesus' death and resurrection was this spirit to become freely available to us all.

No other man can provide this salvation. Nor is it correct to call him a man only, for he was the LORD.

I have a beautiful tribute paid to Christ by Baha'u'llah and also one paid to Muhammad.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I have a beautiful tribute paid to Christ by Baha'u'llah and also one paid to Muhammad.

There's a really interesting passage in Luke. It says this, 'And a certain ruler asked him [Jesus], saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is God.'

Think about this a second. If Jesus was a man only, he could not have been called good. It would have been wrong to call a man good, because only God is good. So does this mean that Jesus was not good? No. Jesus just wanted to pose the question; 'Why callest THOU me good?'
I am happy to call Jesus good, because I believe he came from God. I believe that as the Son of God he was the image of God. I believe that as the resurrected Lord, he is worthy of worship.
How far removed am I NOW from the faith taught by Muhammad! Allah has no partner! Allah has no Son! God cannot come to earth!
You cannot carry on the lie that the Qur'an and the Bible are compatible. It's simply not true. At some point in time you are going to have to face the question posed by Jesus; 'But whom say ye that I am?'

 

[Redemptionsong]

It's a simple message really.

Jesus loves you. He wants to save you.