OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
Lol, you're using English grammar rules and applying them to Qur'anic verses which are written in Arabic. You can't do that man!
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Lol, you're using English grammar rules and applying them to Qur'anic verses which are written in Arabic. You can't do that man!
The Qur'an is the divine instruction manual for mankind
There are no errors as it is divine.
Pick out one error and i am ready to convert today.
My daughter wrote my wife a lovely birthday card. It has no errors, and speaks of unbounding love. I'm gonna stick with that as my instruction manual.
Shad
Veteran Member
Its not rules for English as it is found in most languages... Besides you are using English translation thus English is involved anyways. Beside Arabic does have subject and predicate structures in sentences.....
http://arabic.desert-sky.net/g_intro.html
I am a weak atheist. Is both the Bible and the Qur'an the word of the same god and are they both then perfect according to you?
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I find it in error to encourage if not mandate the beating of women or regulating them to second class humans . . . explain these horrific verses.
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.
Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.
Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).
OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
The site I linked already explains through the Arabic grammar why you're wrong. The sun didn't set into anything.
Shad
Veteran Member
Which explained nothing of value and does nothing to resolve the issue. Also it has zero sources.
OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
It explains everything of value, and it not need provide sources because it is speaking of basic Arabic grammar rules. I don't need to cite a source to prove " () " are parentheses or " stars " is the plural form of " star ".
You're being ridiculous here. If you care, you can look up all the words and grammar rules yourself and see if the site is right or wrong. The page clearly proved that the verse is not speaking of a place, it's speaking of a time of day.
Shad
Veteran Member
No it doesn't at it misses the point. The issue is not about the time of the setting sun, this is blatantly obvious that the sun setting is a time reference, it is the spring which is question. However it misses the point of the sun setting in a pool/spring. It misses the basic Arabic rules of subject and predicte, which I pointed out already, thus never resolved the issue I was talking about. The write is not even aware of the Alexander Legend which the Quran used in part which has the same setting of the sun in water.
You're being ridiculous here. If you care, you can look up all the words and grammar rules yourself and see if the site is right or wrong. The page clearly proved that the verse is not speaking of a place, it's speaking of a time of day.[/QUOTE]
Quran 50:39 and 20:130 actually use ila to relate to the setting of the sun as a time so it is not required for a location as your articles claims. http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(72:8:4) shows that the supposed female pronoun is not used but it is http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(72:8:4).
http://arabic.tripod.com/Pronouns2.htm
The article is not convincing if one puts in less than 10 mins of looking up lexicons and other verses. The Quran itself refuted the article as does the Alexander Legend.
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Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
The Qur'an is the divine instruction manual for mankind
There are no errors as it is divine.
Pick out one error and i am ready to convert today.
As a Baha'i I fully agree. The Quran is the infallible Word of God for us Baha'is.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Jabar and loverofhumanity, are you so easily hoodwinked and deceived? You find it easier to believe in one book recited by one man over 23 years than you do in 66 books revealed over 1500 years by more than 40 different writers!
The Bible is a perfect weave of prophecy and history that reveals a truth that one man could not make up! Only one God could sustain such a truth.
Your arguments rely upon trying to convince others that the Bible is corrupted, yet, when pushed to provide evidence of such corruption, you cannot provide it.
Think about it. If Muhammad does not appear in the Bible then his own 'prophecy' must be questioned. How could the final and greatest prophet, so-called, not appear in the Bible, which covers time from creation to the end of the present heaven and earth?
Even the message of the Qur'an is out-dated. It is religion based on law and justice without the grace of God. A man must prove himself worthy by his works. But, as we know from the Bible, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So according to Islam, we must all perish in our sin. Why would an all-good God even consider resurrecting a sinful man? The Bible is quite right when it says that 'the wages of sin is DEATH'.
The Qur'an even claims that Jesus was not crucified. Yet Jesus himself said that he had to die! Without the blood of Christ there is no redemption.
Instead of judging the Bible by the Qur'an, you should judge the Qur'an according to the light of the Bible!
The Bible is a perfect weave of prophecy and history that reveals a truth that one man could not make up! Only one God could sustain such a truth.
Your arguments rely upon trying to convince others that the Bible is corrupted, yet, when pushed to provide evidence of such corruption, you cannot provide it.
Think about it. If Muhammad does not appear in the Bible then his own 'prophecy' must be questioned. How could the final and greatest prophet, so-called, not appear in the Bible, which covers time from creation to the end of the present heaven and earth?
Even the message of the Qur'an is out-dated. It is religion based on law and justice without the grace of God. A man must prove himself worthy by his works. But, as we know from the Bible, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So according to Islam, we must all perish in our sin. Why would an all-good God even consider resurrecting a sinful man? The Bible is quite right when it says that 'the wages of sin is DEATH'.
The Qur'an even claims that Jesus was not crucified. Yet Jesus himself said that he had to die! Without the blood of Christ there is no redemption.
Instead of judging the Bible by the Qur'an, you should judge the Qur'an according to the light of the Bible!
Tumah
Veteran Member
There is literally nothing of value in this post.
[quoteInstead of judging the Bible by the Qur'an, you should judge the Qur'an according to the light of the Bible![/QUOTE]You have no brought to the table any basis for them to do so.
How does the number of books, years or authors add to the authenticity of a work?
Said the guy whose Bible was written after the fact.
You are not doing that here either.
Think about it. If Jesus does not appear in the Tanach, then his own 'prophecy' must be questioned. How could the final and greatest prophet, so called, not appear in the Tanach, yadda yadda yadda.
Does this seem like a logical argument to you? Because it says it in your Bible, the Qur'an must be wrong?
I don't think you realize what the word "corrupted" means. Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted. That means they believe that your Jesus never said that. You seem to have made a post without realizing what you are arguing against.
[quoteInstead of judging the Bible by the Qur'an, you should judge the Qur'an according to the light of the Bible![/QUOTE]You have no brought to the table any basis for them to do so.
The Bible is the Word of God as is the Quran. There is no contradiction between them except in wrong interpretations.
Muhammad is prophesied in the Quran. Christians have denied Him because they have clung to the false interpretations of their leaders.
To turn away from Muhammad is to turn away from Christ and God and carry oneself proud before Them.
Humility and sincerity clearly show all the Prophets and Messengers as having come from the same God, but as the leaders of religion perceived the New Messenger a threat to their position and power, they told their followers He was false and from Satan.
The true false prophets spoken of by Christ are the leaders of religion who have deliberately led His flock astray to preserve their own power. They care not for truth but for maintaining their own control over their followers.
Since ignoring the interpretations of the leaders of religion I have found truth. That all religions are true not only the Bible.
"The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Quranic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two."
The New Testament speaks of the bodily crucifixion and the Quran is speaking of the spirit of Christ so there is no contradiction.
There is no corruption except the meanings of the Books have been corrupted by the wrong interpretations of the leaders of religion. The Words of both Books have not been corrupted as both the Quran and Bible have been widely distributed.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Admit? I just showed you, they are not errors.
Do you know how to comprehend?
Look who's asking. LOL
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Then you've missed the point,Tumah. The consistency of the prophetic message over generations is what makes the Bible unlike any other book. As stated at the start of my last post, one man can easily provide a false testimony, but maintaining the coherence of a false testimony over hundreds of years is beyond the ingenuity of one man. This applies to the Tanach, let alone the the two testaments combined.
And as regards Jesus not appearing in the Tanach, you know very well that as a Christian I see the whole Word, from Genesis through to Revelation, as focused on the person of Christ. I'm happy to discuss that with you on another thread.
Another point, that I did not raise in the last post, is that of Muhammad's prophetic office. As I understand, all the literary prophets of the Bible were Israelites, beginning with Moses. How does Muhammad qualify?
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
[Did you mean the Bible?]
I am not relying on any leader to interpret the Bible for me. So you can speak to me directly and tell me which passages of scripture show Muhammad to be the last and greatest prophet.
Your acceptance of the crucifixion is not common to all Muslims. The fact is, the Qur'an does make contradictory statements to the Bible. What does the Qur'an say about the testing of Abraham? Which son did he take to the mountain in the land of Moriah? Which son of Abraham was his true heir?
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Hi Redemption.
Firstly this is what I believe about the Bible.
"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God."
And
"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended." (Bahá'í)
These are some of my beliefs of Christianity and Jesus.