There are no errors in the Qur'an

[YmirGF]

I have a lot of experience for your information...

You're 15, Jabar. At your age you can indeed have some experience in some areas, but not a lot of experience overall. You will understand when you are 40 or 50. That's not meant as a put-down, btw, but really just stating the obvious. I'm still quite impressed with how articulate you are. I'm thinking you are doing pretty well in school.

 

[Jabar]

You're 15, Jabar.

Lets not get off topic.

How do you know i am 15?

 

[YmirGF]

Lets not get off topic.

How do you know i am 15?

It was in your profile when I looked. I needed it to flesh out your psych profile I have sitting in my archives. (I have dossiers on all RF members.)

Personally, I would not shy away from this fact or try to hide it. I think it goes directly to the integrity of your character and your inherent intelligence.

 

[Jabar]

It was in your profile when I looked. I needed it to flesh out your psych profile I have sitting in my archives. (I have dossiers on all RF members.)

How do you know that it actually is my age?


It could all be a lie.

I'm 36.

 

[YmirGF]

How do you know that it actually is my age?


It could all be a lie.

I'm 36.

Oh, too bad. If you're 36 then I'm not anywhere near as impressed.

I was working on the premise that Muslims are supposed to be truthful.

 

[Jabar]

Oh, too bad. If you're 36 then I'm not anywhere near as impressed.

I was working on the premise that Muslims are supposed to be truthful.

Haha, being too truthful to the point where things become personal would not be good.

You can call it unimpressive or whatever you want.

But, you cannot give me an error.

 

[Jabar]

Next he'll be telling us he's from New Jersey.

Hahahahahahahahaa

:O

 

[Faronator]

That's wrong, many people read the Qur'an as i d.

You should refrain from the insults as it would make this environment a more safer one.

A safer one? It's the Internet and rather than address my question - you ignore it and say it isn't relevant although you brought it up. Time to hit the ignore button on you. If I wanted to feel less intelligent - I'd do drugs.

 

[Jabar]

A safer one? It's the Internet and rather than address my question - you ignore it and say it isn't relevant although you brought it up. Time to hit the ignore button on you. If I wanted to feel less intelligent - I'd do drugs.

Haha, you never stop.

 

[ArtieE]

The Qur'an is the divine instruction manual for mankind

There are no errors as it is divine.

You should try to debate a person who claims there are no errors in the Bible since both books are supposed to be from the same god but according to the Bible Jesus is the son of God and God even says so but according to the Qur'an God doesn't have a son.

 

[Jabar]

You should try to debate a person who claims there are no errors in the Bible since both books are supposed to be from the same god but according to the Bible Jesus is the son of God and God even says so but according to the Qur'an God doesn't have a son.

Your own Bible goes against that claim.

Churches have blinded you.

 

[OurCreed]

The sun sets in a pool of muddy water, and Muhammad confirms it.

No it doesn't. You're reading the English translations, not the Arabic: http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/Quran_18.86_sun_setting_muddy_spring_murky_water.htm

18;85-86
"So he followed a way, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people."

The second underlined part is referring to the first underlined part. The bold part is not referring to a location, but a time of day, (when the sun is setting). If you read the link, it explains through the correct understanding of Arabic grammar why this is the case.

Dhul Qarnain followed a way, a road, that went into a muddy spring, and this road was near some tribe. The time of day when he was walking in a muddy spring was when the sun was setting. English translators add the word "place" in the verse to make it look like the muddy spring was a LOCATION where the sun was setting, but the word "place" is not present in the verse! The setting of the sun is referring to the time of day when the messenger followed a way which converged into the muddy spring. The word used in the Arabic is "Maghrib" which ALL MUSLIMS around the world know is a time of day. They even have a prayer called Maghrib prayer, which is performed when the sun is setting. So the mention of the sun in this verse is referring to the time of day, not a place where the sun actually sets.

The Qur'an already provides verses elsewhere of the motions of the planets and stars and their orbits. The Qur'an also confirms the sun goes around the round earth.

 

[Shad]

No it doesn't. You're reading the English translations, not the Arabic: http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/Quran_18.86_sun_setting_muddy_spring_murky_water.htm

18;85-86
"So he followed a way, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people."

The second underlined part is referring to the first underlined part. The bold part is not referring to a location, but a time of day, (when the sun is setting). If you read the link, it explains through the correct understanding of Arabic grammar why this is the case.

Dhul Qarnain followed a way, a road, that went into a muddy spring, and this road was near some tribe. The time of day when he was walking in a muddy spring was when the sun was setting. English translators add the word "place" in the verse to make it look like the muddy spring was a LOCATION where the sun was setting, but the word "place" is not present in the verse! The setting of the sun is referring to the time of day when the messenger followed a way which converged into the muddy spring. The word used in the Arabic is "Maghrib" which ALL MUSLIMS around the world know is a time of day. They even have a prayer called Maghrib prayer, which is performed when the sun is setting. So the mention of the sun in this verse is referring to the time of day, not a place where the sun actually sets.

The Qur'an already provides verses elsewhere of the motions of the planets and stars and their orbits. The Qur'an also confirms the sun goes around the round earth.

No as the parameter of the Sun signifies what he found not the path hence the injection of the setting Su within the sentence not the previous one. He was already following the path not finding it. A muddy spring is a place regardless of the addition of the word place. A house is a place. A waterfall is a place. To exist is to have a place as place means location, in this case geography. Also the Alexander Romance, which this verse is based on, also include the Sun setting in water which called the Window of Heaven. Just like other verses all follow a form of the Alexander Romance which predates the Quran and was common.

Do you know what a subject and predicate are in grammar? When you do you should realize your argument is horrible.

 

[Aquitaine]

That is not cherry picking.

Finding the right translation that fits the real meaning of the verse, makes the Qur'an as most pure as it can.

Cherry-picking is when you change the meaning of what it actually meant and trying to make it fit into science which i never did.

Once again you are making false accusations.

Nope, that's exactly what you're demonstrating with that verse apparently referring to the Big Bang. Had scientists not put forward that cosmic model, and had it not become mainstream in the scientific community, no muslim scholar would've ever twisted it to fit. Muslims were not talking about it 1400 years ago: only in the last century after scientists composed the model was it miraculously refit to refer to the Big Bang. . . what a miracle!

This is how it works with science and scripture: scientists make the discovery, then scholars rephrase scripture to fit with the accepted science at the time, not the other way around.

 

[Jabar]

Nope, that's exactly what you're demonstrating with that verse apparently referring to the Big Bang. Had scientists not put forward that cosmic model, and had it not become mainstream in the scientific community, no muslim scholar would've ever twisted it to fit. Muslims were not talking about it 1400 years ago: only in the last century after scientists composed the model was it miraculously refit to refer to the Big Bang. . . what a miracle!

This is how it works with science and scripture: scientists make the discovery, then scholars rephrase scripture to fit with the accepted science at the time, not the other way around.

How do you know Muslims were not talking about it 1400 years ago huh?

You are making false accusations.

 

[Aquitaine]

Your own Bible goes against that claim.

Churches have blinded you.

'My religion is right, yours is false'. Gee, haven't heard that one before. . .

 

[Aquitaine]

How do you know Muslims were not talking about it 1400 years ago huh?

You are making false accusations.

Because if they were they would've beaten Hubble et al and constructed the Big Bang model themselves centuries beforehand, and modern-day cosmologists/astronauts would be using the Koran in order to better navigate and understand the universe.

Can you imagine how the moon landings would've played out if NASA relied on the Koran?

 

[Shad]

'My religion is right, yours is false'. Gee, haven't heard that one before. . .

Easy. Look at Tafsirs for the verses which display no such idea as the one you are proposing now.

 

[OurCreed]

No as the parameter of the Sun signifies what he found not the path hence the injection of the setting Su within the sentence not the previous one. He was already following the path not finding it. A muddy spring is a place regardless of the addition of the word place. A house is a place. A waterfall is a place. To exist is to have a place as place means location, in this case geography. Also the Alexander Romance, which this verse is based on, also include the Sun setting in water which called the Window of Heaven. Just like other verses all follow a form of the Alexander Romance which predates the Quran and was common.

Do you know what a subject and predicate are in grammar? When you do you should realize your argument is horrible.

Your argument literally makes no sense. You are bringing in outside sources to try and prove your understanding. You didn't refute anything of the Qur'anic verse, nor the argument I presented. And you're linking these outside sources with the Qur'an and claiming the Qur'an is "based" off of them, and no proof for that either.

Did you even read the link? I'm guessing not, because it already shows you through the Arabic grammar why the sun isn't the one setting in the mud, but the road/pathway that Dhul Qarnain was traveling on. Yes, the muddy spring was a place, no one is denying that! But the setting of the sun was not a place! The sun was simply setting, it wasn't setting in any particular place. The word used for "setting sun" is "maghrib" which literally translates to sunset. Muslims all over the world do their fourth prayer of the day which is called Maghrib Prayer, and this prayer is done when the sun is setting. This is referring to the time of day, and not a place on earth. And for the record, Dhul Qarnain is not Alexander. You got proof that he is Alexander?

Random statements of people don't count as proof.

 

[Shad]

Your argument literally makes no sense. You are bringing in outside sources to try and prove your understanding. You didn't refute anything of the Qur'anic verse, nor the argument I presented. And you're linking these outside sources with the Qur'an and claiming the Qur'an is "based" off of them, and no proof for that either.

No my point was simple sentence structure which refutes your view since you have no idea how a subject and predicate operate.

Did you even read the link?

No need as it is just a copy/paste job of the same argument I came across a decade ago.

I'm guessing not, because it already shows you through the Arabic grammar why the sun isn't the one setting in the mud, but the road/pathway that Dhul Qarnain was traveling on.

Same mistake from a decade ago. prayer time for time in the Quran but in no instance is the word used for time always a place in the Quran. Again the subject, the Sun, and predicate, setting in a spring are basic sentence structure format. Since you do not understand this you are argument in ignorance of grammar you should of learned in k-12.

Yes, the muddy spring was a place, no one is denying that! But the setting of the sun was not a place!

Subject and predicate structure show the verse was literal. The Sun set in a spring.

The sun was simply setting, it wasn't setting in any particular place.

Subject and predicate structure show the verse was literal. The Sun set in a spring.

The word used for "setting sun" is "maghrib" which literally translates to sunset.

Except it doesn't

http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(18:86:4)

Muslims all over the world do their fourth prayer of the day which is called Maghrib Prayer, and this prayer is done when the sun is setting.

Double-standards. "You are bringing in outside sources to try and prove your understanding." Prayer time is an external source thus you are injecting a source for understanding.

There is no use of this word for a time in the Quran. Also this makes idha and balagha redundant. Also this creates issues with verse 18:93 which uses the same word to describe a place between two mountains, not the sunset.

This is referring to the time of day, and not a place on earth.

No it isn't. See above

And for the record, Dhul Qarnain is not Alexander. You got proof that he is Alexander?

Only the fact that the Alexander Legends existed for centuries before Islam which have the same story, in far more details, in which Alexander traveled east and west to the setting and rising of the sun, windows of Heaven, which is in the water. He found people in both cases. Perhaps you should read the legends.

Random statements of people don't count as proof.

Except it wasn't random. I said specifically that the story in the Quran is found prior to Islam in the Alexander Legends. You can also look up what a predicate is.