There are no mistakes in Quran

[Shad]

For you yes, but not for me.
To me it's perfectly rational and logical matter.

Considering you use fallacious reasoning your idea of rational is not the standard understanding of rational nor logical. You confuse your irrational illogical views with rational and logic views. Again the problem is that you do not know how to avoid flaws in your reasoning. Until you correct this, and admit to it, your reasoning will continue to be flawed. A proper education would resolve this. Your personal view of logic and rational are irrelevant.

 

[FearGod]

Considering you use fallacious reasoning your idea of rational is not the standard understanding of rational nor logical. You confuse your irrational illogical views with rational and logic views. Again the problem is that you do not know how to avoid flaws in your reasoning. Until you correct this, and admit to it, your reasoning will continue to be flawed. A proper education would resolve this. Your personal view of logic and rational are irrelevant.

How then you explain with logic that salt water above freshwater and don't mix?
Don't say after longtime they'll mix? say it for a baby.

 

[Shad]

How then you explain with logic that salt water above freshwater and don't mix?

It does mix, it basic chemistry a child can understand. It is taught in lower levels of grade school here.

 

[FearGod]

It does mix, it basic chemistry a child can understand. It is taught in lower levels of grade school here.

Yes it should mix, but the mystery that it doesn't, BTW they agree that it's a mystery except you.

 

[Shad]

Yes it should mix, but the mystery that it doesn't, BTW they agree that it's a mystery except you.

You have yet to establish this is a mystery. You quoted a travel guide with zero references showing it's views are true. "They" are anonymous people, no names, no studies, nothing. I have dismissed the link as nonsense it is. It still does nothing to support the Quran as you are still cherry picking one example and ignoring examples that show the verse is not true.More so you have used an example far removed from Arabia, Arabs, the religions of the area with zero inferences from the Quran even suggesting that your example is the one the Quran is talking about.

https://mason.gmu.edu/~cmcgloth/portfolio/fallacies/argumentselect.html

It is your source, support it.

 

[FearGod]

You have yet to establish this is a mystery. You quoted a travel guide with zero references showing it's views are true. "They" are anonymous people, no names, no studies, nothing. I have dismissed the link as nonsense it is. It still does nothing to support the Quran as you are still cherry picking one example and ignoring examples that show the verse is not true.More so you have used an example far removed from Arabia, Arabs, the religions of the area with zero inferences from the Quran even suggesting that your example is the one the Quran is talking about.

https://mason.gmu.edu/~cmcgloth/portfolio/fallacies/argumentselect.html

It is your source, support it.

It isn't cherry picking, but it does exist

Mostly, a lake is filled with freshwater but Labuan Cermin Lake, located on Labuan Kelambu Village, East Kalimantan contains fresh and salt water. Uniquely, both waters are not mixed – freshwater fills the lake’s surface while the salt one lies several meters below it separated with a thin cloud-like tissue. The lake is named ‘cermin (mirror)’ since the 2-hectare lake has stunningly clear bluish green water resembling a big mirror and inviting you to swim as you arrive there. Besides enjoying the lake’s natural scenery with rows of lush trees, you can also meet various freshwater fishes living on the lake’s surface and saltwater ones on the lake’s bed. The combination of different marine lives will surely make you more curious with this beautiful two-watered lake.
http://maritimenews.id/exploring-indonesian-unique-lakes-do-you-want-to-join-us/

 

[Shad]

It isn't cherry picking, but it does exist

Yes it is as you ignored examples of mixing that happens for a single example which you can not even link to the Quran other than by wishful thinking. Where in the Quran does it mention this specific lake? Where does it mention Asia let along the area of Indonesia. You provided the definition of cherry picking. After you acknowledge that in other examples there is mixing. You said it should mix. Now you find one "mysterious examples" as if it was evidence of anything in the Quran.

Mostly, a lake is filled with freshwater but Labuan Cermin Lake, located on Labuan Kelambu Village, East Kalimantan contains fresh and salt water. Uniquely, both waters are not mixed – freshwater fills the lake’s surface while the salt one lies several meters below it separated with a thin cloud-like tissue. The lake is named ‘cermin (mirror)’ since the 2-hectare lake has stunningly clear bluish green water resembling a big mirror and inviting you to swim as you arrive there. Besides enjoying the lake’s natural scenery with rows of lush trees, you can also meet various freshwater fishes living on the lake’s surface and saltwater ones on the lake’s bed. The combination of different marine lives will surely make you more curious with this beautiful two-watered lake.
http://maritimenews.id/exploring-indonesian-unique-lakes-do-you-want-to-join-us/

Virus on the website, scan your PC. I can only read what you have quoted. Still a travel guide. Link the references here if there are any.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/8...7ccd41a1640bd0f44c45e435/analysis/1456188034/

Still cherry picking thus your point is fallacious and dismissed as such. Also you will probably use this as a God of the Gaps and ad hoc rationalization.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes it is as you ignored examples of mixing that happens for a single example which you can not even link to the Quran other than by wishful thinking. Where in the Quran does it mention this specific lake? Where does it mention Asia let along the area of Indonesia. You provided the definition of cherry picking. After you acknowledge that in other examples there is mixing. You said it should mix. Now you find one "mysterious examples" as if it was evidence of anything in the Quran.




Virus on the website, scan your PC. I can only read what you have quoted. Still a travel guide. Link the references here if there are any.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/8...7ccd41a1640bd0f44c45e435/analysis/1456188034/

Still cherry picking thus your point is fallacious and dismissed as such. Also you will probably use this as a God of the Gaps and ad hoc rationalization.

I cannot actually believe that FearGod is defending this irrational bit of rubbish in the Qur'an. Then again, he has to, as he simply could never agree that the Qur'an is in error on this point.

 

[FearGod]

I cannot actually believe that FearGod is defending this irrational bit of rubbish in the Qur'an. Then again, he has to, as he simply could never agree that the Qur'an is in error on this point.

The quran isn't in error but the disbelievers are arrogant.

 

[YmirGF]

The quran isn't in error but the disbelievers are arrogant.

It is clearly in error, FearGod, it's just as a Muslim you cannot allow yourself to see it. You must pretend that your dusty old book is correct and modern science is wrong. You really have no alternative.

 

[FearGod]

Yes it is as you ignored examples of mixing that happens for a single example which you can not even link to the Quran other than by wishful thinking. Where in the Quran does it mention this specific lake? Where does it mention Asia let along the area of Indonesia. You provided the definition of cherry picking. After you acknowledge that in other examples there is mixing. You said it should mix. Now you find one "mysterious examples" as if it was evidence of anything in the Quran.




Virus on the website, scan your PC. I can only read what you have quoted. Still a travel guide. Link the references here if there are any.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/8...7ccd41a1640bd0f44c45e435/analysis/1456188034/

Still cherry picking thus your point is fallacious and dismissed as such. Also you will probably use this as a God of the Gaps and ad hoc rationalization.

It isn't cherry picking as the 2 bodies of water one is salt and the other is fresh do exist in nature, the 2 bodies
of water in normal cases should mix, bring fresh water in bowl and pour over it salt water, both should mix.

Your excuse that eventually both will mix, but they were there for millions of years, isn't that enough for them
to be mixed.

The verse is very clear and your position is very weak.

 

[FearGod]

It is clearly in error, FearGod, it's just as a Muslim you cannot allow yourself to see it. You must pretend that your dusty old book is correct and modern science is wrong. You really have no alternative.

Where did i say modern science is wrong, actually our science says that saltwater and freshwater
should mix but that doesn't happen in Labuan Cermin, in which one body of water is salt and the other is
fresh while don't mix.

I may agree with you that the quran is wrong if such strange phenomenon doesn't exist in nature, but it did.

 

[Shad]

It isn't cherry picking as the 2 bodies of water one is salt and the other is fresh do exist in nature, the 2 bodies
of water in normal cases should mix, bring fresh water in bowl and pour over it salt water, both should mix.

Yes it is as you are using the one example you find, but can not confirm outside a travel guide while ignoring every other example that contradicts the verse. There is no reference to any specific body of water itself. Asia is also far removed from the historical setting of Islam. It is far more likely a reference to the Dead Sea and Jordan River than your reference.

Your excuse that eventually both will mix, but they were there for millions of years, isn't that enough for them
to be mixed.

Nope it is a fact that it will mix thus it makes this barrier a horrible one.

The verse is very clear and your position is very weak.

No it isn't. There is no specific reference to this lake what so ever. You cherry picked the first source you could find on google which is a travel guide. Lets see a study of the lake not a tourist brochure. That is the definition of cherry picking. You position is laughable since you can not see your own fallacious reasoning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

P.S. I was not joking about the virus. My own A/V alert went off. The link to virustotal scanned the URL with two returns on possible infection. It could be a false positive but better safe than sorry. Give you PC a full scan, which could take hours, when you can.

 

[Shad]

I cannot actually believe that FearGod is defending this irrational bit of rubbish in the Qur'an. Then again, he has to, as he simply could never agree that the Qur'an is in error on this point.

I can. I see religious ideology trumping evidence in my own field all the time. People will grasp at whatever straw they can to maintain their ideology.

 

[FearGod]

Yes it is as you are using the one example you find, but can not confirm outside a travel guide while ignoring every other example that contradicts the verse. There is no reference to any specific body of water itself. Asia is also far removed from the historical setting of Islam. It is far more likely a reference to the Dead Sea and Jordan River than your reference.

That's a wishful thinking, there's no coral in the dead sea, the verse says there's coral and pearl in them.

Nope it is a fact that it will mix thus it makes this barrier a horrible one.

How it make the barrier a horrible one, what's your point?

No it isn't. There is no specific reference to this lake what so ever. You cherry picked the first source you could find on google which is a travel guide. Lets see a study of the lake not a tourist brochure. That is the definition of cherry picking. You position is laughable since you can not see your own fallacious reasoning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

P.S. I was not joking about the virus. My own A/V alert went off. The link to virustotal scanned the URL with two returns on possible infection. It could be a false positive but better safe than sorry. Give you PC a full scan, which could take hours, when you can.

So you don't believe that this lake contains 2 bodies of water(salt and fresh) unless it's in a scientific website.
And thank you for your advice.

 

[Shad]

That's a wishful thinking, there's no coral in the dead sea, the verse says there's coral and pearl in them.

It doesn't say coral or pearls in the verse at all.

You own source does not mention pearls nor coral. Let's see you meet your own counter-argument for your example

How it make the barrier a horrible one, what's your point?

If a barrier that "can not be transgressed" is transgressed then the verse is meaningless.

So you don't believe that this lake contains 2 bodies of water(salt and fresh) unless it's in a scientific website.

Yes, or a study, since it is a travel brochure not a statement made by professionals. Your fallacy is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

And thank you for your advice.

No problem. Since you still linked it I assumed your Anti-Virus, if you have one, didn't detect anything while mine did.

 

[FearGod]

It doesn't say coral or pearls in the verse at all.

You own source does not mention pearls nor coral. Let's see you meet your own counter-argument for your example

He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together(55:19)
Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress ( 55:20)
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?(55:21)
Out of them come Pearls and Coral( 55:22)

If a barrier that "can not be transgressed" is transgressed then the verse is meaningless.

If transgressed then salt should pass to the freshwater, which doesn't happen.

Yes, or a study, since it is a travel brochure not a statement made by professionals. Your fallacy is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

If you don't believe that such bodies of water do exist in nature then what we're arguing about.

No problem. Since you still linked it I assumed your Anti-Virus, if you have one, didn't detect anything while mine did.

Thank you for warning me about it.

 

[Augustus]

If transgressed then salt should pass to the freshwater, which doesn't happen.

There is no 'barrier' and there is plenty of 'transgression', you just have a low level of mixing.

Saltwater is heavier than freshwater so it stays at the bottom of the lake, and as the lake is still there is little mixing (which requires motion).

Salt does pass to the freshwater (freshwater contains salt anyway, just much less of it), it just happens at a slow rate.

This is something that is common in all estuaries, you have a freshwater layer and a saltwater layer. How thick these are and how 'separate' depends on flow rates, currents, topography, etc.

Salt wedge[edit]
In this type of estuary, river output greatly exceeds marine input and tidal effects have a minor importance. Fresh water floats on top of the seawater in a layer that gradually thins as it moves seaward. The denser seawater moves landward along the bottom of the estuary, forming a wedge-shaped layer that is thinner as it approaches land. As a velocity difference develops between the two layers, shear forces generate internal waves at the interface, mixing the seawater upward with the freshwater. An example of a salt wedge estuary is the Mississippi River.[7]

 

[Shad]

He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together(55:19)
Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress ( 55:20)
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?(55:21)
Out of them come Pearls and Coral( 55:22)

You are changing verses. First off we were talking about 25:53 now its 55:22. However since key data is missing from 25:53 you can not use both verses to mean the same body of water. Now lets see you provide evidence your lake has coral and produces pearl. Meet your own challenge.

If transgressed then salt should pass to the freshwater, which doesn't happen.

Your source is a travel brochure and is dismissed as an argument from authority. Support your claim with something of worth.

If you don't believe that such bodies of water do exist in nature then what we're arguing about.

You are still cherry picking but not supporting your claims with any evidence from a credible source. Again meet your own challenge.

 

[FearGod]

There is no 'barrier' and there is plenty of 'transgression', you just have a low level of mixing.

Saltwater is heavier than freshwater so it stays at the bottom of the lake, and as the lake is still there is little mixing (which requires motion).

Salt does pass to the freshwater (freshwater contains salt anyway, just much less of it), it just happens at a slow rate.

This is something that is common in all estuaries, you have a freshwater layer and a saltwater layer. How thick these are and how 'separate' depends on flow rates, currents, topography, etc.

Salt wedge[edit]
In this type of estuary, river output greatly exceeds marine input and tidal effects have a minor importance. Fresh water floats on top of the seawater in a layer that gradually thins as it moves seaward. The denser seawater moves landward along the bottom of the estuary, forming a wedge-shaped layer that is thinner as it approaches land. As a velocity difference develops between the two layers, shear forces generate internal waves at the interface, mixing the seawater upward with the freshwater. An example of a salt wedge estuary is the Mississippi River.[7]

Can we make the same in the lab? to let fresh water representing the river to flow into a saline water representing
the ocean and to see how they won't mix.