There Can be no "Intelligent Design"

[Thief]

The classic example arguing for intelligent design in the universe is William Paley’s “watchmaker” analogy. If, while roaming along a beach full of sand, rocks and random, chaotic waves, any reasonable person finds and picks up a pocket watch, he or she would understand that it was very different from the rest of the natural surroundings, that it was artificial, that it had purpose and that it was DESIGNED by an intelligence.

This analogy is used to argue for Intelligent Design in the establishing of the universe, in ranges all the way from a very subtle form (arranging the laws of nature by an intelligent creator) to a very literal and explicit form (that everything, including humans, were deliberately and specifically designed in moments of special creation).

I’m sure I can find writings from experts on both sides of the fence that answer the following questions. But I’m interested in opinions among us generally:

Paley contrasts the obvious design of the watch with the obvious non-design of the natural shoreline to argue positively that the universe at large is designed. But, if we take the situation literally (and I do understand, no analogy is meant to be), then the watch was designed by a being (a human) who itself was designed by a designer – the SAME designer that designed the sand, rocks and seawater. Hence, these other features are ALSO intelligently designed.

So, in real life, in cosmic terms, it seems impossible to distinguish between the design of a watch and the natural environment. If a creator made all in a moment (or six days) of special creation, then no aspect, no particle, no force, nor feature of that cosmos is NOT intelligently designed.

On what basis, then, can one claim that the universe IS intelligently designed since no one has ever experienced any phenomenon that is not intelligently designed? Doesn’t the universe appear to us in a way that can just as easily called “UN-intelligently” designed as “intelligently designed”?

Isn’t the question of intelligent design of a universe that contains everything meaningless and illogical?

ok....so if you were an alien exploring a dead planet and found something.....'made'....
you would assume it had no intelligence behind it.

and you really believe that ALL of the life on this planet was one huge ACCIDENT

one genetic boo boo after another....
culminating in a life form that can make......a pocket watch!

duh

 

[Deeje]

Quote-mined.

It was good for illustrative purposes. How often have you won the lottery?

"Our own lineage went through through millions of species. Because evolution is primarily a game of chance, any seemingly minor past event could have gone slightly different, cutting off our evolutionary line before humans evolved. ET proponents should be deeply discouraged that none of the millions of other lineages, representing the billions of species that have inhabited Earth during its existence, have made substantial progess toward high intelligence."

He was talking at ET believers not evolution.

"The long series of bottlenecks makes it clear that the emergence of intelligent life is far more difficult than scientist once thought. There are probably more obstacles that scientist haven't even stumbled across yet. The origin of life on Earth, for example, might have been the ultimate long shot. ET proponents might counter that this line of reasoning is based on mere anthropocentric speculation. Maybe life and even intelligent life can take on various forms that we can't even imagine."

At ET believers not evolution

Or "maybe" life was carefully crafted by an intelligence that evolutionists can't even imagine?

No, that was a response to this...<snipped for brevity>

But on closer examination, this simple logic falls apart. Recent studies in a variety of scientific fields suggest that life must pass through a series of bottlenecks on the road to intelligence. On Earth, a long sequence of improbable events transpired in just the right way to bring forth our existence, as if we had won a million-dollar lottery a million times in a row. Contrary to the prevailing belief, maybe we are special. Maybe humanity stands alone on a fertile island in the largely sterile waters of the galactic ocean.

Read what your reference rather than trusting in quote-mining apologist websites rely upon. Your source criticized ET believers not evolution...

http://www.xtec.cat/~aparra1/astronom/mars/vidae.htm

"On Earth, a long sequence of improbable events transpired in just the right way to bring forth our existence, as if we had won a million-dollar lottery a million times in a row. Contrary to the prevailing belief, maybe we are special. Maybe humanity stands alone on a fertile island in the largely sterile waters of the galactic ocean."

There is something just so incredibly scientific about that statement..... seriously....this is pure fantasy based on what? Wishful thinking?

Your beliefs require more faith more than mine.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The math is obviously not something that most evolutionists can speak about without derision. Astronomical figures are beyond our ability to grasp anyway, but suffice it to say, the odds are huge, despite quibbling about actual numbers.

I found a quote from Robert Naeye, a noted astronomer, evolutionist and one of the chief editors of the Magazine Sky and Telescope and Skywatch.
He wrote: “Because evolution is primarily a game of chance, any seemingly minor past event could have gone slightly different, cutting off our evolutionary line before humans evolved.” But we are supposed to believe that every gamble paid off, millions of times. Naeye admits: “The long series of bottlenecks makes it clear that the emergence of intelligent life is far more difficult than scientists once thought. There are probably more obstacles that scientists haven’t even stumbled across yet.”

He also said that life on earth is the result of “a long sequence of improbable events [that] transpired in just the right way to bring forth our existence, as if we had won a million-dollar lottery a million times in a row.”

(Naeye R., "OK, Where Are They?," Astronomy, July 1996, Vol. 24, No. 7, pp.36-43, p.38)

Make of that what you will....but how many times have you won the lottery?

How many people win the lottery more than once?

We're not supposed to believe that "every gamble paid off" given that about 99% of everything that has ever lived on the planet has gone extinct.


Edit: Oops, this is a quote mine and luckily, someone else already caught it.

 

[First Baseman]

For evolutionists:

Do you think that life will ever evolve to the point where an organism somehow becomes immortal?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So, what are the origins of evo by natural selection?

I find that to be an odd question.

 

[First Baseman]

I find that to be an odd question.

Abiogenesis is absolutely necessary if there is no creator so the question is relative.

 

[McBell]

The math is obviously not something that most evolutionists can speak about without derision. Astronomical figures are beyond our ability to grasp anyway, but suffice it to say, the odds are huge, despite quibbling about actual numbers.

I found a quote from Robert Naeye, a noted astronomer, evolutionist and one of the chief editors of the Magazine Sky and Telescope and Skywatch.
He wrote: “Because evolution is primarily a game of chance, any seemingly minor past event could have gone slightly different, cutting off our evolutionary line before humans evolved.” But we are supposed to believe that every gamble paid off, millions of times. Naeye admits: “The long series of bottlenecks makes it clear that the emergence of intelligent life is far more difficult than scientists once thought. There are probably more obstacles that scientists haven’t even stumbled across yet.”

He also said that life on earth is the result of “a long sequence of improbable events [that] transpired in just the right way to bring forth our existence, as if we had won a million-dollar lottery a million times in a row.”

(Naeye R., "OK, Where Are They?," Astronomy, July 1996, Vol. 24, No. 7, pp.36-43, p.38)

Make of that what you will....but how many times have you won the lottery?

How many people win the lottery more than once?

Until you present the math, it is nothing but a bold empty claim.
I am not a member of the choir.
You will have to show the math you claim supports your claim or your claim shall be dismissed as nothing more than wishful thinking.

Don't feel bad, you are not the first to make this bold empty claim.
I doubt you will be the last.

Though I was hoping you would be the first to actually support it with the math.

 

[Shad]

It was good for illustrative purposes. How often have you won the lottery?

I do not play so your question is moot as are lottery arguments.

Or "maybe" life was carefully crafted by an intelligence that evolutionists can't even imagine?

Maybe yet those that put this forward have zero evidence supporting this idea.

"On Earth, a long sequence of improbable events transpired in just the right way to bring forth our existence, as if we had won a million-dollar lottery a million times in a row. Contrary to the prevailing belief, maybe we are special. Maybe humanity stands alone on a fertile island in the largely sterile waters of the galactic ocean."

There is something just so incredibly scientific about that statement..... seriously....this is pure fantasy based on what?

Yah it is about ET believers. Again read your source and stop reading what your want into it.

our beliefs require more faith more than mine.

My beliefs have evidences, your do not. Try again.

 

[McBell]

Abiogenesis is absolutely necessary if there is no creator so the question is relative.

Interesting how you answered your own question...

 

[McBell]

Your beliefs require more faith more than mine.

Then you really need to rethink the situation.

You do understand just how big an epic fail your probability "argument" actually is, right?
I mean, you need to not only present the math of how unlikely abiogenesis and evolution is, but you also have to show the probability of not only a god existing, but that it is YOUR god out of all the proposed gods, that exists, and that your god is the one to have created everything.

 

[Ouroboros]

Make of that what you will....but how many times have you won the lottery?

A couple of times. Never the top, but some smaller wins, several times.

How many people win the lottery more than once?

Here are 12 of them: http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/nation/12-people-that-won-the-lottery-more-than-once/?view=all
Joan Ginther did it four (4) times!
There are in average 3-4 winners each day in America because there are so many lottos and so many players. (1500 winners/year)

If we had a game where you have to pick a number between 1 and 100. You win if you pick the right number. Your chances are 1 in 100. Now, we have 100 people playing the same game, and we have everything pick a unique number. The chances that someone wins is 100 in 100, or 1 in 1. In other words, it's a guarantee that someone will win. The more player you have, the higher chances are that someone wins, but not necessary that you specifically win.

 

[Ouroboros]

It was good for illustrative purposes. How often have you won the lottery?

Again:
1500 winners each year in America.
One person won 4 times
At least 12 people have won more than once.

 

[McBell]

Make of that what you will....but how many times have you won the lottery?

How many people win the lottery more than once?

Seems to me your analogy is flawed in that you are specifying an individual winning the lottery as though evolution is about individuals.
For your analogy to accurately present the situation, would it not need to be asked how many times has the lottery been won as opposed to your seemingly flawed one specific individual winning?

 

[RRex]

Hmm . . .

I have only to look at my hand to conclude that God is an engineer.

Everything about it screams intelligent design.

 

[McBell]

Hmm . . .

I have only to look at my hand to conclude that God is an engineer.

Everything about it screams intelligent design.

My two year old niece need only see a box of Oreo's to conclude that she should get some.
Not a very convincing "argument".

 

[RRex]

My two year old niece need only see a box of Oreo's to conclude that she should get some.
Not a very convincing "argument".

Just my humble opinion.

I look at the engineering that goes into mammals and their various bodily systems and I am a believer.

I realize and accept that not everyone sees things my way.

Incidentally, I was an atheist for about 50 years. Then I started to really notice things, not just look at things, but see them.

 

[McBell]

Just my humble opinion.

I look at the engineering that goes into mammals and their various bodily systems and I am a believer.

I realize and accept that not everyone sees things my way.

Incidentally, I was an atheist for about 50 years. Then I started to really notice things, not just look at things, but see them.

Personally, I see how flawed those same systems are and have to conclude that there I not much "intelligence" evidenced by them.

 

[RRex]

Personally, I see how flawed those same systems are and have to conclude that there I not much "intelligence" evidenced by them.

Do you not see the wonder of how perfectly balanced the human body is? It's a big chemical battery, served by a multitude of subsystems which complement the whole.

I don't believe in coincidence.

 

[Thief]

My two year old niece need only see a box of Oreo's to conclude that she should get some.
Not a very convincing "argument".

what if she screams?

 

[First Baseman]

I don't believe in coincidence.

That's a good thing.