There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[Bunyip]

**If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years.* Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.* If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year.* But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him.* If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.* But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.* I would rather not go free.'* If he does this, his master must present him before God.* Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.* After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.* (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.* You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.* You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.* You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.**(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

 

[Serenity7855]

Ah Pigeon Chess. Not seen that used for a while now. It is more often then not used by those who play it the most. Projectionists. It refers to, and I quote, having a pointless debate with somebody utterly ignorant of the subject matter, but standing on a dogmatic position that cannot be moved with any amount of education or logic, but who always proclaims victory

As I said, usually used by elitist self confessed "know it alls" who think they have all the answers, but when it comes to Christianity, they lack the interaction with the Holy Ghost, so speak from total ignorance.

 

[Bunyip]

Serenity

As you can see Exodus explains that the wife and children remain property for life.

As you can also see from Leviticus, it was lawful to purchase foreign slaves. The seven year rule applied only to male Hebrew slaves.

 

[Bunyip]

Serenity

This passage will clear up your misconconception about female slaves - they were enslaved for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.* If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.* But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.* And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.* If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.* If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.* (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

[Bunyip]

Serenity

Here is the part of Exodus you must have missed explaining how slaves were property and not contracted labour;***When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.* If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.* (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

*

 

[Serenity7855]

**If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years.* Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.* If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year.* But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him.* If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.* But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.* I would rather not go free.'* If he does this, his master must present him before God.* Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.* After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.* (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.* You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.* You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.* You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.**(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

This is false doctrine. The words have been changed. This is how it should read.

Exodus 21:2-6King James Version (KJV)

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.


Leviticus 25:44-46King James Version (KJV)

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

These verses in no way indicate that God sanctioned them. You need to read them in context.

 

[adi2d]

It is not a lifelong contract unless the servant chooses for it to be. Are you reading Exodus 21: 2 - 6, because it sure don't sound like it.

"If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Where does it say forever. You have added it. At the point that he leaves the statement is correct as she has not done her seven years.

Only until there seven years are up. That is the law.The wife and kids remain the property of the master only until their contract comes to an end. You are speculating and then turning it into fact with you own spin.

You are also making your own interpretations on this "If his master have given him a wife" did the master go out and buy him a wife, did he have one in stock that he bought earlier, would she go out before him if she was purchased before him, did he buy her after he bought him so she would leave after him. The law applied to both men and women. The master only had permanent servants if it were their choice. Nobody was forced into being a servant, they were all volunteers and they would all be freed after their contracts were fulfilled. Unless they chose different. Read the verses, it is all there.

I'm trying to understand your interpretation. I really am

It seems that you are adding to verse 4. It says th will be the masters. You are adding until the seven years are up

In you scenario the wife would have to leave her children. That's bad enough nut you are having the child make a life long decision at 7 years old. You have children and grand children. Could they make an informed decision like that at 7?

 

[Serenity7855]

I'm trying to understand your interpretation. I really am

It seems that you are adding to verse 4. It says th will be the masters. You are adding until the seven years are up

In you scenario the wife would have to leave her children. That's bad enough nut you are having the child make a life long decision at 7 years old. You have children and grand children. Could they make an informed decision like that at 7?

The child would leave with the mother.

I am not adding until the seven years are up, that was the law that Moses was announcing.

 

[Bunyip]

This is false doctrine. The words have been changed. This is how it should read.

But your versions say the same thing - they are translations from the same text that make the same claims.

Exodus 21:2-6King James Version (KJV)

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.


Leviticus 25:44-46King James Version (KJV)

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

These verses in no way indicate that God sanctioned them. You need to read them in context.

 

[Bunyip]

Serenity

The essential points in both translations remian the same - how does that make the NLT version a false doctrine as you said, when they concurr?

Just trying to understand your objection.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When God herself comes down her to tell me she actually exist, then I'll just assume I'm human and ingested a good dose of LSD without knowing it. Or maybe I was dreaming. Or maybe it was real? I'm only a sack of meat that runs on electricity. How am I ever to know the difference?

 

[Shad]

Ah Pigeon Chess. Not seen that used for a while now. It is more often then not used by those who play it the most. Projectionists. It refers to, and I quote, having a pointless debate with somebody utterly ignorant of the subject matter, but standing on a dogmatic position that cannot be moved with any amount of education or logic, but who always proclaims victory

As I said, usually used by elitist self confessed "know it alls" who think they have all the answers, but when it comes to Christianity, they lack the interaction with the Holy Ghost, so speak from total ignorance.

I thought I was on ignore.

The comment was directed at you. It is assuming to hear your accusation other of doing it while most of your comment end up being nothing more than pigeon chess. Especially in light of your ignorance of logic and Greek.

As I said, usually used by elitist self confessed "know it alls" who think they have all the answers, but when it comes to Christianity, they lack the interaction with the Holy Ghost, so speak from total ignorance.

Yes that must be it. We lack interaction with an entity we do not believe in. Next time you chat with Casper let him know to stop by my house for a nice chat. I would also like point out you sir lack experience of the slimed one without which one can have no knowledge and always speaks ignorance. Woe to those unslimed for in their cleanliness they think they see clearly and true!

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity

This passage will clear up your misconconception about female slaves - they were enslaved for life.

What you fail to see is that it was a blessing to become a servant as it meant that you were not destined to die of starvation or exposure. How do you blame God for saving lives

(7) If a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant.—The right of selling their children into slavery was regarded in ancient times as inherent in the patria potestas, and was practised largely by many nations (Herod. v. 6; Heyne, Opusc., vol. iv., p. 125). Among the Hebrews such sales were, comparatively speaking, rare; but still they occasionally took place, in consequence of extreme poverty (Nehemiah 5:5). Women sold in this way might claim their freedom at the end of six years if they chose (Deuteronomy 15:17); but if purchased to be wives, they received a further protection. If the intention were carried out, they were to be entitled to the status of wives during their whole lifetime, even though their husbands contracted further marriages (Exodus 21:10). If, instead of becoming the wife of her purchaser, a woman was made over by him to his son, she was to enjoy all the rights of a daughter (Exodus 21:9). If the purchaser declined to act in either of these two ways, he was compelled to take one of two other courses. Either he must get another Hebrew to discharge his obligation of marriage (Exodus 21:8), or he must return the maid intact to her father, without making any demand for the restitution of the purchase-money (Exodus 21:11). These provisions afforded a considerable protection to the slave-concubine, who might otherwise have been liable to grievous wrong and oppression.

Exodus 21:7 Commentaries: "If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.


Deuteronomy 15:17King James Version (KJV)

17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity

The essential points in both translations remian the same - how does that make the NLT version a false doctrine as you said, when they concurr?

Just trying to understand your objection.

I have given you two dictionary definitions of "slave" and "servant". I have not given you lexicon definitions as we are discussing the bible, translated into English by the inspiration of God, so it is appropriate to use an English dictionary to define the English words that God Himself used. Please note the vast difference between the two words, and also note that both words are used in the bible in accordance to their definitions.

Slave

noun

1.(especially in the past) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.

Servant

noun
a person who performs duties for others, especially a person employed in a house on domestic duties or as a personal attendant.

 

[Shad]

Again not using lexicons shows that Serenity himself has no knowledge of his Bible but rather use "magic" (divine inspiration) to deduct definitions of words. Discussing the Bible without a lexicon is plain stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity

Here is the part of Exodus you must have missed explaining how slaves were property and not contracted labour;***When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.* If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.* (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

*

Why have you change the version of the bible to NAB from NLT. Didn't the NLT say what you wanted?

Exodus 21:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

These two verses have already been debated a few pages back.


By the law laid down in verse 20, it gave their lives the same protection, or nearly the same, as the lives of freemen. "Smiting "was allowed as a discipline, without which slavery cannot exist; but such smiting as resulted in death was, as a general rule, punishable like any other homicide. The only exception was, if the slave did not die for some days (ver. 21). In that case the master was considered not to have intended the slave' s death, and to be sufficiently punished by the loss of his property. Verse 20. - If a man smite his servant, or his maid. "Maids" would commonly be chastised by their mistress, or by an upper servant acting under the mistress' s authority. "A man" here means "any one." With a rod. The rods wherewith Egyptian slaves were chastised appear upon the monuments. They were long canes, like those used by our schoolmasters.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/21-20.htm

 

[Serenity7855]

Again not using lexicons shows that Serenity himself has no knowledge of his Bible but rather use "magic" to deduct definitions of words. Discussing the Bible without a lexicon is plain stupidity and ignorance.

Ad homenim

 

[Shad]

You want to discuss the Bible which was not written in English but in Greek. However you do not want to deal with Greek but rather strictly adhere to a translation in English and definitions of English words. You also pick the translation which you feel is divinely inspired which is just your subjective opinion. Since you are not using a Greek lexicon to confirm a translation you are appealing to your own ignorance that your subjectively picked translation is accurate. My comment was a conclusion. I already posted my arguments about slaves and servents pages ago which you ignored in a huff when I referenced Greek words for a free servant and that of a slave as property.

I believe my conclusion is accurate even if blunt and offense to those it applies to.

So why did you claim to put me on ignore when I clearly am not?

 

[adi2d]

Have you read these five verses? Are you reading Exodus 21:2-6? Only what you are saying does not match that which has been written. The children came under the same laws as their parents, a seven year contract. Of course the children or the wife given whilst in servitude would remain the servants of the master after the man did his seven years. They were still under their seven year contract. I thought that was a given. Why would they set free the man and keep the woman forever? You are painting the Masters in an unsavoury light, we do not know that. That is pure conjecture and intended to taunt Christians rather then have honest debate.

In this post you state that the children are under a seven year contract. Now you change it to the children are under their mothers contract. Its hard to discuss things with you when you can't keep your story straight.

 

[Iti oj]

When God herself comes down her to tell me she actually exist, then I'll just assume I'm human and ingested a good dose of LSD without knowing it. Or maybe I was dreaming. Or maybe it was real? I'm only a sack of meat that runs on electricity. How am I ever to know the difference?

Yes, but If all of humanity has the same experience at the same time, maybe through on some physics defying miracles, on camera for good measure