There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

Convenient or Jesus foretelling the events and attitudes of the future before He returns?

You have no idea what Jesus may or may not have said.

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible is the authority for the believer.

Just as Harry Potter is authority for those who want to believe it is evidence of wizardry.

Because as I told you so many times already that God revealed Himself to me, delivered me, gave me His Spirit and Eternal Life through Jesus Christ, The Bible is His Word and Truth not those other books.

It's hard to imagine a better example of a circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

Isn't belief without evidence, merely belief?

A belief is merely a belief?

 

[Sheldon]

Predicting that not everyone will agree with a new ideology is hardly "prescience". More like "stating the bleedin' obvious".

Precisely, though he can't even know Jesus said any such thing of course, so the claim "the world is unfolding as Jesus claimed" is risible really.

 

[Sheldon]

I guess if you don't count the testimonies of billions of people.... the supernatural by definition would seem to be untestable by science.

That's an argumentum ad populum fallacy. Also all non-existent things are untestable by science, so pause for thought.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You have no idea what Jesus may or may not have said.

Sure I do because He said it was better that He leave because then He would send the Holy Spirit to live in believers to lead and guide us in all Truth.
That’s exactly what He did and what happens when a person is born again.


““But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Sheldon]

I don't understand why creationists, such as yourself, feel the need to fabricate a false opposing position if the actual opposing position is so very flawed.

Oh go-warn, I'm sure you can if you try.

 

[Sheldon]

Sure I do because He said it was better that He leave because then He would send the Holy Spirit to live in believers to lead and guide us in all Truth.
That’s exactly what He did and what happens when a person is born again.

Nope, every word and deed assigned him in the bible is hearsay, written long after the events they allege to describe. Your subjective feelings are not evidence for anyone else, obviously else we'd have to lend credence to all anecdotal claims, even contradictory ones.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope, every word and deed assigned him in the bible is hearsay, written long after the events they allege to describe. Your subjective feelings are not evidence for anyone else, obviously else we'd have to lend credence to all anecdotal claims, even contradictory ones.

That’s funny because His Word is still being fulfilled everyday someone gets saved and baptized, they pass from death to life, eyes opened to the truth and Eternal Life.

 

[Sheldon]

That’s funny because His Word is still being fulfilled everyday someone gets saved and baptized, they pass from death to life, eyes opened to the truth and Eternal Life.

That is just a subjective opinion, and of course it has no bearing on the fact that no one can known what Jesus may have said or done. Since the claims assigned him are anonymous unevidenced hearsay, how you feel about the claims doesn't change this fact.

 

[an anarchist]

FWIW, I wonder if you would get more responses to this question if this were posted in Religious Q&A vs. Reigious Debates.

Welp I guess we found out

 

[dybmh]

Welp I guess we found out

There have been some interesting posts. I'm still following the thread, but I'm skipping past the folks who post multiple times repeatedly.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Really? I thought that it was supposed to be everywhere.

The Spirit doesn't manifest himself in places he's not welcome, as a general rule. There's lots of dead churches in the world.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I've suggested to you that your RF life would be less contentious if you recognized and admitted that you believe what you believe by faith, not evidence or reason, and posted that way.

It doesn't have to be either/ or. Faith can be reasonable.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is just a subjective opinion, and of course it has no bearing on the fact that no one can known what Jesus may have said or done. Since the claims assigned him are anonymous unevidenced hearsay, how you feel about the claims doesn't change this fact.

You don’t know but we believers do know, His Word is living and active not dead. Not doing anything for you because it’s not by faith for you so of course it’s just hearsay for you.
Hebrews 11 and just like the other believers on here have been telling you, yet you’re just blind to it, you can’t seem to grasp or understand God’s ways. It’s just like He said that His ways are higher than man’s ways.
I found this to be true as well.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not sure if I would describe people who think that things like babies with cancer are a result of the sins of the parents "a good human".

Well, he tried to be nice there. Of course it turned later, so you have a point.

 

[InChrist]

Thank you for that. You're not alone. It's very common for huge swathes of posts making arguments or asking questions to be ignored. I'm glad that you recognize that that is an indication of disrespect for the other person's interests and the time taken to make those points. It's also a bad faith way to deal with difficult issues when done to avoid having to address them. One really ought to acknowledge such passages with a statement of assent to indicate reading it and finding no fault, or, if one disagrees, to say so and state what part of the argument is in dispute.



Thanks again. Now THAT's of interest to me, and I hope to you as well.

The reason I asked is that many, you included I believe, take the attitude that if a person didn't find God in their search, they made some kind of mistake and need to keep trying. You might offer your own experience as evidence of that. After approaching religion from two different perspectives that failed to meet your needs or expectations, Catholicism and Mormonism, you tried something new and found something that you preferred. I didn't do that. When Protestantism failed me, I moved to humanism, which met my needs where theism had failed. You might disapprove, but I say that we were doing the same thing - finding a pair of shoe that we could walk comfortably in, having discarded those pairs that were ill-fitting.

You might see it otherwise, but to me, your story is further confirmation that there is no deity waiting for us to find it so that it can reveal itself more fully. If there were, we both would have found it the first time. Actually, I thought I had:

My conversion to Christianity happened while I was in the Army. I wandered into the congregation of a very gifted and charismatic pastor who had all of us in a euphoric state with every service, which I experienced as the presence of the Holy Spirit. Upon discharge, I returned home and tried to find a new congregation. I visited about a half dozen of them in my first few years home, and they were all lifeless. I understood what that meant. I had misunderstood the initial experience. There was no Spirit behind that first church experience, just a skillful preacher, and so I moved on.

It's not just that this deity had failed to reveal itself. I also saw why so many other people claimed that they experience God. Like me, they were misunderstanding a comforting endogenous psychological experience. And why when people tell me that my faith must have been weak and that I need to keep trying to find this god, I understand that to mean that they have accepted their psychological state as evidence of a deity that for whatever reason, I keep failing to find.

I appreciate your response and hearing about the congregation you attended while in the Army, and your evaluation of your religious experience. Thank you for sharing.

I do see things differently than you do and I will explain my reasons. First though, I want to say that although I have a different perspective than you, I am not trying to disregard or invalidate your experience or view.

You said

...”I wandered into the congregation of a very gifted and charismatic pastor who had all of us in a euphoric state with every service,”

If your focus was upon a charismatic pastor and experiencing a euphoric state, then you did not meet God because you were looking elsewhere. It was the same for me. I was looking for a religion, for some practice or group that suited me; so I did not find God. God was faithful though and drew me step by step to Himself. I got saved outside church or religion, at home. Then I knew it was only about the Person of Jesus Christ, not a church, a religion or my own ideas. My entire perspective about life changed in a 24-hour period. Not only mine; my husband was saved the same day. Then we began pray for a long time friend who we had serous conflicts with to the point we’d all become enemies, filled with animosity toward each other. We had not spoken in months, but a couple weeks later we called him. Before we called, we prayed that if it was God’s timing, our former friend would allow us to stop by for a visit. He not only invited us to come over, but seemed enthusiastic to see us. I will never forget that visit and the peace that permeated the entire room as we had a short visit, which consisted of small talk and we shared that we have trusted Jesus Christ to forgive our sins and for eternal life. Then we left. Three days later, our friend came over unannounced to our house and as he walked in began crying saying he had given his life to Christ. All hard feelings between us were gone never to emerge again. We’d each found forgiveness and freedom in Christ. That was over thirty years ago. We are still good friends to this day.

I can’t count the number of people who have been distracted from knowing God by religion. Or the number of people or immature Christians who have had their faith shipwrecked or confused by charismatic pastors, false teachers, signs & wonders, or emotionally driven gatherings, which eventually leave them empty and disappointed. That’s not God, though.

You may be content with your humanism, but until you take your last breath I don’t doubt God will give you opportunities to be discontent and hopefully find true and everlasting peace in Himself...the Source.

Have a good night.

 

[rational experiences]

We already preached as a human theist scientists status....no man is God.

So he him his quotes written by a man was because a man was theorising thinking. Abstract.

As natural man human consciousness is exact for human survival. Only.

So if you abstract human behaviour as a thinker book writer. Then most of the human only aware writing is lying.

A theist human only. First says thinking. I'm human. I'm a man. I use the heavenly body to live survive then I die.

Dying is exact in one place exact only when and as it happens.

Isn't any satanic rich man liars position to argue. Theists. Not a theory for any human.

Is number one humans advice the book was shut and no one is meant to be reading from it today. As science by practice machine had been outlawed.

So if you know water you obtain. Oxygenated water that keeps you alive. It's natural man's first position I live in aware owned humans advice.

Without being a lying scientist for a machines history human only organisation.

Humans in nature don't own names first. They own self human position first. So word name using by humans is lying as natural position a human is first.

As we all live as the human first. Natural. Without any type of status then you're not allowed to falsely use status in the state a human using human truth.

History how a human allowed themselves a science practice was first to use a false implied human status that wasn't real in nature.

The warning to your own man humans ego.

 

[KWED]

That’s not quite what Jesus said in Matthew 24 or this:
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are you saying this is the obvious direction every society would go? Why not Utopia?

1. Most people are not like that.
2. There have always been people like that.

So again, nothing remarkable there.

 

[KWED]

I have looked at the so called evidence. It's nothing of the sort.

Ok. So explain how all the various hypotheses fail.
(Note: argument from personal incredulity or ignorance are not actually explanations)