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There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

The point wasn't addressed in your body parts analogy.

The point has been explained several times, by several people.

The point is that there are thousands of sects of Christianity, all claiming to be the one true one. You yourself claim that the religion you follow is the right one. The only evidence any of you have to offer isn't evidence at all, rather it's claims from an old book. Claims that differ from sect to sect, hence the vast number of different ones. The question here is, how do we figure out which one (if any) is actually the one true Christianity? It seems all we have to go on are your words and assertions about experiences and whatnot, and the words and assertions of thousands and thousands of other peoples claiming they've got it right. You guys can't even determine amongst yourselves which is the right version of Christianity, and you don't appear to have any way to demonstrate in any clear way, which one is the right one. So how is anybody else supposed to be able to figure it out? In other words, what is the pathway to truth here?
Ok so I did answer but you don’t like my answer. A Christian Church is a church of born again Believers that submit to the Bible, teach and live by the Bible, which is the Word of God. This is considered by God to be His Body and Bride of Christ. There is only 1 Christian Church. The rest are counterfeits and frauds.
Pretty easy… Is that Church teaching and submitted to the Bible? If not then it is not a Christian Church.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Ok so I did answer but you don’t like my answer. A Christian Church is a church of born again Believers that submit to the Bible, teach and live by the Bible, which is the Word of God. This is considered by God to be His Body and Bride of Christ. There is only 1 Christian Church. The rest are counterfeits and frauds.
Pretty easy… Is that Church teaching and submitted to the Bible? If not then it is not a Christian Church.
:facepalm:
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Sheldon said:
It's hard to see what that fact has to do with atheism, or your inability to grasp that endlessly asserting that according to the bible you are right and the rest wrong, when the all make the same claim, doesn't really address the point?
Well, the Bible and Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Him. If anyone says otherwise they are a false prophet and teacher. Your point is irrelevant

How does ignoring the point, and offering a straw man address what I said?
 
You, me and several others, for some reason @ElishaElijah thinks endless repeating a claim, even after it has been thoroughly refuted, will make it compelling. I don't think he really has any interest in objective debate.
I haven’t seen any refuting but all you’re doing is saying there are 45k Christian sects and how do you know you are part of the true Church? I told you and you say, you’re going by an old book. An old book you don’t understand is what it sounds like. Well the Bible is the only Source and Criteria to judge by concerning who is or is not a Christian Church or Believer.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
@joelr, I wanted to tell you that I think your posts disputing the validity of the Bible are excellently written. It's possible that the Bible is plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it and Christianity. Given the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter, it's reasonable to assume that the Bible is plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it. I suggest reading "Parallels between Christianity and ancient Pagan religions." Furthermore, the stories of Jesus' life were likely plagiarized from a few pagan religions that have similar stories of a holy man being born of a virgin, miraculously healing people, and being tempted by the devil before his ministry began. If you click on this link, you will read about ten other Christ-like figures who predate Christianity, and there are striking resemblances between the stories told about their lives and the stories written about Jesus' life in the Bible. Also, the story of Jesus dying to save humanity and being resurrected on the third day isn't the first savior story of its kind. In fact, Jesus' death on the cross and his resurrection parallel the life of Attis, the Greek god of vegetation (1250 BCE). For instance, Attis was crucified on a tree; he descended into the underworld after his death; and after three days, he was resurrected from the dead. He was also divinely born of a virgin. If you click on this link, you can read more similarities between the stories of the Greek god Attis' life and the stories about Jesus' life written in the Bible.
 
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joelr

Well-Known Member
If someone is saying Genesis is a myth, then they aren’t a believer.

I don't know why you would write this circular logic? If someone says the Quran is a myth then they are not a believer of the Quran? Does that mean that only people in a religion are allowed to say if it's true or not? You yourself cannot say if the Quran is not actually messages from God? You cannot say if Hindu scriptures are actually revelations from Krishna? You cannot say if the updates to all religions in the Bahai revelations are true or not because you are not a believer? So it might be true, all of those, you cannot say until you are a believer?

The most absurd thing ever.

Also
K.L. Sparks who wrote the paper on Genesis being a myth is a Baptist Pastor and a Professor at Eastern U. So you are incorrect.
But your illogical and nonsense argument isn't helping you at all. Historians can see that is all borrowed mythology, the archaeology doesn't agree with it and there is no evidence. They are just stories. You haven't answered to the fact that every religion can make these ridiculous claims and you would not support them?
IS it true that you really must be a Islamic scholar to actually say that the Quran is not true? Of course not. No angel showed up and gave revelations to Muhammad. Likewise no ghost Jesus gave revelations to Paul, the gospels are fictional narratives and that's it.
There are thousands of converts who speak on the atheist experience podcast, there is nothing specil about being a believer that gives you extra information except confirmation bias. The emotions you feel when speaking to a deity re the same when Hindu and Muslim people talk to their deities.

Do you have any actual evidence?

Sorry “Yahweh is God” as your name declares. Instead of fighting your namesake, how about you learn truth instead.
Thanks for your input and opinions.

And there is a strongman named Thor, named after the fictional God of Thunder. So what? My name refers to a fictional story. Ok?
Please demonstrate some truth, you haven't responded to any points, scholarship or given any evidence. You have only made claims, stated you beliefs and then made insane and bizarre statements that the only people who can say something is false are the people who say it's true?

Which of course isn't true because you probably feel Mormonism isn't true. Or the revelations about /christians and Jews in the Quran isn't true and are not a believer in those theologies or even a scholar.

Please demonstrate some truth?> Claims do not demonstrate truth. Muslims can say Allah is the true author of the Quran all day long. That doesn't make it true. You have not forwarded this argument at all?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Not sure what you mean by "Mark is a myth."
?


Mark is written like a myth. Uses language and literary styles only found in fiction. Doesn't give sources or explain improbable events, like fiction, does use Pauls letters and changes them to craft Earthly narratives. Uses the OT often sometmies verbatim, re-writes Kings, the Romulus narrative, the main character explains he teaches in parables (telling the reader the story is a parable) and Jesus scores 18 out of 22 on the Rank Ragalin mythotype scale. Higher than King Arthur.
Also dying/rising savior demigods who get followers into an afterlife is an older myth sweeping around that region and Jesus was he last. Baptism, eucharist, word made flesh, salvation, all races welcome, all Greek Hellenism. Like savior demigods these changes were being added to all religions in that region during that time.
This is myth making.


The Hellenistic World: The World of Alexander the Great

Hellenistic thought is evident in the narratives which make up the books of the Bible as the Hebrew Scriptures were revised and canonized during the Second Temple Period (c.515 BCE-70 CE), the latter part of which was during the Hellenic Period of the region. The gospels and epistles of the Christian New Testament were written in Greek and draw on Greek philosophy and religion as, for example, in the first chapter of the Gospel of John in which the word becomes flesh, a Platonic concept.
A few Hellenistc concepts religiojhs were picking up to become mystery religions (Christianity is one of the mystery religions)

- The basic forms of worship of both the Jewish and Christian communities were heavily influenced in their formative period by Hellenistic practices, and this remains fundamentally unchanged to the present time. Finally, the central religious literature of both traditions—the Jewish Talmud (an authoritative compendium of law, lore, and interpretation), the New Testament, and the later patristic literature of the early Church Fathers—are characteristic Hellenistic documents both in form and content.


-Other traditions even more radically reinterpreted the ancient figures. The cosmic or seasonal drama was interiorized to refer to the divine soul within man that must be liberated.


-Each persisted in its native land with little perceptible change save for its becoming linked to nationalistic or messianic movements (centring on a deliverer figure)


-and apocalyptic traditions (referring to a belief in the dramatic intervention of a god in human and natural events)


- Particularly noticeable was the success of a variety of prophets, magicians, and healers—e.g., John the Baptist, Jesus, Simon Magus, Apollonius of Tyana, Alexander the Paphlagonian, and the cult of the healer Asclepius—whose preaching corresponded to the activities of various Greek and Roman philosophic missionaries

-Other deities, who had previously been associated with national destiny (e.g., Zeus, Yahweh, and Isis), were raised to the status of transcendent, supreme

-his led to a change from concern for a religion of national prosperity to one for individual salvation, from focus on a particular ethnic group to concern for every human. The prophet or saviour replaced the priest and king as the chief religious figure.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Says in John:
“Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭CSB‬‬
The Bible is the a standard of Truth.

Then so is the Quran. I cannot believe you are still on "it's true because it says so"??????????????????? I truly don't think real debating is for you.

Surah 2

Surely the believers and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians – whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the last day and does good deeds – shall have their reward with their Lord and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve. (Ch.2: V.63)
And if they had believed and acted righteously, better surely, would have been their reward from Allah, had they but known! (Ch.2: V.104)


39 But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.
The Fire
39:16 They have an awning of fire above them and beneath them a dais (of fire). With this doth Allah appal His bondmen. O My bondmen, therefor fear Me!
Surely, those, who believe and do good deeds, and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, shall have their reward from their Lord, and no fear shall come on them, nor shall they grieve. (Ch.2: V.278)

See, a standard of truth. Because it says so. That is your best evidence? So much for critical thinking?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Is this your view as well? Is this peer reviewed?


My experience with the Biblical historicity field is that it's believed to be a mythical narrative based on older myths. Archaeology doesn't support most of the OT narratives.
Outside of fundamentalism people do not believe ancient claims that look exactly like borrowed myths and are said to be borrowed myths and the evidence shows they are borrowed myths.

Dr Carriers work is all peer-reviewed.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
All human men are original by body type the theist human of science.

Born babies grown into adult men.

You say human science is the SEE legal church rock founding. That said no man is God. Don't give God your human names or genesis will leave.

Meaning by terms man human's machine choice. As you resource earths body to make a machine function.

Not owning any human position.

Legal you lie as to see in science is the only place science is real. Natural observation. By humans.

Lie...I give my machine a life by energy to make it function.

You took a word of G od...legal position rock. Life is living. Machine a dead body inferred by mass type not alive alight burning. Not energy first it's mass.

So you gave a dead body life as a human scientist and have lied about the God word in natural life.

The first position word life is living exact. First ownership position human not a machine.

Rich men know they would kill off life on earth to be rich to give life to a machine. Whilst humans lose their life health. Dying sacrificed by every single early age death known to medical science...science causes.

As with CHrist C value C 100 years of bio life.

20 years of life rock law 120 years gave a man science adults life at age 20 to a cloud image was the teaching.

Since the one of only event ice the saviour mass had melted to be involved in cloud remassed plus image Inherited.

Now babies don't even get to live.

As ice melts human image remains constant in the clouds mass as does animal images updated.

Proven as dinosaurs own images in clouds too. No science practicing then.

So when machine technology wasn't using gain of image as a machine life hot and alight mass... the cooling atmosphere saved us.

Now it's increased machine used held communicators and held constantly when the heavens had been removing it. By cooling.

So now we are dying because of communicative constant technology known realised discussed yet agreed to cause. Isn't sensible as just humans yourselves...not a God..not Jesus a cloud image and not aliens.

Stephen Hawking life sacrificed implored you to not allow machines first position instead of human life.

Ignored until our brother becomes just as sick. As he always said sacrificed life allowed him personally to be a saved man and a rich man. And he believes.

As he idolises his own self. Never did he believe that life sacrificed was an act of human evil or cruelty.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Position one.

20 year old first human theist.

Ice gods bio saviour existed by body mass.

Water kept cooled by ice you already owned cooled gases by ice life supported.

You do technology reactor. Ice melts as the ice came after heated reactions on earth.

Water gets removed you get sacrificed biology genesis. Ice melts puts back water as saviour.....too late you'd been sacrificed.

One reactor said father shuts down..then one by one. As earths ground mass shifts into a water lost desert. Until critical ice melt...
Any reactor will blow.

Man's alien technology attack on life he caused by enlarging nuclear atomic pressurised cold small bodies energy position held into generated giant reactions.

Already knew as it's his own man advice.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
You, me and several others, for some reason @ElishaElijah thinks endless repeating a claim, even after it has been thoroughly refuted, will make it compelling. I don't think he really has any interest in objective debate.

I know it's gotten to that point. At least believers of a similar mindset might one day read this and something will click?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I haven’t seen any refuting

Demonstrating that you only make claims is refuting. If I said Allah was real because the Quran says so and you said a story is not evidence you would be correct. We have done the same to your claims.

Your articles have been refuted. They are written by amateurs use almost no sources except for the Bible which is again "it's true because it says so".
Your list of Theologians has been refuted because Theologians do not attempt to study if the Bible is real. They assume it is and study the words.
Well so do Islamic scholars and listing them does not prove Islam is true either.

Personal anecdotes only mean you have a strong emotional attachment. Since you and I believe Hinduism and Islam is not real we can look at cases in both of extreme transformations, emotional feelings of answered prayer and communication. All created in the mind because those Gods do not exist. This demonstrates one can create all these feelings even when a religion is false.

Then you returned to scripture which is again saying "it's true because it says so". A fallacy.

Not to mention the absurd notion of only believers can study the historical and archaeological aspects of a religion? That's weird because THEY DON'T STUDY THAT AT ALL? All negative reviews of Carriers book on Jesus came from fundamentalists who clearly didn't know any of the arguments?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
@joelr, I wanted to tell you that I think your posts disputing the validity of the Bible are excellently written. It's possible that the Bible is plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it and Christianity. Given the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter, it's reasonable to assume that the Bible is plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it. I suggest reading "Parallels between Christianity and ancient Pagan religions." Furthermore, the stories of Jesus' life were likely plagiarized from a few pagan religions that have similar stories of a holy man being born of a virgin, miraculously healing people, and being tempted by the devil before his ministry began. If you click on this link, you will read about ten other Christ-like figures who predate Christianity, and there are striking resemblances between the stories told about their lives and the stories written about Jesus' life in the Bible. Also, the story of Jesus dying to save humanity and being resurrected on the third day isn't the first savior story of its kind. In fact, Jesus' death on the cross and his resurrection parallel the life of Attis, the Greek god of vegetation (1250 BCE). For instance, Attis was crucified on a tree; he descended into the underworld after his death; and after three days, he was resurrected from the dead. He was also divinely born of a virgin. If you click on this link, you can read more similarities between the stories of the Greek god Attis' life and the stories about Jesus' life written in the Bible.


Thank you! I 'm glad you find my posts well written.
I found this interesting because I mention this sometimes:

"when we strip away the miraculous and supernatural legends in the gospels which came from Pagan sources, we are left with the natural. What remains is a story of an itinerant Jewish teacher who followed the teachings of the 1st Century BCE Jewish philosopher: Hillel."

I am familiar with those sources, especially Stellar House and Zeitgeist, that is all based on D. M. Murdock who I enjoyed.
However when I first started reading Dr Carrier I found out there is an actual field and her work is not part of it and there are several things historians feel she was incorrect on.
I try to stick to the PhD work that is peer-reviewed because amateur history is free to say whatever they want.
Carrier has a blog and one article covers the known savior demigods and he uses original sources. His books are great also.
Dying-and-Rising Gods: It's Pagan, Guys. Get Over It. • Richard Carrier

Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou is another good source, her interviews are interesting.
Mark Goodacre is the expert on the Synoptic problem. Purvoe has worked on Acts and really exposed it as a work of fiction:
https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Acts-Unraveling-Its-Story/dp/159815012X
Bart Ehrman is another good Jesus historian. Carrier has several lectures on youtube and always reccomends some books he's basing the lecture on. That helps find good material as well. In his interviews he will mention scholars who were important parts of the big picture.
 
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