There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[samtonga43]

My experience with the Biblical historicity field is that it's believed to be a mythical narrative based on older myths. Archaeology doesn't support most of the OT narratives. Outside of fundamentalism people do not believe ancient claims that look exactly like borrowed myths and are said to be borrowed myths and the evidence shows they are borrowed myths.

I'm interested in your belief, joelr, that ancient claims look exactly like borrowed myths. Are you sure you want to use the word 'exactly'?

If you do, can we perhaps take as an example the myth of Mithras, and you can show in what way it is exactly like the ancient claims?
Thank you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

All negative reviews of Carriers book on Jesus came from fundamentalists who clearly didn't know any of the arguments?

I really don’t take any of your arguments seriously, it’s like talking to demons.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Not to mention the absurd notion of only believers can study the historical and archaeological aspects of a religion?

I also didn’t say this, what I said was when someone says there are 45,000 sects of Christianity, yet don’t know the criteria that determines what a Christian Church is then you have a problem. That criteria is only found in the Bible.
You also don’t seem to know what the Scriptures say or teach and only use other people’s research without checking into these things on your own.
You can use Carrier and Ehrman if you like and I will use my sources to refute those as well as my own study of the Scriptures, my relationship with God as confirmation of the Word of God.
I can tell you don’t know the Scriptures or history when you don’t know where certain verses are in the Bible or who wrote what. Also, even Ehrman doesn’t say that Jesus never existed. Does Carrier’s peer reviews say that Jesus Christ never existed like you’re saying? Peer viewed in the halls of Satan is what it sounds like especially when I gave you almost 100 scholars who disagree with both of them.

 

[samtonga43]

I also didn’t say this, what I said was when someone says there are 45,000 sects of Christianity, yet don’t know the criteria that determines what a Christian Church is then you have a problem.
You also don’t seem to know what the Scriptures say or teach and only use other people’s research without checking into these things on your own.
You can use Carrier and Ehrman if you like and I will use my sources to refute those as well as my own study of the Scriptures, my relationship with God as confirmation of the Word of God.
I can tell you don’t know the Scriptures or history when you don’t know where certain verses are in the Bible or who wrote what. Also, even Ehrman doesn’t say that Jesus never existed. Does Carrier’s peer reviews say that Jesus Christ never existed like you’re saying? Peer viewed in the halls of Satan is what it sounds like especially when I gave you almost 100 scholars who disagree with both of them.

Richard Carrier: A Fuller Reply to His Criticisms, Beliefs, and Claims about Jesus | The Bart Ehrman Blog

 

[MountMover]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Psychologically, religion gave people comfort, hope, and a sense of morality, and on top of that, a purpose in life.
In Christianity, I find it logically the most make sense, and beneficial to the world, with the least nonsensical rituals.
This is better than individualistic moral standard, egoistic world-view.
God's existence, Heaven and Hell realities, are another things which are not so important.
Just being good to another humans and to the rest of the world is what makes it count!
Even, if you can prove there is really no God, without religion (specifically, Christianity), the world would be more hostile for humanity.
But, I agree that some religions out there can be more damaging as well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I really don’t take any of your arguments seriously, it’s like talking to demons.

You talk to demons? Do they speak English?

 

[ElishaElijah]

You talk to demons? Do they speak English?

You aren’t a demon but according to the Bible you are being influenced by demons or the prince and power of the air. I would expel them in the name of Jesus Christ.
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient. We too all previously lived among them in our fleshly desires, carrying out the inclinations of our flesh and thoughts, and we were by nature children under wrath as the others were also.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭CSB‬‬

 

[SkepticThinker]

You aren’t a demon but according to the Bible you are being influenced by demons or the prince and power of the air. I would expel them in the name of Jesus Christ.
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient. We too all previously lived among them in our fleshly desires, carrying out the inclinations of our flesh and thoughts, and we were by nature children under wrath as the others were also.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭CSB‬‬

Where can I find one of these demons? How do I know they exist at all?

I've never seen nor heard a demon. So there is no evidence that I'm being influenced by them. So I will dismiss the claim, unless you have some evidence.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Where can I find one of these demons? How do I know they exist at all?

I've never seen nor heard a demon. So there is no evidence that I'm being influenced by them. So I will dismiss the claim, unless you have some evidence.

In your thoughts, you going to accept that all your thoughts come from you? They also take advantage of the fleshly desires, they exploit people there.

 

[SkepticThinker]

In your thoughts, you going to accept that all your thoughts come from you?

Umm, yep. Thoughts are products of my brain.

They also take advantage of the fleshly desires, they exploit people there.

These are more claims that don't answer my questions.
How do you know that demons exist? Where can I see one? How do you know the intentions of demons, if you can't even show me one?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Umm, yep. Thoughts are products of my brain.


These are more claims that don't answer my questions.
How do you know that demons exist? Where can I see one? How do you know the intentions of demons, if you can't even show me one?

The Bible describes the works of Satan and demons, you said you’ve read the Bible. Also, I’m sure you can use your brain to think of some places you might find demons, although I wouldn’t encourage that. It’s better to submit to God resist the devil and he will flee.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Bible describes the works of Satan and demons, you said you’ve read the Bible.

I've also pointed out umpteen times that the Bible is the claim, not the evidence. Hence my questions.

Also, I’m sure you can use your brain to think of some places you might find demons, although I wouldn’t encourage that. It’s better to submit to God resist the devil and he will flee.

Yes, no where, because they are apparently make believe. You're having a very difficult time trying to demonstrate they exist.
In fact, nobody who has ever existed on earth has ever demonstrated their existence. If they had, their existence would be demonstrable, just like the existence of everything else that actually exist in reality.

 

[ElishaElijah]

In fact, nobody who has ever existed on earth has ever demonstrated their existence. If they had, their existence would be demonstrable, just like the existence of everything else that actually exist in reality.

Probably go to a deliverance service, demons have been around a long time, not just recorded in the Bible but people are being delivered all over the world.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I've also pointed out umpteen times that the Bible is the claim, not the evidence. Hence my questions.

Keep pointing out your stuff and some things can’t be proven on RF.
Sorry you don’t believe the Bible is legit and a record of events, I do and will continue to use it whether you like it, agree with it or not.
Maybe, will look at some other things to prove but you probably dismiss those as well. Some things I just wait, when people are healthy and full they say all kinds of prideful things, but eventually everyone bottoms out and either curses God or cries out for help. Either case proves God though.
Have a good one.

 

[Sheldon]

You’re ignoring the point, sorry if you don’t know the Bible or what it means to be a believer or a Christian Church. Do you or @SkepticThinker a female. know that criteria? If you don’t then find out or your just sounding like a Gong.

Another irrelevant non sequitur, that doesn't address the point. Resorting to petty ad hominem, just illustrates that you're "holding an empty bag" here, and have no cogent answer to that point. Again then countless theists believe in widely different deities, and all cite the same anecdotal claims you do. Even Christianity has over 45000 different sects globally, this hardly suggests your method is reliable, let alone as certain as you keep claiming.

 

[Sheldon]

Historical methodology? Using what resource?

Historical method
"The term historical method refers to the collection of techniques and guidelines that historians use to research and write histories of the past."

 

[ElishaElijah]

Historical method
"The term historical method refers to the collection of techniques and guidelines that historians use to research and write histories of the past."

That’s fine but what’s that have to do with your 45k Christian sects when you don’t know the criteria to determine what a Christian Church is? What’s your definition of a sect? If a Church doesn’t hold to biblical teaching they are not a Christian Church. What’s the point other than no historical approach can determine a legit Church from a illegitimate church. The Bible is the source to determine that.
It doesn’t matter what you think of the Bible, that’s the source.

 

[Sheldon]

I haven’t seen any refuting

That's not true.

but all you’re doing is saying there are 45k Christian sects and how do you know you are part of the true Church?

Why I think there was a true church? The fact is you keep making assertions to absolute knowledge, while being unable to demonstrate anything beyond subjective assertions, and biblical quotes, as billions of other theists, in the approximately 45000 different denominations of Christianity, and of course the innumerable other deities humans have imagined are real.

"There are more than 45,000 denominations globally."

The fact you can't address this with anything but repetition, can only suggest you either have no answer, or bizarrely don't grasp what it implies for your claims and assertions to knowledge.

An old book you don’t understand is what it sounds like.

Rather ironic really, given this "understanding" you claim to have, is the same as the 45000 different Christian sects, so again you seem to be missing the point here entirely. I don't believe the bible's origins are anything but human of course, so it would be silly to expect me to understand it as if it was. That's for you to demonstrate not me, and you have failed to do so.

Well the Bible is the only Source and Criteria to judge by concerning who is or is not a Christian Church or Believer.

The same source the other 45000 sects use, dear oh dear, as I say you are just endlessly repeating the same claim, that doesn't address this point.

 

[Sheldon]

Not even remotely true, he offered a thorough refutation, which you have ignored. You either don't know the difference between historical methodology and belief, or you don't care.

Historical methodology? Using what resource?

Historical method
"The term historical method refers to the collection of techniques and guidelines that historians use to research and write histories of the past."

That’s fine but what’s that have to do with your 45k Christian sects

Nothing, it has to do with you falsely conflating the subjective beliefs of biblical scholars with historical fact.

you don’t know the criteria to determine what a Christian Church is?

Oh dear, more evidence the point is escaping you, one more time then, the fact there are 45000 Christian sects globally suggests your method is no more reliable than theirs when you cite the bible and subjective beliefs and anecdotal claims, as of they do.

What’s the point other than no historical approach can determine a legit Church from a illegitimate church. The Bible is the source to determine that.

You're now conflating two different arguments, go back and re-read the discourse for proper context of both. The way historical facts and sources are verified relates to refutations of a link you used, from a religious apologist website, and falsely claimed were evidence that the gospels, contained historical facts. When in fact they are anonymous hearsay.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why I think there was a true church? The fact is you keep making assertions to absolute knowledge, while being unable to demonstrate anything beyond subjective assertions, and biblical quotes, as billions of other theists, in the approximately 45000 different denominations of Christianity, and of course the innumerable other deities humans have imagined are real.

"There are more than 45,000 denominations globally."

The fact you can't address this with anything but repetition, can only suggest you either have no answer, or bizarrely don't grasp what it implies for your claims and assertions to knowledge.

So there is a big difference between “denomination” and “sect” isn’t there?