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There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?
- Thread starter an anarchist
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samtonga43
Well-Known Member
paradox
(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
good video, I always wondered how many are there and it looks like there is no answer to this.
protestants really need centralization and someone who will speak in their name.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
False dichotomy fallacy.
Justification is by faith alone (Paul)
Genuine faith in Christ produces good works.(James)
Context, joelr!
ElishaElijah
Return
The first requirement and qualification to be considered a biblical scholar is that you are born again of the Holy Spirit because Scripture is spiritually discerned.
ElishaElijah
Return
I said everyone who isn’t saved is under the influence of the kingdom of darkness, the prince and power of the air, yes. That’s Bible, JW’s are
a cult.
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit now working in the disobedient. We too all previously lived among them in our fleshly desires, carrying out the inclinations of our flesh and thoughts, and we were by nature children under wrath as the others were also. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us, made us alive with Christ even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace! He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might display the immeasurable riches of his grace through his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift — not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.”
Ephesians 2:1-10 CSB
paradox
(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
In Russia they are declared a terrorist organization according to the law
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You're right. Mithras is nothing like Jesus.
OK, can you provide any example of a myth which is exactly like the ancient claims?
Thank you.
ElishaElijah
Return
It’s not a yes or no question:
The US is comprised of many state and local governments all make laws according to the Constitution or Bible in this case. If you don’t know the Constitution or Bible and what it means how can you know a legitimate gov’t of the US or a treasonous one?
ElishaElijah
Return
The Bible or the Word of God explains what salvation, faith, and works are. Everything is tested by the Word of God whether things are true or false.
That is incorrect. The Bible defines nothing for the skeptic. His criteria come from elsewhere. I have to keep reminding you that you don't determine such things except for yourself. The proper way to express that idea is to say that for you, the criteria are found only in scripture rather than that that is true for them and everybody else.
Isn't that a lovely thing to teach people. You're literally demonizing them, the first step toward marginalizing and dehumanizing them. Wasn't being demon-filled the justification for Jesus destroying a herd of swine?
The idea of demons whispering in one's ear is a Christian device used to demonize the voice of reason when it causes cognitive dissonance considering Christian doctrine. Often, this is depicted as an angel and a devil sitting on the shoulders of a person while arguing with one another through the ears.
And it's one of the many alienating and self-loathing teachings of Christianity. Also, the universe is made of base matter fit for destruction. And that one is to be separate from the world, an evil place. Also, the body is a fleshy enemy corrupting a spirit within. And yours, which depicts the mind as being infested with an enemy that need to be shut out. The secular humanist is burdened with none of those anti-spiritual concepts. Authentic spirituality derives from a sense of connection to the world, and has nothing to do with spirits like demons. The Christian worldview does just about as much violence to that connectivity with the cosmos as is possible.
That's the church asking you to crucify your innate sense of reason and morality and to substitute its versions of what is true and what is good instead.
Humanism teaches the opposite. Man is the determiner of what is true and what is real. He has a duty to himself to take control of his own life, the be an autonomous citizen rather than a subject, and to achieve Maslow's highest need in his hierarchy of needs, self-realization, or self-actualization.
I've explained why believers are a poor resource for deciding what the Bible says. It's the motivated (tendentious) reasoning. The believer starts with assorted faith-based beliefs about what the Bible says even before he opens it up, such as that God is perfectly good, or that the Bible contains no errors. What use is such an opinion to one who doesn't decide such matter by faith, but by the evidence of his senses (his own eyes). He reads a biblical story and find the actions of the deity immoral. Then the believer gets to work trying to make the words conform to his preconceptions. Such words are of no value to one who processes information from evidence to sound conclusion rather than beginning with a faith-based belief.
And finally, even though I would trust an unbeliever more than a believer, I trust my own understanding of what the words in the Bible mean more than that of others just as with all other text using plain language. Unless we are talking about material written in the jargon of a profession or in unfamiliar English as with Chaucer, I think this claim that "you aren't qualified to disagree because you don't have the power to understand the words, which don't mean what you say they mean" is pretty much limited to the Bible. Think of all of the other books that people buy and read, and nobody makes that claim. They may say that the words mean more than the reader realized, the hidden message of the story or what it is intended to symbolize, but nobody claims that the words require a special spirit, for example, to understand.
Nope. It's that one shows expertise in matters biblical. As I alluded, I'm averse to the opinions of those trying to justify their faith-based beliefs. And scripture is discerned like any other text in a familiar language - by the language centers of the brain.
What difference would it make other than that they be different interpretations of scripture, which is the point when the Christian begins talking about Christianity as a unified entity? Comedian Emo Phillips summarizes the divisiveness leading to new denominations and sects nicely in a joke:
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
And yet my point stands about nobody in the history of the world ever being able to demonstrate their existence.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That's a lot of words just to declare that you have no good evidence for the claims you're making.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Whether you happen to think a government is legitimate or treasonous, it is still a government. So, the answer to my question, "Do I have to know the governments of all the countries on the world to know that there are 195 of them?" is no.
ElishaElijah
Return
I can’t believe you would do that the Bible says different:
“But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.”
Jude 1:20-23 NKJV
“Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Surely we did not know this,” Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?”
Proverbs 24:11-12 NKJV
Also, if you want to know what it means to be an American would you ask someone from China?
That’s why the Bible is the only source for truth for everyone, skeptic or believer.
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samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I was an atheist when I read the Bible for the first time. I read it in order to persuade Christians that they were irrational.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Riders
Well-Known Member
I have seen spiritual atheists in and out of 12-step recovery groups, even though it is not proof of God it is proof that spirituality works for a lot of people. Meditation is known to help people avoid hypertension, rage problems, high blood pressure, and deal with stress.
paradox
(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
while this may be true it must not be reason for faith.
for example fasting every friday may be good for health, not only to solve issues with kilograms but also to get rid of toxins in the body and it's good for all hosts of things in the body.
however the only reason for us Christians is to remember Jesus' suffering since he was crucified on friday, to say that I fast because of health would be counterproductive.
likewise to say I do this or that because of health and claim my faith requires me to do it means nothing else but fooling myself and fooling God or what ever you believe is true, because even though I believe, my practices prove my belief wrong. which is nothing but belief in vain because I could do the same without faith then, and have the exact same result.
joelr
Well-Known Member
False dichotomy fallacy.
Justification is by faith alone (Paul)
Genuine faith in Christ produces good works.(James)
Context, joelr!
That may be James opinion but it isn't clear. It also suggests just belief is enough.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28
Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30-31