There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[metis]

Since when is "two wrongs make a right" part of Judeo-Christian teachings? Bill Clinton and Donald J. Trump committed adultery, so I would suggest both did wrong based on those teachings.

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah the bragging about how he lived and still does and when Trumps same type behavior was condemned and guys join in like they didn’t act the same way.

Yes I get the accusation, you don't need to repeat it, now show me where I defended "sexual immorality that Trump got slammed for."

I asked you what specifically were the behaviours by Trump you were talking about, and you rolled past the request, so I cannot say whether I consider it immoral as I have no idea what specifically you're referring to.

FWIW I don't think promiscuity between consenting adults is immoral, why would I? Cheating on a partner or spouse is another matter.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Who says what’s immoral or moral? You?

Who else? You or your book? I don't need anybody but my conscience to tell me what is right and wrong. And if I did look elsewhere for moral values, it wouldn't be from the Christian Bible. It it's an ancient ethic that needs updating.

You’re defending sexual immorality that Trump got slammed for

No he is not. He's defending the choice to have multiple sexual partners, which is not immoral to him or me. Trump got slammed for sexual predation.

Yeah the bragging about how he lived and still does and when Trumps same type behavior was condemned and guys join in like they didn’t act the same way

Was that in reference to me? If so, I didn't brag about anything. I told you how I lived and the consequences of that lifestyle, which were radically different from your vision of what such a life brings.

Nor did I say that I was still polygamous, but would not consider it immoral if I were provided it was done ethically (not sneaking).

You seem to be the one having difficulty with moral issues. You don't make a distinction between various kinds of behavior that you are taught are sins. Somehow, you've equated criminal sexual behavior with legal sexual behavior because they both violate your biblical commands, which hold no sway outside of your religion, and precious little within it, either, as best I can tell.

 

[Sheldon]

Who else? You or your book? I don't need anybody but my conscience to tell me what is right and wrong. And if I did look elsewhere for moral values, it wouldn't be from the Christian Bible. It it's an ancient ethic that needs updating.



No he is not. He's defending the choice to have multiple sexual partners, which is not immoral to him or me. Trump got slammed for sexual predation.



Was that in reference to me? If so, I didn't brag about anything. I told you how I lived and the consequences of that lifestyle, which were radically different from your vision of what such a life brings.

Nor did I say that I was still polygamous, but would not consider it immoral if I were provided it was done ethically (not sneaking).

You seem to be the one having difficulty with moral issues. You don't make a distinction between various kinds of behavior that you are taught are sins. Somehow, you've equated criminal sexual behavior with legal sexual behavior because they both violate your biblical commands, which hold no sway outside of your religion, and precious little within it, either, as best I can tell.

I have little time for Trump, not least because he strikes me as an amoral opportunist, and though most prominent politicians would I think necessarily be rampant egoists, his behaviour strikes me on more than one occasion as sociopathic. However I personally wouldn't "slam anyone" because they were lucky enough to enjoy a promiscuous lifestyle, as long as its consensual and honest as you said.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have little time for Trump, not least because he strikes me as an amoral opportunist, and though most prominent politicians would I think necessarily be rampant egoists, his behaviour strikes me on more than one occasion as sociopathic. However I personally wouldn't "slam anyone" because they were lucky enough to enjoy a promiscuous lifestyle, as long as its consensual and honest as you said.

Some of his actions were consensual, some were not. For example he boasted on the Howard Stern show once that because he was direction of the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants that he would simply walk in to the dressing rooms unannounced, and some of the contestants confirmed this:

A Timeline of Donald Trump's Creepiness While He Owned Miss Universe

"Mariah Billado, Miss Teen Vermont 1997 told BuzzFeed, “I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here.'” Three other teenage contestants from the same year confirmed the story. The former pageant contestants discussed their memories of the incident after former Miss Arizona Tasha Dixon told Los Angeles’ CBS affiliate that Trump entered the Miss USA dressing room in 2001 when she was a contestant."

The Miss Teen USA contest would often have girls under the age of eighteen. He is literally a self confessed sexual predator:

" . . . in a 2005 appearance on Howard Stern’s show, Trump bragged about doing exactly what the women describe. “I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else,” he said."

Now if he just cheated on his wife that would not be my business unless he was openly hypocritical and charged other men with cheating. That happens far too often to think of it as a crime. But his abuse of power as owner of those pageants and at least one serious rape allegation pushes him from just roue' to abuser in my book.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You seem to be the one having difficulty with moral issues.

Again I don’t have a problem with moral issues, I know what is and what isn’t moral and decent now and thanks to God I have the ability to do what’s right.
On the other hand you do not have that ability, how can you say I think I’m morally superior yet you determine your own morals? Unless you know in your conscience what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral yet justify and harden your heart to the truth that you know or once knew.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again I don’t have a problem with moral issues, I know what is and what isn’t moral and decent now and thanks to God I have the ability to do what’s right.
On the other hand you do not have that ability, how can you say I think I’m morally superior yet you determine your own morals? Unless you know in your conscience what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral yet justify and harden your heart to the truth that you know or once knew.

You may have very strong moral beliefs, but saying that you got them from God automatically makes them rather suspect.

 

[Sheldon]

Again I don’t have a problem with moral issues, I know what is and what isn’t moral and decent now and thanks to God I have the ability to do what’s right.

If you think you need a deity to dictate what is moral to you, then you clearly don't know.

On the other hand you do not have that ability,

Cleary he does, you are simply assuming because someone doesn't share your blind adherence to moral diktat from an archaic religion, this means they aren't capable of morality. Could you even define what moral means?

how can you say I think I’m morally superior yet you determine your own morals?

It's inherent in the claims the posts you are making.

Unless you know in your conscience what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral yet justify and harden your heart to the truth that you know or once knew.

See, you think anyone who doesn't share your views can't be moral, but based on what beyond blindly following the diktat of an archaic religion? Anyone can blindly follow rules, even "good" Nazis managed that much.

 

[Sheldon]

ElishaElijah said: ↑
You’re defending sexual immorality that Trump got slammed for,

Have I, where?

Still waiting for you to justify this accusation?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Some of his actions were consensual, some were not. For example he boasted on the Howard Stern show once that because he was direction of the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants that he would simply walk in to the dressing rooms unannounced, and some of the contestants confirmed this:

A Timeline of Donald Trump's Creepiness While He Owned Miss Universe

"Mariah Billado, Miss Teen Vermont 1997 told BuzzFeed, “I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here.'” Three other teenage contestants from the same year confirmed the story. The former pageant contestants discussed their memories of the incident after former Miss Arizona Tasha Dixon told Los Angeles’ CBS affiliate that Trump entered the Miss USA dressing room in 2001 when she was a contestant."

The Miss Teen USA contest would often have girls under the age of eighteen. He is literally a self confessed sexual predator:

" . . . in a 2005 appearance on Howard Stern’s show, Trump bragged about doing exactly what the women describe. “I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else,” he said."

Now if he just cheated on his wife that would not be my business unless he was openly hypocritical and charged other men with cheating. That happens far too often to think of it as a crime. But his abuse of power as owner of those pageants and at least one serious rape allegation pushes him from just roue' to abuser in my book.

Yeah sickening, yet what’s the difference with what you do or think? Like you never talked trash, bragged about pick-up lines and how you got girls into the sack with your buddies? Or were jealous of the guys that did and could. Get real brother and honest with yourself. We were all crude some still are, if not you wouldn’t be into pornography.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Still waiting for you to justify this accusation?

Don’t need to, you and I both know

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Still waiting for you to justify this accusation?

Don’t need to, you and I both know

Thought so, you know you can't justify the accusation, but for all your moral self aggrandising you haven't even the integrity to admit when you're wrong.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Thought so, you know you can't justify the accusation, but for all your moral self aggrandising you haven't even the integrity to admit when you're wrong.

I’m not wrong, you did agree with the post and were saying how well written and communicated and also it wasn’t immoral behavior. Trumps trash locker room talk is the same as we all talked at one time or another, condemned him for that like you didn’t do the same, thought or did it. You make excuses like adultery is different than fornication or defrauding a female to get sex. You haven’t done that? What about pornography? Huh? If it’s subjective then so is any sin including what Trump did that you all sit in judgement of when you do the same thing or will. Then what, lie to yourself and change what is moral or immoral? Well God is the one who determines that, He won’t be mocked and you’ll have to experience those consequences yourself like I did, if you haven’t yet I’m surprised.

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah sickening, yet what’s the difference with what you do or think? Like you never talked trash, bragged about pick-up lines and how you got girls into the sack with your buddies? Or were jealous of the guys that did and could. Get real brother and honest with yourself. We were all crude some still are, if not you wouldn’t be into pornography.

This is so obviously projecting guilt here, it is astonishing anyone couldn't see it. Or perhaps you do see it, your posts in this exchange seem to barely conceal the anger that others can live a good life without the crutch of religion. So you feel you must dismiss them as immoral, and make broad unjustified assumptions about how they behave and treat people.

What is it you claim is immoral precisely about consenting adults having sex, or taking a drink? Most people can manage to do this without harming themselves or others.

 

[Sheldon]

You’re defending sexual immorality

Thought so, you know you can't justify the accusation,

I’m not wrong,

Then quote it please, I already said I don't consider promiscuity among consenting adults to be immoral, so quote me doing this.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I don’t have a problem with moral issues

I disagree. I just showed you some of your problem there with your inability to distinguish between sexual predation and promiscuity, which, of course you failed to acknowledge much less rebut. I told you how that goes. That debate is over. It ended as soon as one of us made a plausible argument that was not successfully rebutted. I could go on with your moral failings, but I really don't want to except the times you claim moral superiority.

I consider your behavior in this thread immoral, and those you are arguing with and calling immoral to be running circles around you in that regard.

I know what is and what isn’t moral and decent

I don't think you do. How could you? Your source isn't adequate. Do you need to me spell out the many ways that it falls short for 21st century life?

On the other hand you do not have that ability

I don't have the ability to determine what is moral? What should I think of the system of morals that generates people who feel comfortable demeaning the morals of others while holding what many outside their religion consider inferior values themselves?

And who do you think you are to be giving life advice to anybody else? You make this so difficult. I really don't want to denigrate you, but you keep assuming some kind of superiority. Sorry, but that's not my view of you.

how can you say I think I’m morally superior yet you determine your own morals?

I don't consider you morally superior as I just indicated. I don't consider you a moral equal. I said that you present an air of unearned moral superiority. You still are, which is why I feel comfortable letting you know how you actually appear. You'd be wise to keep those judgments to yourself. You are not respected for making them, nor is your religion.

Unless you know in your conscience what’s right or wrong, moral or immoral yet justify and harden your heart to the truth that you know or once knew.

You have no truth. You just have the teachings of an ancient people that didn't know where the rain came from.

Now, would you like to work on your manners? I really don't like writing posts like this. Recall the writing style of dybmh, which you praised, and who was treated respectfully by every atheist present? He was polite and humble. You, on the other hand, have turned everybody against you. If you quit judging others, I predict they'll quit judging you. If you treat others with respect, even if you feel none, they will do the same for you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I consider your behavior in this thread immoral, and those you are arguing with and calling immoral to be running circles around you in that regard.

Promiscuity is immoral, and you don’t determine morality. Are you saying you determine morality now?

 

[Sheldon]

You make excuses like adultery is different than fornication or defrauding a female to get sex.

What excuses, are you saying that consensual sex is as immoral as lying or cheating on a partner or spouse?

You haven’t done that?

What, cheated or lied, no?

What about pornography? Huh?

What about it, did you have something to recommend?

If it’s subjective then so is any sin including what Trump did that you all sit in judgement of when you do the same thing or will.

I don't believe in the superstition of sin, and I already explained all morality is subjective, it cannot be otherwise, and you keep accusing me of behaving the same as you or Trump, on what basis exactly? It sounds to me like you're projecting some pretty serious guilt, did you do something more than just sleep around?

Well God is the one who determines that,

I don't believe in any deity, so this is a rather silly thing to tell me.

He won’t be mocked and you’ll have to experience those consequences yourself like I did, if you haven’t yet I’m surprised.

Consequences for what? Why do you keep assuming I have behaved as you did? Whatever guilt you couldn't cope with, that forced you to turn to the crutch of superstition, that's your business, but I am able to control my behaviour without the delusional fear of hell, or the saccharine promise of heaven. I don't consider consensual sex to be immoral, the rest is just projection on your part.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you quit judging others, I predict they'll quit judging you. If you treat others with respect, even if you feel none, they will do the same for you.

I judged my own behavior as well, because it was same as yours is now yet God delivered me from that. Am I kicked out of the men’s group now for telling the truth about who we are in private without Christ?

 

[ElishaElijah]

What, cheated or lied, no?

You haven’t lied or cheated? Well haven’t you ever had 2 females on the line, or you were faithful to that girl only that you were having sex with? Doubt it. Let’s hear the justifications